Can one logically or scientifically prove the existence of the soul?

Can one logically or scientifically prove the existence of the soul?


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rako

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I sense that I am distinct in reality from my body and physical brain because I can observe them in the first person. This experience, my conscious subjective state, appears radically different from simply a lump of brain detecting the world or itself in a computerlike way. Viewing the world as me appears drastically different than some other brain viewing the world, even if our physical brains were exactly the same, since it would not be "my" self undergoing the experience. That this difference exists despite the two physical brains being physically the same tends to suggest to me the existence of my soul having a reality distinguishable from my physical brain alone.

Others have noted this same perception of the Self:
When I meditate and let thoughts come and go without attaching myself to them, what is the self remaining unattached and who is allowing the thoughts to come and go? It seems obvious at times like that that I am not my thoughts but then what am "I" if not an entity of some description channeled through and influenced by this brain and body? A brain is essentially a computer, but who's running it? There is no scientific explanation for consciousness and nobody has any idea why the sum of our brains components create it, there is no centre of consciousness in the brain.
CMV: The soul exists • r/changemyview

The Skeptics' answer that I've heard is that consciousness and the Self are just processes and illusions by the brain, whereby what really happens is that the physical brain lump detects (or is conscious of) itself, and this generates the perceptive that it has its own "Self".

This reminds me of the line of reasoning that the mind's experiences cannot be revealed in purely physical terms, and so this subjective experience must have a reality and existence that is not purely physical:
Conscious experience cannot be explained in purely physical terms

Conscious experience and awareness of sensations appear impossible to explain in purely physical terms. As Moreland writes, "The subjective texture of our conscious mental experiences-the feeling of pain, the experience of sound, the awareness of color-is different from anything that is simply physical" (52).

Take, for example, the sensation of pain-a mental event. Can it be that it just seems to be a mental event and is really a physical event or property? It seems that the answer must be no because sensations have as their very essence "the felt quality or sensory property that makes them what they are" (44).

But a felt quality has no physical features. This is evident from the illustration Moreland gives about a deaf scientist who becomes an expert on the neurology of hearing. He might be able to know everything about the physical process of hearing, but there is still one thing he would not know: what it is like to hear something. Since the felt quality of something-that is, the experience of what it is like--is the essence of a sensation, it follows that a sensation is not physical. Thus, there is a dimension to hearing (and all sensations) that is beyond the physical. And if there is something beyond what is purely physical, then dualism is by definition true. The Existence and Nature of the Soul
Still, while I can experience the electrochemical processes that show me hot or cold, and other senses, I am not experiencing a metallic metereological device's electronic senses of weather changes, but most would say that this doesn't mean that the weather device has a soul and mind. Likewise, even a rock or leaf can react to a raindrop and can show the raindrop's effects on itself. But just because something has an experience, reacts to, or detects something doesn't mean that it has a soul or mind, right? Conscious experience is different than just a mere sensation or reaction, but skeptics would say that this difference is just a matter of the physical object detecting itself.

I also think that the anecdotal evidence of ghosts who exist in an afterlife state also suggests that the soul exists in reality distinct from the physical body. However, skeptics argue that the existence of ghosts is not shown to be real.

Perhaps one argument can be that "meaning" is real and yet not physical, and so not everything that is real in the world is purely physical. Further, a being that creates meaning - an animal, its mind and its soul - must be real and yet not be physical either.
I think that this might be what the writer below was getting at:
Life is synonymous with activity. It is easier to understand how inanimate objects are moved by something already in motion than to understand how animate entities are moved. Animate entities have a source of immanent activity (coming from within)... In human [beings] there is an activity th[at] transcends physical sensation even though in its present mode of existence it is extrinsically dependent of matter (extrinsic meaning it is not dependent on matter for its existence).
This activity is called "cognition" the activity of the intellect, and volition, the activity of the will in man. they are both faculties of the soul. the soul is called spiritual because of the nature of this activity, which is not physical, but spiritual. Since it is spiritual activity, there is necessarily a principle of this activity, the principle is a spiritual soul, the elans vital

~ynotzap
How do we prove the soul exists?

This reminds me of the argument based on intentionality:
Intentionality

A physical object can have many relationships to another physical object. It can be close or far, above or below, larger or smaller than. But it is nonsense to think of a physical object as having a purpose or aim towards something. It would be nonsense to think of a collection of atoms intending to do something. So it does not seem that a physical entity can have the property of intentionality. Intentionality could only exist if there is something more than the physical realm.
The Existence and Nature of the Soul

Another argument recently has been that the soul exists in quantum particles and thus can survive the death of the brain, as in the form of information:
Consciousness resides, according to Stuart and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose, in the microtubules of the brain cells, which are the primary sites of quantum processing. Upon death, this information is released from your body, meaning that your consciousness goes with it. They have argued that our experience of consciousness is the result of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules, a theory which they dubbed orchestrated objective reduction (Orch-OR).

"Is This Proof That The Soul Exists? Experts Say Yes", Is This Proof That The Soul Exists? Experts Say Yes
But I think that this is not a very good theory. First, it would equate the soul with physical material - quantum particles. Second, just as the brain's memory cells could deteriorate and get rearranged as the body decays and is taken up by new natural and organic processes (eg. when eaten by a vulture), the same could happen to the quantum particles, thus making the soul not really "immortal", even if it could outlive the brain. Third, if it was material quantum particles, the soul would still be considered part of the physical brain, even if it could separate from the rest of the brain's physical lump.

Since the soul is immaterial, I am not sure that it is possible to prove whether the soul has a real existence instead of just being a product of some people's imaginations and myths.
What do u mean by the word proof? u mean whether it can be seen, touched, tasted, smelled or detected in an instrument? The qualities attributed to soul does not yield to any of the tests mentioned above. In fact, soul is said to belong to another dimension of existence which is not bound by time and space even. So there is no way to prove the existence of souls objectively. But this does not by any means rule out its existence. There are much more things that man has not known than what he has known objectively.
~Shunmugham
What is a proof that soul exists? Aren't we mere a biological entity? - Spiritual Discussion

One argument is that God and the soul are not provable through science and scientific material experiments, but only through experience:
But experiential proof is of a different order. Some have experienced the truth of God in such a way that they are left in no doubt that God exists, God loves them, they know it, and they are experiencing the tests of faith and the gifts God has lavished upon them.

Miracles might well constitute for some a kind of evidence that is experiential, if not experimental. That is to say, we are not expected to see a miracle in a science laboratory.

The point is that not all knowledge must be experimental in order to be worthy of our belief. There is knowledge that is deductive. There is knowledge that is faith based. There is knowledge that is experiential. There is knowledge that is intuitive.
~Charlemagne III, "How do we prove the soul exists?", forums.catholic.com/t/how-do-we-prove-the-soul-exists/370117/79
 

rako

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Yes.

Premise 1. The Bible contains absolute truth.

Premise 2. The Bible records God's making Man a living soul.

Conclusion. The existence of the soul is absolute truth.
Thank you for sharing. I understand that this can count as evidence, however I am looking for scientific or logical arguments other than the Bible's authority by itself, please. It's not that religious arguments are necessarily wrong. It would be helpful for me to have additional arguments.
 
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DavidFirth

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Thank you for sharing. I understand that this can count as evidence, however I am looking for scientific or logical arguments other than the Bible's authority by itself, please. It's not that religious arguments are necessarily wrong. It would be helpful for me to have additional arguments.

Understood. But God's word is absolute whether unbelievers choose to believe it or not, as you already know.

Unbelievers can believe when they see Christ in us. Other than divine revelation through the Spirit they will not believe, regardless of how much evidence you present to them.

Matthew 16
15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
 
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Eloy Craft

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Our soul has sensitive powers and powers of the intellect. the sensitive powers can all be traced to an organ in the body. such as seeing is a property of the eye. touch smell,.imagination memory the sensitive powers also include the sensations associated with sexual functions the urge to reproduce the power process nutrients. The vegetative power of growth. The powers of the intellect, the will, reason part of the memory. the power of intellection is spiritual and immortal. the powers of the intellect have no material organic source. Proofs are found in NDE experiences that are well documented and compelling. Blind people who have NDE's report seeing colors and they are able to compare such as "I saw a woman who's hair was the color of the shoe laces. reporting objects location accurately or a report of a shoe on a ledge out side the hospital on an upper floor and it was really there.
 
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dreadnought

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Ummm the soul is this misty stuff you can kinda..ummm...see through^_^
I used to think of it as the "room" inside me that I shared with the Lord. We could talk to each other there.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Historically talk has been made of the "rational soul", that is, the human capacity for reason, intellect, etc; it is the rational faculties of the human creature that makes human beings distinct from the rest of the animal world.

There is an inherent danger in thinking of the soul in Platonic terms, as a kind of "ghost in the shell", because that is basically heretical.

Instead the soul is a more nebulous concept that, in Christian thought, has often had both Hebrew and Hellenistic influences; in Hebrew thought the soul is breath, it is that which makes the difference between a living creature and a dead corpse--living things breathe. The Aristotelian ideas of the soul as the this-ness of a thing are also not entirely not present, and Aristotelian discussion of the vegetative, animal, and rational soul has existed in Christian philosophical discussion.

Thus the soul, roughly speaking, has tended to be understood as corresponding to animal life (broadly) and the rational faculties of man (more narrowly); namely the human soul refers both to our existence as living things as well as our capacity to reason, and through those higher faculties relate to God as creatures of worship; all creation bears God's glory, but human beings are uniquely described as bearing the Divine Image and as creatures who worship God.

All these concepts are effectively brought together to talk about "the soul".

If the OP is asking if there is any evidence of the existence of some sort of "soul substance" that exists alongside our flesh as us, then no. But that also would be a wrong way to perceive the idea from a Christian POV in the first place. The Christian doctrine of the soul isn't about some sort of misty, ethereal ghost-like self inhabiting our body; but the unique quality of human existence that is expressed in human consciousness, personhood, and which relates with God. It isn't an inner me, it is the fact of my cognitive, living, person (i.e. I am not just a lump of lifeless matter). Human beings are not enfleshed souls, human beings are ensouled bodies.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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gordonhooker

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My assumption is the word soul means describes the part of us that lives on after our physical body ceases to function. So to answer the question can we prove logically or scientifically the existence of the soul then my answer is no.

But I would love to hear from someone who can logically or scientifically prove the existence of the soul.
 
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Philip_B

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In a sense the question asks, is life more than molecules, is there more to our being than birth copulation and death? My view is that the take on this that most of us would have is to acknowledge that whilst matter matters, it is not the only thing that matters. In terms of the world population the view that saw we are molecules and nothing more is a minority view. A view that encompasses beyond simple physicality is where we derive views about direction, dignity, and justice.

All these kinds of arguments would once have passed for evidence, however that is not evidence in a harsh empirical scientific sense - which today is the only kind of evidence that many people want, yet if that is all you have it seems a world more baren that the world I know.
 
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Yekcidmij

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Thank you for sharing. I understand that this can count as evidence, however I am looking for scientific or logical arguments other than the Bible's authority by itself, please. It's not that religious arguments are necessarily wrong. It would be helpful for me to have additional arguments.

One of the best along the lines of what you're looking for:


He basically uses the Identity of Indiscernibles to make his point.

Identity of indiscernibles - Wikipedia
 
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Truth Lover

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Thank you for sharing. I understand that this can count as evidence, however I am looking for scientific or logical arguments other than the Bible's authority by itself, please. It's not that religious arguments are necessarily wrong. It would be helpful for me to have additional arguments.
Are you alive? If you are alive, you have a soul. The soul is the animating force of life. The difference between animals, plants, and humans is that we have a rational soul. The proof that you have a rational soul is that you are asking this question. Animals, plants would not ask a question like this.
 
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Man on Fire

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Heart and Soul

I would preface this with "Heart and Soul" Huey Lewis and The News.

  • Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (Deuteronomy 6:5)

What does Heart and Soul mean? Many people may have different definitions. Through studying your Bible and knowledge of some history and philosophy, you may learn The Character of God. What is God's definition of Heart and Soul?

Heart - God is love. (1 John 4:8) God's love is sacrificial. (John 15:13) Love is a two way street. Jesus bore his cross. Did you bear your cross and follow him? Heart could be taken to mean fighting for God. Someone with a lot of Heart could be said to not quit or give up. Heart could be tied to a man's "Fightiness." God's goal is The Kingdom of God. Have you been working to build the Kingdom of God? Do your plans and God's plans for you line up?

What is in a person's heart? Love of God or something else? God tests your heart.

Soul - Soul is intrinsic. Who are you, and what is your character? How do you identify yourself? Do you identify yourself as a child of God? Do you work to build God's Kingdom? Do you work to get to know God, and grow in Faith, and accept his Spirit, and build Godly Character in you? Your choices show your character.


Spirit - Spirits effect motivation. How are you motivated and toward what ends? The Bible tells you to test The Spirits. What Spirit is someone of?

A musical artist somewhere sold their soul. They signed a contract with a record company, and that company owns them. They do not get to make their own decisions. They are a slave. They sing the songs the record company wants them to sing. They go to the events the record company wants them to go to. There may be some sort of Secret Society in the background of this and rituals. Someone who sold their soul may have a particular character, and be of particular spirits. The fruit he produces may show which spirit he is of.

A new Christian goes to Church. He is baptized, and does what his pastor requires of him. He drops down his walls and allows in God’s Spirit. God has a plan. God’s plan is The Kingdom of God. God has plans for every individual on Earth. People choose God. As our new Christian grows in Faith, he associates himself and his identity more and more with God and building God’s Kingdom. God has a will. Man has a will. A man lets go of his ego and his wants and works to align himself with God’s will. The Holy Ghost is like a train at a constant rate of motion. Someone works to align themselves or board the train. Spirits effect motivation. The more someone is of The Spirit of God he tends to think about God and God related things, and is prone to God centric activities. God is central in his life.

Given you understand these concepts, your understanding and perspective or view of a variety of religious concepts regarding the soul may be expanded.

Material from blog: The Heart And Honor And The Soul | Christian Forums
 
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Man on Fire

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Soul have a lot to do with identity. A young person in the US may have grown up around a High School. As a young person, he knew he was going to that High School. The High School Mascot, we will say, is the Eagles. Young man grew up wearing Eagles gear, going to Eagles games, and his role models may have been some of the older boys at the High School. His identity and who he is, is tied to that School. When the school does well, like when it wins football games, our young man feels good. It cheers his soul? When they do bad, it hurts.

One day, his parents suddenly decide they have to move. A lot of that young man's identity and future and hope were put into a High School. His parents have to move, he has to go with them. His Soul is Crushed?

People who tend to love God, tend to be more God and Country. They tend to be Patriots. The identity politics and SJWs at Universities are Luciferians with Luciferian agenda's. People's souls and hopes and identities have been tied up into identity politics. A Kingdom Divided cannot stand?
 
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