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Can non-Christians be saved? (for liberal Christians)

Discussion in 'Whosoever Will, May Come - Liberal' started by Sérgio Junior, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Sérgio Junior

    Sérgio Junior Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem

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    I address this questions to brothers and sisters who are liberals, do you believe that people who don't follow Christianity and don't believe in Jesus (Eg: Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Baha'is, Animists Jews, etc.) can be saved Even if they never believe in Christianity? Or Salvation can only be found within Christianity??
     
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  2. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
    Rom 10:2

    For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
    Rom 10:3

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    Rom 10:4

    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10

    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    JESUS IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

    So, No they can't be saved without saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior and repentance.(Ephesians 2;8)
     
  3. mcarans

    mcarans Active Member Supporter

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    I believe that post-death conversion is possible enabling all to be saved and hence every knee to bow.

    I set out my view here:
    A new unified view of heaven and hell : cruciformity
     
  4. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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  5. Scann

    Scann Member

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    Well, those "all-paths-lead-to-God" believers also believe in Jesus as well but they won't be seeing Heaven if they believe Baal, Dagon or Ganesha is also God.
    John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    No you must have the second birth so the spirit and soul are changed, only born again believers are His according to scripture. There are many professing Christians going to churches every week who aren't saved, never mind the rest of the world. This is a matter that takes place at the heart level, it's written all throughout scripture.

    You can call yourself what ever, even liberal, but the Lord knows His true flock. Don't deceive yourselves. If you believe another gospel or truncated version of the gospel of Jesus Christ, you aren't saved. According to scripture. First you believe that, come to Him and then you must be changed. Once changed you will willingly profess the name of Jesus Christ, you will want the world to know. Sorry but I didn't write the book and He wrote the rules not me..
     
  7. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Jesus work on the cross was to save humanity and restor mankind to sonship with God.. Scripture makes it very plain as to how one is saved.
    Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
    Romans10:9-10
    Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    John 1:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Yes, they can be saved if they convert and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why the Gospel has yo be preached to the whole world

    Acts 16:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
    30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
     
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  8. Mustaphile

    Mustaphile Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is a bit hard to address this question given that the Sola Scriptura crowd has decided to brigade the thread in defense of their orthodoxy. :-D

    It is a question that goes to the very heart of liberal-minded views though. I'm sure other liberal opinions vary, as they usually do. That is the nature of liberalism. It values the personal conscience and seeks to give people the freedom to believe as their conscience leads them.

    For my part, I've deliberated using my own God-given mind and developed a view that is more embracing than some. I don't try to quantify it to the point of dogma, but just accept that everyone's path to salvation is a matter between them and God.

    I have a favorite author/philosopher, James Allen, who wrote a few paragraphs on this subject, which I will quote below (the book is in the public domain).

    "A mere theological belief (commonly confused with faith) will not avail. Beliefs about God, Jesus, Creation, etc., are merely surface opinions (derived chiefly from custom) which do not reach down to the real life of a man and have no power to bestow faith. Such beliefs may accompany faith, but they are distinct from it. Frequently, those who hold most tenaciously to particular beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible are most lacking in faith—that is, they give way to complaint, despondency, and grief immediately after some petty trouble overtakes them. If one is given to irritability, anxiety, hopelessness, and lamentations over the simple things of life, let him know that, in spite of his religious belief or metaphysical philosophy, he lacks faith. For where faith is there is courage, there is fortitude, there is steadfastness and strength.

    The opinions of men are lightly to be considered, for they are changing with every new breeze of thought. They have very little part in the reality of things, being the bubbles of a surface effervescence. But behind all opinions there is the same human heart. The "godless" are they who are godless, even though they may be members of churches and make a great profession of faith in God. The "godly" are they who are goodly even though they make no profession of religion. The complainers and be-wailers are the faithless and unbelieving. Those who deny or belittle the power of good, and in their lives and actions affirm and magnify the power of evil, are the only real atheists.

    Faith bestows that sublime courage that rises superior to the petty and selfish disappointments and troubles of life, that acknowledges no defeat except as a step to victory; that is strong to endure, patient to wait, and energetic to struggle. It perceives the benign law of Truth in all things, and is assured of the final triumph of the heart, and the kingly power of the mind."

    James Allen, "The Life Triumphant : Mastering the Heart and Mind" (1908)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  9. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Paul directly answers this in Romans chapter 2, verses 6-16, for which it's very helpful to have a few different translations, because of the wording. The NIV is good:
    Romans 2 NIV

    (but one reading it for the first or 2nd time may want to try several different translations and look up some commentary also).

    6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

    12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
    -------------


    Also, many interpret what Peter told us in 1rst Peter chapter 3, about how Christ descended to the "spirits in prison" to make proclamation to them (to mean bring them the gospel) to be not only for the instance given, those from before the Flood, but those being only an example, and it meaning all who never heard the gospel.

    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, d he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. ...
    1 Peter 3 NIV

    -----------

    This is meant to help add more of scripture, to the truths already stated above. What we know: mortals here are incompetent to judge the salvations of others.
     
  10. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    As I believe that being a Christian and following Christ is a matter of the heart and not simply saying the sinner's prayer at an altar call, and I do believe that a non-Christian who exemplifies the heart of Christ could be saved if God so chooses. When Jesus says he is the way, the truth, and the life, I believe it means much more than converting to the institution of Christianity, but truly following in his WAY, i.e. loving others as he loved, and that's the spirit of true worship regardless of whatever religion is claimed or not claimed.

    God is both loving and just, but I believe that God's justice is more restorative than retributive *because* he loves, and his love and his grace are much bigger than ours and all-encompassing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  11. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    First, this isn't a specifically liberal point. Current Catholic theology accepts the possibility of salvation for non-Christians. Wesley believed it. There's some suggestions in Luther, but I'm not sure that he took that position generally.

    Jesus seemed more concerned with whether people accepted his message, and lived appropriately for the Kingdom, than what they said about him. The point isn't saying "Lord, Lord," but doing what the Father wants. That doesn't mean we earn salvation. We don't need to. God is our Father, and he loves us. But it does seem to be possible to throw that love back in his face.

    We don't have a specific picture of how judgement will happen. But I think that in judgement we see both what God is really like, and what we've really done with our lives. In my view, as long as someone is glad to see what God is like and what eternal life is like, and repent, they will be fine.
     
  12. Sérgio Junior

    Sérgio Junior Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem

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    Thanks everyone for your answers.
     
  13. Sérgio Junior

    Sérgio Junior Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem

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    I also believe in this bekkylin, but I think some scriptures imply that justice is more retributive, because it is common to see in the Pauline epistles and also in the Gospel of St. John that those who do not believe in Jesus are under the "wrath of God."
     
  14. Sérgio Junior

    Sérgio Junior Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem

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    I read some of Luther's writings, but I don't remember reading that he suggested that, but I never read all his works.

    hedrick, I agree that Jesus seemed more concerned that people would accept his message and live apropiately for the Kingdom, but some scriptures seem to suggest that for God to remain in the individual he has to make a public confession for God to remain in him (1 John 4:15) and Saint John also states that in order to have eternal life one has to believe in Jesus (in a personal way?) (John 3:36).

    We have no idea how judgment will come about, but when St. John says that one who "doesnt believe in the Only Begotten Son of God" is already condemned (but condemned in what sense?), He is referring to future judgment and condemnation? Also I don't know if some people who worship Baal, Ganesha and Dagon (as Scann said) have a chance to inherit The Kingdom of God.
     
  15. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Well if you're familiar with Paul's teachings then you are well aware of all his time spent warning people to not fall for another gospel, or "another gospel but yet the same" ( additions or alterations to the pure). This is exactly what is being discussed in some of the responses you got. Also some good points made as well. But we need to be careful don't we. The true gospel of Jesus Christ is clear. He and He alone is the way to heaven, not He and Buddha, not He + anyone or + some further steps.....

    What's happening in the world is " there is a way that seems right to a man but leads to destruction" ( Proverbs 14:12 ). That's what happens when you loosen up or lose the scriptures and go with what feels right or seems right. You lose your compass and whole church bodies lose their way, yet it seems right to them.
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Scripture is not even required. Jesus created the Cosmos. If you believe
    that God created the Cosmos, you can be saved.

    Romans 1
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
     
  17. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Scripture describes your event with Christ, it defines the requirement, it doesn't substitute it. Coming to Christ is a matter of the heart, we believe at the heart level and are changed.
     
  18. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    I believe God's retributive justice is towards the sin itself vs. the people who are enslaved by the sin.
     
  19. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I’m not liberal, but I think the answer l this question is quite clear:

    I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

    John 8:24
     
  20. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There are some exceptions in John, but mostly the NT talks about the results of believing in Christ, but not what happens to those who don't -- particularly those without a reasonable opportunity.

    1 John 4:15 is typical: it talks about what happens when we believe. I think Christians do have an advantage, in that we are part of the Kingdom now.

    John 3:36 is interesting:

    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.

    Did John really intend the contrast between believes in and obeys? The Latin tradition translates disbelieves instead of disobeys. NIV translates "rejects," which may be right but blurs the distinction. Holman follows KJV and the Latin tradition. This doesn't seem to be a textual issue. See John 3:36 Greek Text Analysis. Even the TR has "disobeys." This isn't the only passage. E.g. Act 14:2. Many translators seem to think that this is just a way of saying "disbelieves," since refusing to believe is disobedience. I would say that the people referred to here aren't just non-Christians, but people who are opposed to Christ's way of life.
     
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