Sure, they can do that. And some certainly do that. And if I'm on the receiving end of that instruction, if that instruction is sound, and lines up with Scripture, I should certainly follow it regardless of whether or not they are a hypocrite. Another's Christians sin does not excuse me from right living.
But we are not obeying these teachers in what they are saying, but we are obeying God and His Word and we are not submitting to their authority if they are living in error. We are submitting to God's authority according to His Word. We should not submit to their authority in building their ministry if they are not walking the talk or if they are living in error. We should not have fellowship with them and we should seek fellowship elsewhere who are truly seeking to follow the Lord correctly. For what do you think happened in 1 Corinthians 5 with a believer being kicked out for his fornication? We are told not to have company with fornicators (if they are a professing believer in Jesus).
You said:
Well sure we can. You're a hypocrite at times, we all are at times.
No. That's scary that you would said that. Jesus actually condemned the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and he asked them how can they escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23:33). The word "hypocrite" is used 7 times in reference to the Pharisees and the word "hypocrisy" once in regards to this question by Jesus.
You said:
If you think you are without sin, then you're deceiving yourself, and you don't actually know what sin is.
No doubt you are alluding to 1 John 1:8.
Question:
Does not 1 John 1:8 say that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves?
Answer:
What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).
In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,
"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).
In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.
John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.
You said:
...once we receive Salvation, we don't then have to do works to maintain it. We cannot earn or keep Salvation by works. You sound very works based.
That is not what my Bible teaches.
1 John 3:10 says,
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
"His lord said unto him, Well done,
thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).
Titus 1:16 says you can deny God by a lack of works.
James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen us to salvation by two things:
#1. Belief of the Truth (Jesus is the Truth - John 14:6).
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 4:3) (Galatians 5:16, cf. Galatians 5:19-21) (Romans 8:13).
While grace abounds (Romans 5:20), God's grace also reigns (rules) by righteousness (righteous living) (Romans 5:21).
For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
For the purpose or reason Christ died for us was so as to sanctify us and wash us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish (Ephesians 5:25-27).
You said:
Salvation comes to us VIA grace, by faith, and not by works, so that no man can boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about Initial Salvation and Ultimate Salvation.
In reference to Initial Salvation in Ephesians 2:
We are saved by God's grace through faith (which is a gift of God). God's grace (Jesus Christ) is the gift (John 3:16). How many times do you receive a gift? Once, right? Ephesians 2:1 says we have been quickened. How many times does this generally happen for a believer? Once usually right? Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith. Initial Salvation.
Ephesians 2:9 is talking about "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" because it is referring to the kind of work that a man would boast in himself in doing.
Ephesians 2:10 switches gears in talking about a different kind of work (i.e. God directed works done through the believer by our cooperating with the Sanctification Process by the Lord). For we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works before the foundation of the world. These are clearly "
God directed works" being spoken here in verse 10, whereas verse 9 is talking about "
Man Directed Works."
Why would Paul speak in this way?
Well, Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); A certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.
You said:
If this were true, then nobody would go to heaven.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW be there that finds it.
For what about Zacharias and Elisabeth?
5 "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." (Luke 1:5-6).
Please take note that I am not desiring to discuss Sinless Perfectionism here (Which I believe is not a salvation issue and it is putting away faults of character and minor transgressions - like going over the speed limit a little without thinking about it, etc.; I am referring to in this instance to the importance of our putting away or overcoming "grievous sin," which are things like: "Lying, hating, lusting, etc."). Believers need to meet the bare minimum level required level of holiness by putting away grievous sin out of their lives. For blessed is the man that endures temptation, for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life (James 1:12).
Also, what about the 144,000 (in the upcoming future)?
3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Revelation 14:3-5).
The Bible says he that does righteousness is righteous. We are told not to be deceived about this fact (See 1 John 3:7).
I hope this helps, and may God bless you.
Side Note:
Oh, and narrow truly is the way in one believing that we are saved by: "
God's grace through faith + Works of Faith." For the ony Trinitarian Sola Scriptura church that believes this way that is significant in size to a degree exists along the Eastern seaboard. They are called "Christ's Sanctified Holy Church."
Christ's Sanctified Holy Church-Holiness unto the Lord
All others believe in Sola Fide (or Belief Alone-ism) which can potentially lead a person to think they can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level (See Jude 1:4 in the NIV). For even you yourself have implied that we can be hypocrites on some level and still be saved (Which is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 23). Yes, there is God's grace. We can confess our sins and be forgiven of our sins to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). But we also have to forsake sin, too (See 1 John 1:7, and Proverbs 28:13).