Can I be a good Christian?

[Svonaly]

Hey everyone

I am new to this forum and also quite new to Christianity. I see myself as agnostic, but I came really close to Christianity over the last month's.
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.
But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support. (He is 25 but close with his family and living in the same area).
I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying. Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)
Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this

 

[HTacianas]

Hey everyone

I am new to this forum and also quite new to Christianity. I see myself as agnostic, but I came really close to Christianity over the last month's.
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.
But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support.
I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying. Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)
Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this

I wouldn't pay much attention to your friend's mother. I'm not sure exactly where she's coming from, but you meet some strange people in the world. As to your questions:

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him?

No.

If <God> is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

He probably did have thousands of other options, but that is the one He chose. We have to be somewhat stoic in our acceptance of it.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions in prayer. But try not to be like your friend's mother. It's best for her to seek professional help for her son in addition to her prayers. Just as it is okay for you to ask questions of others in addition to your prayers.

 

[mukk_in]

Hello, welcome to CF.

God was only testing Abraham's faith and obedience (Genesis 22:12). Remember that Abraham was from a pagan land, and child sacrifice was common in those lands (here's a link, if you're interested: Child sacrifice - Wikipedia) and was probably of that mindset. God was purifying Abraham's faith and teaching Him that He's a life giver and not taker like Satan (John 10:10).

Besides, Abraham wasn't the one to sacrifice his son. Only God Almighty was qualified for that, and sacrificed His only Son Jesus for us. Atonement for sin required a sacrifice, i.e., someone who was sinless had to die on our behalf and take the punishment for sin upon himself (think of it as someone paying our debt or credit card bills on our behalf). This was necessary to satisfy God's judgment on sinful humankind, because God can't do away with His justice or not judge sin. Jesus was the only perfect, sinless, spotless sacrifice to atone for our sins (Hebrews 9, 10).

I hope that you'll find the Lord (or let Him find you), and yes you can be a great Christian .

 

[WESTOZZIE]

Hello in Germany... God is not tired of hearing your complaints. He is LOVE. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 tells us what He is like, read it and see His attributes.
As far as you being a good or bad Christian goes? How ridiculous that she said that!! Just forgive her and go on.
There really is no such thing as a good Christian anyway.
When you come to Jesus personally it is because you need Him. He is the Saviour...and you and I and everyone else needs saving right? Jesus said He did not come for the righteous(good people) but for sinners. So until we know and acknowledge that we are indeed sinners then we don't see our need of Jesus. If we think we are good people then why do we need a saviour? You and I have broken God's laws many times, that means we are deserving of God's judgement.
The penalty for breaking God's law is death!!
When Adam and Eve sinned against the Lord God made clothing from an animal to COVER their shame. That means that an animal died for them...an innocent animal. That was the first sacrifice for sin.
When Israel were in bondage in Egypt they needed a Saviour to rescue them....God told them to sacrifice a innocent lamb or goat without any defects in it. That was the first Passover sacrifice.
They were to put the blood of that sacrifice on the door posts and lintel of their dwellings so that the angel of death would see it and not kill any of their first born. The blood of an innocent animal covered the whole nation at that time and they were saved out from under the cruel hand of Pharoah king of Egypt.
God said in His law to Moses, that the Life(soul) is in the blood. So when someone sinned and was deserving of death a sacrifice of an animal --who had not sinned and was therefore righteous before God--was made. The innocent died for the guilty. The innocent blood, the life blood, was offered on God's altar to atone for the guilt of the sinner.
The righteousness of that animal covered the sinner's guilt before God--because a life was given for the guilty one's sin...and exchange took place.. a legal thing before God.
In order for the guilty one to live on...another must give their life for him/her. The lamb or goat or bull was used to do that.

But in the New Covenant...Jesus took the place of the innocent Lamb and died for you...the innocent for the guilty!
His blood , his life, his soul was poured out for you! For your sins!
So that NOW , because of His sacrifice which He willingly did, willingly obeyed His Father....not forced, but happy to do it for you sister....Now...you are NOT GUILTY before God for all your sins, because another gave His life to pay for each and every sin you have ever committed and will ever commit. You are declared innocent , righteous and holy all because of Jesus perfect atoning blood.
This is God's way.
Oh, and as far as God asking you to sacrifice your child.....God does not use fear and threats with His children.
grace to you,
Dennis

 

[disciple Clint]

Hey everyone

I am new to this forum and also quite new to Christianity. I see myself as agnostic, but I came really close to Christianity over the last month's.
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.
But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support.
I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying. Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)
Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this

The answers you have been given so far are very good and correct. I would only add that God wanted show us how much He loves us when He sent His son to save us. and Jesus proved that love on the cross. Regarding your friend people who are thinking about taking their own life are not thinking in their right mind and their values are not likely to save them because they are not using logic, they are looking for emotional escape. Do what you can to help your friend. Blessings

 

[Greg J.]

...
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

People telling you that apparently don't understand the simplest thing about Christianity. It is Jesus who saves, not you, and especially not how you behave. You might not fit in in Christian social circles, but you would fit in perfectly with God, who is loving, kind, forgiving, and accepting. God fully, 100% accepts anyone who is willing to accept Him as their Lord.

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.
But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support.
I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying. Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)
Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Ooook, so just so you know, the word Christian has as more meanings than there are living people. Based only on what you have written, his Mom has said more than one thing that indicates she has not been investing in her relationship with Jesus for the years needed to be a pastor IMO. I would ignore that and see her just as your friend's mom.

Your evaluation of science is good. All disease and hardship are the result of sin. We are supposed to fight the effects of sin. Knowledge of medicine is revelation from God. Satan does not both cause disease and cure disease (Luke 11:17-18).

He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 John 3:8, 1984 NIV)

For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, (1 Timothy 4:4, 1984 NIV)

(as long as the tools we fight with are not contrary to God's commands)

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

In the U.S. we can report potential suicide to the police. From what I've heard, they will send someone to the house and talk to them. I'm not sure what else you could do. Perhaps others will have ideas.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

No. Murder is immoral in God's eyes. Abraham lived at a time before God had revealed Himself in detail. It was a very tribal culture. God works within the culture we have created for ourselves (rather than change our culture first). We are commanded in Scripture to test everything we hear (read, etc.). What God has revealed in the Bible takes precedence over anything we might hear Him say into our ears. Anyone that says "God told me to do <immoral act>," has heard from Satan disguising himself as God.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

God's forgiveness was not made possible because of His power. The problem we all face is that human nature has been corrupt since Adam sinned. Additionally we then commit sins ourselves (a type of agreement that it was OK that Adam sinned). Sin = rejecting God. Because of God's love He did not want deal with us as justice demanded (punish immorality). He granted us time to turn to Him by faith (the time of our life) before He would judge us.

The reason Jesus had to die is because the penalty for our sin was death. God was born human so that He would qualify as a human, a necessary moral requirement through which He would then be able to pay for other humans' sins.

In additional to our need for God to forgive us, we needed something to get rid of our sinful nature, because physically dying with a sinful nature means we cannot withstand God's presence and would have to go to hell. Anything tainted with sin actually cannot be cleansed. We cannot undo the fact we sinned, nor can we stop the consequences from spreading.

When we accept Jesus as the Lord of our lives and deaths, since we are forgiven, God grants us a spiritual rebirth in Christ, so through God, our sinful nature passes away and He recreates us spiritually in unity with Jesus. Being joined with Jesus, it then becomes true that we died with Him (getting rid of our sinful nature), and because Jesus was raised from the dead, we were also raised with Him into new life. This is what the Bible refers to as being "born again."

So, the short answer to your question is that there was no other way God could morally forgive us without the necessary punishment/payment of our moral debt. Jesus died so we could be saved in a way that was moral to God.

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

You weren't impolite in any way. God is not judgmental and will accept us exactly as we are without change. There is nothing we can do to make us "more ready" for God. He loves us and helps us with everything behind the scenes (and sometimes overtly). God wants to give all of Himself to each of us, and tells us that He wants us to give all of ourselves to Him. But it is our choice. He won't override our freedom to choose. To the degree we keep choosing God in our lives, He comes close to us (James 4:7-8) and protects us, blesses us, and helps us with everything (1 Corinthians 13:1-8). And He really is real (see His promise in John 14:21; many followers of Christ know God is real, and the better they know Him, the more they love Him).

(You can look up any verses at www.biblegateway.com, including auf Deutsch.)

 

[Ken Rank]

First thing is I didn't read anything wrong with what you said about your friend. You had a valid concern and took it to somebody who could help. If you did anything wrong, you said you "argued" with her and perhaps you didn't need to take it to that level? But that doesn't mean you're a bad Christian, it means you have a heart and care which is the #1 thing God seeks, a pure heart.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

God deplores human sacrifice, which might open questions about what Jesus did so I should probably and quickly head that off now. He wasn't literally sacrificed like you see in the OT but he did sacrifice himself for us, there is a difference. Dying having known no sin was necessary to reverse the curse that was introduced by Adam. But again, offering oneself as he did is one thing, being a human sacrifice like the pagans often did is another.

My point is... God wouldn't ask you to give up your son. What God wants is for us to love Him to such a degree that we would do whatever He asks. But He won't ever ask something of us that stands against His character... and His character is based on love, joy, peace, patience, long-suffering, mercy, etc. What happened with Abraham was both a test for HIM as well as a prophetic picture for us. "God will provide himself a lamb" is what Abraham heard... and God did, in Jesus. By the way, Isaac... that little boy about to be sacrificed... was 38. Seriously... he could have over powered Abraham at any time but this shows his willingness to obey which also points to Christ. But he was 38... we know this because we know how old Sarah was when he was born.... and she was dead when Abraham and Isaac came back from the mountain and it lists how old she was when she died.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

The use of the word "sacrifice" is more metaphoric then most realize. Yes, he sacrificed himself, but he wasn't a human sacrifice. He didn't have his throat cut on the altar, blood sprinkled on the same, then quartered, roasted and eaten like, say, a Passover Lamb would have been. Paul used the wording within the sacrificial system to reveal the work of Christ as the entire sacrificial system (and Feasts, like Passover, Atonement, Tabernacles, etc.) all pointed to various aspects of Christ's work. Incidentally, Paul referred to himself as a "drink offering" but clearly he isn't, couldn't have been. He was saying that "like a drink offering" he poured himself into the ministry... he often spoke in abstract terms and reading it 2000 years after the fact, through the eyes of another culture, we sometimes miss little nuances like that. Not a big deal.

Now, why did Jesus do it, why sacrifice himself? We have two Adam's.... the one who was created in the garden and Christ, called the second Adam (1 Cor. 15:45). Both came into this world without sin, and both were tempted. The first gave into his temptation and the result was death for him and all who follow. The second and last Adam didn't give into temptation, died without knowing any sin, and since the grave was not designed for perfection, but rather, for death, it could not hold him and he rose from the grave. This action reversed the curse or at least, gave him the power to ultimately reverse the curse. So NOW we can be children of God and we have a promise of life forever because perfection tasted death in order to reverse the curse of sin and death placed on us. Jesus gave himself for us so this would be the result, he sacrificed himself for us so this would be the result... but again, he wasn't literally a sacrifice.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hey everyone

I am new to this forum and also quite new to Christianity. I see myself as agnostic, but I came really close to Christianity over the last month's.
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

Hi welcome to the forum and nice to meet you.

This type of thing is why we are all here, I imagine. To help one another in matters of faith..

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.

I'm sorry your friend is having problems, you sound like a good friend, he's lucky to have you.

But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support.

Depression is a scary thing, especially when someone is starting to discuss suicide so you did the right thing.

I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying.

She sounds scary, and very ignorant. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.. it sounds like its little wonder he is depressed and potentially suicidal.

Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)

God desires us to love one another as he loves us, he asks that we help one another and share the Gospel with the lost and more..

This God who wants us active and moving doing His work for us, certainly uses us, and the things we can do and invent, in the area of medicine as well.

Modern medicine is a gift from God, and nothing bad. People of faith utilize medicine all the time!

Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Don't listen to her. Your heart shows you would be exactly the right kind of Christian .. I'm sure God loves you very much.

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

No problem. Happy to answer.

But if you know your freinds home address, you might like to call his local police department and tell them your concerns..

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

No. God asks that we give of ourselves yes, but not like that. When we give of ourselves we might spend time feeding the homeless, or visiting the elderly and infirm, or spreading the Gospel to the lost (meaning telling others about Christ)

Sometimes maybe following Christ might mean our families get mad at us because maybe they don't like Christians, and we make a choice to follow Christ anyway...

Now that's a sacrifice, but it's a different kind than refusing a child medical care, which in this country is child abuse and I'm certain God agrees..

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

Unlike our children, God's son is still God.. Jesus is God in human form and together with the Holy Spirit, the 3 are eternally one.

It's like water can be fluid water, or when you freeze it it's a different form, ice, or when hot enough it turns into steam.. yet, all these forms of water are still all H20 and no change of state will change that.

Well with God, God never changes, He is eternally the same no matter what and nothing can affect that. So the three states of God are forever eternally distinct from one another yet are still One.. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, together they are One.

This might be a poor way of explaining but God doesn't change, He is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. So all three will always be distinct as much as they are all One.

Plus, only God can forgive sin. (See the passage in Mark 2:5-12, this shows that Jesus was claiming to both BE God, as well as proving His authority from God on earth)

So Jesus is God in the flesh, came down from heaven to create a path for your salvation and reconciliation to God..

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

No worries, this isn't anything similar to child abuse and God never requires such a thing.

Even with Abraham a ram was provided.. God doesn't ask the sacrifice our children.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

God is never tired of hearing from you. He desires a relationship with you very much and so sitting in prayer with God is a beautiful thing to Him

As for feeling like God tires of you well, sometimes that's what it takes to get your answer, just annoy HIM! Ha! He'll surely answer you then! (But be warned, He doesn't actually annoy so easily! Lol..)

From scripture - Luke 18:1-8

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’"

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

So see, we should always pray and God will answer, if we don't get an answer right away just keep praying... just be careful you don't overlook the answer when it comes. as God uses people too.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this

No problem! I enjoyed meeting you!

 

[Serving Zion]

Hey everyone

I am new to this forum and also quite new to Christianity. I see myself as agnostic, but I came really close to Christianity over the last month's.
Now I am struggling with my faith, due to current events in my life and people telling me that I wouldn't be a 'good Christian'.
So, I have a lot of questions and it's all quite personal for me- so I really hope that someone here will be able to answer my questions and help me...

About two months ago one of my best friends fell into a major depression (his mom is a pastor and he is Christian - actually he was the one who brought me closer to Christianity).
We are long distance (He's American and I am German), but I tried my very best to help and support him as best as I could and just make absolutely clear that I am there for him no matter what.
But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.
So I got really scared and as I am not actually around to protect him and make sure that he gets the help he needs I turned to his mom for support.
I showed her what he texted me and bagged her to get him professional help and make sure that he won't take his own life.
But she insisted on the 'fact' that her son isn't depressed and would never kill himself - because he wouldn't do something that selfish and depressions aren't a thing of God anyway.
Then she got really angry and said that I would just lack trust in God and that she told me before that her son would be fine and all I would have to do was praying. Now I don't know if I am wrong to believe that, but I always thought that as God gave us knowledge and science we should use it the best we can to save life's (I am C-sectioned myself, so I wouldn't be here today without science and so I really think that science CAN save life's although it obviously can't explain everything.)
Well, long story short, she eventually told me that I would be a bad Christian and that I should stay away from her and her family.

Now, apart from the fact that I am still terribly scared that my friend might commit suicide (as well as sad and broken because he refuses to talk to me since I had that argument with his mom)- I developed some questions on Christianity and I hope that someone here might be able to help me with those.

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him? Like he did with Abraham and Isaac? Because I doubt that I could ever do that ... I would rather die, fighting God than sacrificing another human being - especially someone I love.

And the second question is: If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross? If he is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

I asked all those questions in prayer, but I guess God is by now tired of listening to me and my impolite words ...

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this

Hi Svonlay! .. welcome to CF!

First, may I say that I am sorry to hear that you are having that difficulty with your friend's mother. I know that it is not the way Jesus behaves, to speak in that way and to drive a wedge between your friend and yourself. I actually know that something pretty serious must be going on in that family, with a mother's apathy toward her son's safety as you have conveyed it. I don't know what I might be able to offer you as advice for that just now, but that if you pray to God about it and let Him hear what your heart is saying, I am sure that He will want to help you with the outcome you are looking for

Now, as you mentioned that you are confused about the nature of the sacrifice.. yes that is serious too. In fact, so serious it's nearly unbelievable but it explains so much.

First, I want you to look at churches today and see whether you think it isn't obvious that there's something about them that's not quite Jesus Christ. What I mean by that, is when you picture in your mind who Jesus is, and who His disciples were, then you look at the churches, you must be able to see characteristics of the fact that they have lost some of the authenticity of the faith. In fact, depending which churches you look at, you might even find that you'd use quite harsh words to describe it (which is against forum policy, if it is identifying one or another).

So, there's something of the authentic faith that is missing, or corrupted, or has been displaced by an inferior way. There is a lot of scripture that relates to that, for instance there is St. Peter in 2 Peter 2:1-2, who was saying that false teachers were coming in among the early church, introducing destructive heresies. Many would follow their depraved conduct and bring the way of truth into disrepute. St. Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that there was coming a great falling away, and "apostasy", that had to come before the Day of the LORD would arrive. The most poignant is from Jesus, predicting that it would happen before He went to the cross: in Luke 19:13-15, He tells a parable about a noble man who went to a foreign land to receive a crown and return (He is speaking of Himself going to heaven through the cross and then to return), and He had left His kingdom in the hands of some of His servants. In verse 14, He says "But his citizens were hating him, and sent a delegation after him to say "we don't want this man reigning over us!". Now, that's pretty serious, much more serious than merely having the wrong ideas some 2,000 years later!

.. When you consider what all this is saying, it really drives home what St. Paul writes through Philippians 2, that he was no longer going to be able to teach the Philippians, and saying that when he is gone, they should work out their own salvation with "fear and trembling". He also says that he sends Timothy to help them, because he has none other like him, who looks out genuinely for their best interests and for the interests of The Lord - "all the others", he says, "are seeking their own".

Again, you might take that perspective for discernment as you are assessing the Christianity of various Christians.

If you look at this info that I wrote yesterday, where we see clearly that there is a type of Christian who is cut off from Christ, being an antichrist, then it becomes obvious to see that there is a lot of teaching in the churches that comes from the antichrist spirit. This is how you find that it is impossible to reconcile the view you have gathered of the reason for the sacrifice, with the claim that "God is love". It just doesn't add up .. and I know the feeling!

.. so it's really important to understand the reason for the sacrifice, and how the atonement works, in order to know that God truly is holy and not some tyrannical hypocrite as the devil makes Him out to be!

For instance, do some searching and you will find that the doctrines of Original Sin and Penalty Substitution Atonement are by no means the most reliable doctrines, despite them being the most widespread through Protestantism. Most of the reason for that is, as I have mentioned, the apostates who don't obey Christ Jesus, they are antichrists, and they make things up on the spot in order to win a debate .. and even at the expense of intellectual honesty (they think nobody can see that they are making things up). Then, if they happen to come up with an idea that makes sense to them and they get away with it, then they carry on teaching that new fantastic idea and it catches on with others who are of the same ilk. Of course, there is a language problem too, in that some of the meaning is lost and distorted through translation.

Anyhow, I have been on this path for quite some time, and learning is a thing that takes time - you need to stretch and shape your mind with one comprehension at a time, until you arrive at the place of an answer.. so amidst the many things I could say, I'd like to suggest you first look into the meaning of Daniel 9:24-26. That is a prophecy given to Daniel the prophet, of the time of Messiah's coming (approximately 500 years before Christ).

Daniel told them that they have 70*7 years (490) before the end of this age would come .. "to seal up the vision and bring in everlasting righteousness". He says that there would be 62*7 and then 7*7, leaving one more period of seven years before the deadline. He said that halfway through that seven years, Messiah would be cut off, the city and the temple destroyed, and then there would be a war until the end, "desolation is decreed" -- explains why the churches are so desolate, right? .. this has been a 2,000 year war.

There's another interesting prophecy in Daniel 7:13-18, where it describes the kingdom that is given to Christ Jesus, and if you look carefully you will see that there is a period of time where the kingdom is not in the hands of the holy ones .. because verse 18 explicitely states that the holy ones will take control of the kingdom!

.. interesting huh? It makes you think .. and we need to think, else all we are doing is trading our natural authority for a rote knowledge.

Another thing to think about, is question the assumption you made about God's reason for testing Abraham. The more you get to know who God is, who we are in relation to Him, and that there are others involved too (Luke 15:7), then you might wonder about God's reason for putting the idea to Abraham (eg: Jeremiah 17:9-10, Luke 14:33, Exodus 20:13, Jeremiah 32:35, Hosea 2:16, Joshua 24:15, 1 John 4:16, James 1:5).

 

[Tolworth John]

But his depression got worse and about a week ago he started to talk about suicide.

Even though he won't communicate with you tell him that he really scared you. That you would miss him greatly, that you do miss not being able to talk with him and that you only contacted his mother because of your concern for him.
If he is upset offer to apologise.

Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him?

God asks us to trust him, but he doesn't ask us all to sacrifice our children as proof of that trust.

Just trusting God through lifes troubles is hard enough.

If God is all powerful and all loving. Then why did he sacrifice Jesus (his own son) and let him suffer on the cross?

This is a big question.
In short God is just and cannot just ignore sin. His justice requires that a penalty be paid.
It was to pay that penalty that Jesus willingly came, suffered, died and rose again.

God avts in acordance with his character. He is Loving and Merciful that is why Jesus came, otherwise we would face Gods justice without any hope of mercy.

 

[PloverWing]

Svonaly, welcome to CF!

First of all, your instincts are correct about your friend's depression. If your friend is suicidally depressed, he should be seeing a counsellor or psychiatrist. If he's under 18, and his mother refuses to let him get medical help, there are still suicide hotlines here in the US (phone numbers to call if you're thinking about suicide), and he can take advantage of one of those even without his parents' help or knowledge.

So, I hope you can help me with this, because if God really sacrificed his own son AND asks us to be willing to do the same thing then I think I'll rather go to hell than ever serve him.

The father-son metaphor, as a way to talk about the relationship between God and Jesus, is a good one, and it's one that appears in the Bible, but the metaphor has its limits. You've found one of those limits: Taken too far, the metaphor makes it look like God is an abusive parent.

A more helpful way to look at the Incarnation is that God himself came to earth in the form of Jesus. God himself chose to experience a human life and a human death. In doing so, God transformed our lives and our deaths.

So don't picture God as the angry father who loses his temper and kills his son. Instead, picture God as a person who steps into our painful situation and suffers with us, feels the pain that we feel. When we come to the hour of our death, God will be there too, having already walked through that gateway himself.

 

[Svonaly]

I wouldn't pay much attention to your friend's mother. I'm not sure exactly where she's coming from, but you meet some strange people in the world. As to your questions:

My first question is: Does God really ask us to trust him to a point where we would be willing to sacrifice our own sons for him?

No.

If <God> is all powerful he should have had thousands of other options to forgive humanity?

He probably did have thousands of other options, but that is the one He chose. We have to be somewhat stoic in our acceptance of it.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions in prayer. But try not to be like your friend's mother. It's best for her to seek professional help for her son in addition to her prayers. Just as it is okay for you to ask questions of others in addition to your prayers.

Thank you so much for your answer! I don't know where she is coming from either, but I guess we all have our own personal story and she probably has her own mental problems to carry. I just hope she'll realize that right now she needs to be strong for her son and get him some help.

And I never meant that I would just pray - I am sorry if I implied that. All I was saying is that I bring those questions to God as well, so hopefully he will answer me in one way or the ohter - like through your answeres on this post
I never meant that I would only pray for my friend- although right now that's pretty much all I can do as he refuses to talk to me, but if I see any option to do anything else I will always fight for him. No matter what.

Thank you again for your answer!!!

 

[Svonaly]

Hello, welcome to CF.

God was only testing Abraham's faith and obedience (Genesis 22:12). Remember that Abraham was from a pagan land, and child sacrifice was common in those lands (here's a link, if you're interested: Child sacrifice - Wikipedia) and was probably of that mindset. God was purifying Abraham's faith and teaching Him that He's a life giver and not taker like Satan (John 10:10).

Besides, Abraham wasn't the one to sacrifice his son. Only God Almighty was qualified for that, and sacrificed His only Son Jesus for us. Atonement for sin required a sacrifice, i.e., someone who was sinless had to die on our behalf and take the punishment for sin upon himself (think of it as someone paying our debt or credit card bills on our behalf). This was necessary to satisfy God's judgment on sinful humankind, because God can't do away with His justice or not judge sin. Jesus was the only perfect, sinless, spotless sacrifice to atone for our sins (Hebrews 9, 10).

I hope that you'll find the Lord (or let Him find you), and yes you can be a great Christian .

Thank you so much for your kind words and taking the time to answer me

I was really not thinking about the different background of societies in this time ... The whole bible reading thing is much more complicated than I thought at first ;D Thanks for bringing that to my awarenes.

As for the sacrifice. So God COULD have done something else, but that would have meant breaking his own rules for justice and if he would have done that he would have messed up everything and so he had to sacrifice someone in order to obey his own laws? So he created Jesus to sacrifice him, as the only way to forgive humanity withoug braking his own laws of justice?
Not sure if I got that completly right ... But it seems logical to me

Thank you so much again for your answer!

 

[Svonaly]

Hello in Germany... God is not tired of hearing your complaints. He is LOVE. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 tells us what He is like, read it and see His attributes.
As far as you being a good or bad Christian goes? How ridiculous that she said that!! Just forgive her and go on.
There really is no such thing as a good Christian anyway.
When you come to Jesus personally it is because you need Him. He is the Saviour...and you and I and everyone else needs saving right? Jesus said He did not come for the righteous(good people) but for sinners. So until we know and acknowledge that we are indeed sinners then we don't see our need of Jesus. If we think we are good people then why do we need a saviour? You and I have broken God's laws many times, that means we are deserving of God's judgement.
The penalty for breaking God's law is death!!
When Adam and Eve sinned against the Lord God made clothing from an animal to COVER their shame. That means that an animal died for them...an innocent animal. That was the first sacrifice for sin.
When Israel were in bondage in Egypt they needed a Saviour to rescue them....God told them to sacrifice a innocent lamb or goat without any defects in it. That was the first Passover sacrifice.
They were to put the blood of that sacrifice on the door posts and lintel of their dwellings so that the angel of death would see it and not kill any of their first born. The blood of an innocent animal covered the whole nation at that time and they were saved out from under the cruel hand of Pharoah king of Egypt.
God said in His law to Moses, that the Life(soul) is in the blood. So when someone sinned and was deserving of death a sacrifice of an animal --who had not sinned and was therefore righteous before God--was made. The innocent died for the guilty. The innocent blood, the life blood, was offered on God's altar to atone for the guilt of the sinner.
The righteousness of that animal covered the sinner's guilt before God--because a life was given for the guilty one's sin...and exchange took place.. a legal thing before God.
In order for the guilty one to live on...another must give their life for him/her. The lamb or goat or bull was used to do that.

But in the New Covenant...Jesus took the place of the innocent Lamb and died for you...the innocent for the guilty!
His blood , his life, his soul was poured out for you! For your sins!
So that NOW , because of His sacrifice which He willingly did, willingly obeyed His Father....not forced, but happy to do it for you sister....Now...you are NOT GUILTY before God for all your sins, because another gave His life to pay for each and every sin you have ever committed and will ever commit. You are declared innocent , righteous and holy all because of Jesus perfect atoning blood.
This is God's way.
Oh, and as far as God asking you to sacrifice your child.....God does not use fear and threats with His children.
grace to you,
Dennis

Thank you so much for your answer and taking the time to write all of that!
Of course I forgive her - yes there are times in which I am super angry and want to punsh her in the face for treating her son like that, but then again: We all have our own story and I don't know much about hers. But I am quite sure that it is harder than I can even imagine to have your child telling you that he want's to commit suicide - so I am not judging her. She is acting out of fear and she probably doesn't has a good support network and therefore finds ease in pretending that the problem just doesn't exist and even if so just praying would solve it.

Now, for the religious part. Thank you so much for writing all of this down, the whole sacrifice thing always looked kinda weird to me and I really liked that Christians don't sacrifce animals (I am vegetarina and the sort of person who saves earthworms form drowning in puddles). But I never truly got the connection between Jesus and no more animal sacrifices ... So thank you very much for making that clear to me!

Also the part that Jesus willingly died is very improtant I guess, I definitly have something to think about for the night Thank you so much!!

 

[Svonaly]

The answers you have been given so far are very good and correct. I would only add that God wanted show us how much He loves us when He sent His son to save us. and Jesus proved that love on the cross. Regarding your friend people who are thinking about taking their own life are not thinking in their right mind and their values are not likely to save them because they are not using logic, they are looking for emotional escape. Do what you can to help your friend. Blessings

Thank you so much for your answer and support!
I was really like confused, because with all of this I absolutly needed my faith and like something to believe in and she took that away from me when she said I'd just leck trust ... So, thank you so much for your encouragement!

And right now I can't do much for him as he refuses to talk to me, but if he ever comes back I will do my very best to help him ... I don't think that he wants to commit suicide to escape the pain, I think he is trying to get his mom to care. It's a weird thing but I watched it in many people (of all ages), we all want to see that our parents care and are willing to protect us and if they don't we try to go to a point where they eventually DO care. I just hope he'll relize eventually that he doesn't need her. That she has her own problems and that there are acutally people who truly love him and care about him no matter what...

 

[Svonaly]

People telling you that apparently don't understand the simplest thing about Christianity. It is Jesus who saves, not you, and especially not how you behave. You might not fit in in Christian social circles, but you would fit in perfectly with God, who is loving, kind, forgiving, and accepting. God fully, 100% accepts anyone who is willing to accept Him as their Lord.

Ooook, so just so you know, the word Christian has as more meanings than there are living people. Based only on what you have written, his Mom has said more than one thing that indicates she has not been investing in her relationship with Jesus for the years needed to be a pastor IMO. I would ignore that and see her just as your friend's mom.

Your evaluation of science is good. All disease and hardship are the result of sin. We are supposed to fight the effects of sin. Knowledge of medicine is revelation from God. Satan does not both cause disease and cure disease (Luke 11:17-18).

He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 John 3:8, 1984 NIV)

For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, (1 Timothy 4:4, 1984 NIV)

(as long as the tools we fight with are not contrary to God's commands)

In the U.S. we can report potential suicide to the police. From what I've heard, they will send someone to the house and talk to them. I'm not sure what else you could do. Perhaps others will have ideas.

No. Murder is immoral in God's eyes. Abraham lived at a time before God had revealed Himself in detail. It was a very tribal culture. God works within the culture we have created for ourselves (rather than change our culture first). We are commanded in Scripture to test everything we hear (read, etc.). What God has revealed in the Bible takes precedence over anything we might hear Him say into our ears. Anyone that says "God told me to do <immoral act>," has heard from Satan disguising himself as God.

God's forgiveness was not made possible because of His power. The problem we all face is that human nature has been corrupt since Adam sinned. Additionally we then commit sins ourselves (a type of agreement that it was OK that Adam sinned). Sin = rejecting God. Because of God's love He did not want deal with us as justice demanded (punish immorality). He granted us time to turn to Him by faith (the time of our life) before He would judge us.

The reason Jesus had to die is because the penalty for our sin was death. God was born human so that He would qualify as a human, a necessary moral requirement through which He would then be able to pay for other humans' sins.

In additional to our need for God to forgive us, we needed something to get rid of our sinful nature, because physically dying with a sinful nature means we cannot withstand God's presence and would have to go to hell. Anything tainted with sin actually cannot be cleansed. We cannot undo the fact we sinned, nor can we stop the consequences from spreading.

When we accept Jesus as the Lord of our lives and deaths, since we are forgiven, God grants us a spiritual rebirth in Christ, so through God, our sinful nature passes away and He recreates us spiritually in unity with Jesus. Being joined with Jesus, it then becomes true that we died with Him (getting rid of our sinful nature), and because Jesus was raised from the dead, we were also raised with Him into new life. This is what the Bible refers to as being "born again."

So, the short answer to your question is that there was no other way God could morally forgive us without the necessary punishment/payment of our moral debt. Jesus died so we could be saved in a way that was moral to God.

You weren't impolite in any way. God is not judgmental and will accept us exactly as we are without change. There is nothing we can do to make us "more ready" for God. He loves us and helps us with everything behind the scenes (and sometimes overtly). God wants to give all of Himself to each of us, and tells us that He wants us to give all of ourselves to Him. But it is our choice. He won't override our freedom to choose. To the degree we keep choosing God in our lives, He comes close to us (James 4:7-8) and protects us, blesses us, and helps us with everything (1 Corinthians 13:1-8). And He really is real (see His promise in John 14:21; many followers of Christ know God is real, and the better they know Him, the more they love Him).

(You can look up any verses at www.biblegateway.com, including auf Deutsch.)

Thank you so SO much for taking the time to write all of that!!! I hope I won't forget to refer to any part in my anwer

First of all, thank you so much for saying that I don't need to fit into some religous (church) circle to be accepted by God - I didn't put that in my question but that was acutally another thing I was thinking about ... I don't really agree on a lot of things the German church does (it's all very institutional), and so I was struggling thinking about whether or not I should try to join a church - knowing that I would probably not fit in there. Especially as my family and friends aren't Christian and I would never give them up, or try to talk them into believing something that doesn't feel right to them. Not saying I am not talking about religion with them - just not in the way of 'You know, you're wrong on this?'

For his mom, I don't know how trained she is, I turly believe that she has her own mental problems and is probably dealing with a lot of fear and insecurity on how to handle her sons depression - so denying it is obviously not the best choice but yeah ... I guess it's a logical reaction to a situation she doesn't feel capable of faceing.

Your answer on my religious questions acutally sounds really good and logical and I just want to thank you so much for writing all of that down! It really means a lot to me, like in this time of fear and losing my friend I really needed my faith more than ever and when she took that away from me, it left me really insecure. So although I have wonderful friends and family supporting me I was looking for some logical answers on those questions that kept bothering me. Thank you so much for giving me those answers and taking the time!!!
You really helped me a lot

 

[Svonaly]

First thing is I didn't read anything wrong with what you said about your friend. You had a valid concern and took it to somebody who could help. If you did anything wrong, you said you "argued" with her and perhaps you didn't need to take it to that level? But that doesn't mean you're a bad Christian, it means you have a heart and care which is the #1 thing God seeks, a pure heart.



God deplores human sacrifice, which might open questions about what Jesus did so I should probably and quickly head that off now. He wasn't literally sacrificed like you see in the OT but he did sacrifice himself for us, there is a difference. Dying having known no sin was necessary to reverse the curse that was introduced by Adam. But again, offering oneself as he did is one thing, being a human sacrifice like the pagans often did is another.

My point is... God wouldn't ask you to give up your son. What God wants is for us to love Him to such a degree that we would do whatever He asks. But He won't ever ask something of us that stands against His character... and His character is based on love, joy, peace, patience, long-suffering, mercy, etc. What happened with Abraham was both a test for HIM as well as a prophetic picture for us. "God will provide himself a lamb" is what Abraham heard... and God did, in Jesus. By the way, Isaac... that little boy about to be sacrificed... was 38. Seriously... he could have over powered Abraham at any time but this shows his willingness to obey which also points to Christ. But he was 38... we know this because we know how old Sarah was when he was born.... and she was dead when Abraham and Isaac came back from the mountain and it lists how old she was when she died.



The use of the word "sacrifice" is more metaphoric then most realize. Yes, he sacrificed himself, but he wasn't a human sacrifice. He didn't have his throat cut on the altar, blood sprinkled on the same, then quartered, roasted and eaten like, say, a Passover Lamb would have been. Paul used the wording within the sacrificial system to reveal the work of Christ as the entire sacrificial system (and Feasts, like Passover, Atonement, Tabernacles, etc.) all pointed to various aspects of Christ's work. Incidentally, Paul referred to himself as a "drink offering" but clearly he isn't, couldn't have been. He was saying that "like a drink offering" he poured himself into the ministry... he often spoke in abstract terms and reading it 2000 years after the fact, through the eyes of another culture, we sometimes miss little nuances like that. Not a big deal.

Now, why did Jesus do it, why sacrifice himself? We have two Adam's.... the one who was created in the garden and Christ, called the second Adam (1 Cor. 15:45). Both came into this world without sin, and both were tempted. The first gave into his temptation and the result was death for him and all who follow. The second and last Adam didn't give into temptation, died without knowing any sin, and since the grave was not designed for perfection, but rather, for death, it could not hold him and he rose from the grave. This action reversed the curse or at least, gave him the power to ultimately reverse the curse. So NOW we can be children of God and we have a promise of life forever because perfection tasted death in order to reverse the curse of sin and death placed on us. Jesus gave himself for us so this would be the result, he sacrificed himself for us so this would be the result... but again, he wasn't literally a sacrifice.

First of all thank you so much for your answer!! Y'all are really helping me a lot!

For arguing with her ... Yes, that was probably wrong. I didn't intended to argue her, but then again there is no way to tell a mother that she is treating her son wrongly without it sounding offensive. And she deffinitly understood it that way and that's why I used that word. I tried to make it as clear as possible that I only told her all of that to help him and because I was seriously concerned, but it's also true that at some point I was just angry and done with her saying that her son would just be dealing with normal everyday problems - so I am sure I didn't watched my tone as closely as I should have. (Plus it's always hard for me to get the right tone while writing in English anyway... Or at least I am never quite sure if I got it correctly).

So, God would never ask me to sacrifice one of my friends? Or any other human being? And so it also doesn't matter that I would never do it? I can go to him saying 'I trust in you and I willingly follow all your orders, no matter what' - knowing that he'd never ask me for those things I couldn't do?
And I never saw Isaac as a middle aged man Thanks for bringing that to my awareness.

And what you're saying about how the words are used and understood differnetly now is acutally making a lot of sense. It's funny how I never really thought about that - well also kinda sad considering that I majored in linguistics for a year I feel stupid now ... But in a good way, the kind of feeling stupid that makes you smarter in the end.

Thanks for your whole message again!! You really brought some further understanding to my mind

 

[Svonaly]

Hi welcome to the forum and nice to meet you.

This type of thing is why we are all here, I imagine. To help one another in matters of faith..



I'm sorry your friend is having problems, you sound like a good friend, he's lucky to have you.



Depression is a scary thing, especially when someone is starting to discuss suicide so you did the right thing.



She sounds scary, and very ignorant. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.. it sounds like its little wonder he is depressed and potentially suicidal.



God desires us to love one another as he loves us, he asks that we help one another and share the Gospel with the lost and more..

This God who wants us active and moving doing His work for us, certainly uses us, and the things we can do and invent, in the area of medicine as well.

Modern medicine is a gift from God, and nothing bad. People of faith utilize medicine all the time!



Don't listen to her. Your heart shows you would be exactly the right kind of Christian .. I'm sure God loves you very much.



No problem. Happy to answer.

But if you know your freinds home address, you might like to call his local police department and tell them your concerns..



No. God asks that we give of ourselves yes, but not like that. When we give of ourselves we might spend time feeding the homeless, or visiting the elderly and infirm, or spreading the Gospel to the lost (meaning telling others about Christ)

Sometimes maybe following Christ might mean our families get mad at us because maybe they don't like Christians, and we make a choice to follow Christ anyway...

Now that's a sacrifice, but it's a different kind than refusing a child medical care, which in this country is child abuse and I'm certain God agrees..



Unlike our children, God's son is still God.. Jesus is God in human form and together with the Holy Spirit, the 3 are eternally one.

It's like water can be fluid water, or when you freeze it it's a different form, ice, or when hot enough it turns into steam.. yet, all these forms of water are still all H20 and no change of state will change that.

Well with God, God never changes, He is eternally the same no matter what and nothing can affect that. So the three states of God are forever eternally distinct from one another yet are still One.. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, together they are One.

This might be a poor way of explaining but God doesn't change, He is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. So all three will always be distinct as much as they are all One.

Plus, only God can forgive sin. (See the passage in Mark 2:5-12, this shows that Jesus was claiming to both BE God, as well as proving His authority from God on earth)

So Jesus is God in the flesh, came down from heaven to create a path for your salvation and reconciliation to God..



No worries, this isn't anything similar to child abuse and God never requires such a thing.

Even with Abraham a ram was provided.. God doesn't ask the sacrifice our children.



God is never tired of hearing from you. He desires a relationship with you very much and so sitting in prayer with God is a beautiful thing to Him

As for feeling like God tires of you well, sometimes that's what it takes to get your answer, just annoy HIM! Ha! He'll surely answer you then! (But be warned, He doesn't actually annoy so easily! Lol..)

From scripture - Luke 18:1-8

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’"

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

So see, we should always pray and God will answer, if we don't get an answer right away just keep praying... just be careful you don't overlook the answer when it comes. as God uses people too.



No problem! I enjoyed meeting you!

First of all thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this down!!!

One thing I should probably have mentioned in my original post - my friend is 25 and I am 19, so it's not acutally child abuse. I think it's kinda a childhood problem coming up again though, as he moved closer to his parents again a couple of months ago, after being futher away for some years. I believe in supporting each other in a family though, and that's why I still see her as responsible for her friend.

But yeah what you said about it kinda making sense that he is depressed with her as a mother - that's something that came to my mind too. Like I didn't understood it all at first, I just saw my friend changing and becoming an other person and pushing me away - saying that I'd only make things worse. Now I guess it's all based on this conflict with his mom and I believe he is trying to make her care and get some attention ... It doesn't matter to him how often I tell him that he is important and wonderful the way he is, I acutally believe that when he said that I would make things worse he meant that in contrast to me it only became more clear how less his mom cared about him and so I guess that made things worse. In a weird way.

I don't know his home address, he's been moving a lot in the last months as they are struggling financially and are planning to move to another state anyway.
But I wouldn't do that anyway... He made it quite clear that for now he doesn't want me in his life and all of this is something he has to figure out with himself and his mom. I just hope that some day he will realize that he doesn't need his moms approvel that much ( but that's easy for me to say - coming from a family in which I am always loved no matter what and with a mom being woried about me as soon as I sneeze ;D)

For losing our families because they don't agree on us following Christ ... My parents are kinda sceptical about me getting closer to Christianity, but they know that I am a grown up and leave me my freedom. They would tell me if they'd feel like I would do something immoral or make a stupid decission, but they would never keep me away from making my own decisions on faith. But to be honest, I don't konw if I would be willing to follow Christ if it would mean abonding my family. Also the bible commands us to honour our parents, so I would never tell them that they are stupid for not being Christian or doing something wrong - I might talk to them about religion and discuss things, but at the end of the day we never know who is right and who is wrong and we all just need to follow the path God created for us.

So God didn't acutally sacrifice his son but himself? That really changes everything ... If that is true that's something I can absolutly accept and apprechiate morally. Thanks for saying that! It makes a log of sense and I never looked at it that way!! Thank you so much

And thanks for saying that it's okay to pray even if I am annoyed and don't feel like honoring God the way I probably should ... And I think he is answering me. All those responds to my post are acutally much more than I ever expected and I am sure God is speaking through some of you!! So thanks for being there and supporting me.

But I'll deffinitly should work on my prayer routine ... Well it was good until all of this happend. This morning when I woke up and wanted to pray out of routine, I just went like 'F'ck you God, I am not going to talk to you, until you stopped treating my friends like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].' ;D So, I probably should go back to some more respect and being grateful for all the wonderful things he is still giving me everyday. Including the support of so many amazing people!!

Thank you so much again, your answer really helped me a lot!!!

 

[Ken Rank]

So, God would never ask me to sacrifice one of my friends? Or any other human being? And so it also doesn't matter that I would never do it? I can go to him saying 'I trust in you and I willingly follow all your orders, no matter what' - knowing that he'd never ask me for those things I couldn't do?

A holy and righteous God will not ask somebody to sin. He would be guilty for causing us to sin, which would make His action unrighteous. The Abraham thing, unfortunately, has probably been the cause of for some to turn away from God. But it isn't what they think it is, too bad they weren't more patient before walking away.

And what you're saying about how the words are used and understood differnetly now is acutally making a lot of sense. It's funny how I never really thought about that - well also kinda sad considering that I majored in linguistics for a year I feel stupid now ... But in a good way, the kind of feeling stupid that makes you smarter in the end.

Don't feel stupid, just blame it on our culture. We live in a society where things are right or wrong, black or white, and very very (painfully) literal. It's easy for someone to see that despite the bible calling God a "rock" that we can't go out into our driveway and pick up God. The idea of 'rock' is meant to depict His steadfastness. Same with, say... "God is our fortress." Obviously we don't drive to Ft. Knox to find God and gain His protection... the word "fortress" is used metaphorically to depict His protective tendencies of those who belong to Him. But when we see "sacrifice" we take it literal and actually have God sending His son to do something that He called an abomination. And the even sad part is I have to be careful how I say this because of folks being so emotionally tied to certain ideas in Scripture. That is why I was careful to say, "he sacrificed himself" but that "he isn't a literal OT type sacrifice."

Many blessings... it will all work itself out.

 

[Svonaly]

Svonaly, welcome to CF!

First of all, your instincts are correct about your friend's depression. If your friend is suicidally depressed, he should be seeing a counsellor or psychiatrist. If he's under 18, and his mother refuses to let him get medical help, there are still suicide hotlines here in the US (phone numbers to call if you're thinking about suicide), and he can take advantage of one of those even without his parents' help or knowledge.



The father-son metaphor, as a way to talk about the relationship between God and Jesus, is a good one, and it's one that appears in the Bible, but the metaphor has its limits. You've found one of those limits: Taken too far, the metaphor makes it look like God is an abusive parent.

A more helpful way to look at the Incarnation is that God himself came to earth in the form of Jesus. God himself chose to experience a human life and a human death. In doing so, God transformed our lives and our deaths.

So don't picture God as the angry father who loses his temper and kills his son. Instead, picture God as a person who steps into our painful situation and suffers with us, feels the pain that we feel. When we come to the hour of our death, God will be there too, having already walked through that gateway himself.

Thank you so much for your answer!!!
He is actually 25, I should probably have made that clear in my original post (I am 19). I just turned to his mom, because he lives close to them and has a very close relationship to his family. Also I truly believe that in a family we are responsible for helping each other in such times, no matter how old we are...

And he could deffinitly get help .. I was trying to get him into at least reading some books, as he doesn't wanted to see a therapist. But at least for now he follows his mothers orders and tries to get everything solved by only praying. I actually think that all of this is like a childhood problem of him and his mother and he somehow has to figure out for himself that his worth isn't definded by wether or not his mom cares about him ... I hope he will eventually see that there are actually people who love him and are willing to help him - even if his mom might not be one of them.

And thank you so much for making this son/father misunderstanding clear to me! One of the previous responds already said someting similar, but it's very good for me to read that again!! I feel like that's exacly what I missunderstood so thank you so much for telling me!!

You truly helped me a lot, in all of this I really need my faith and when she told me that I would leck trust, she kind took that away from me ... So I am just grateful that I got your wonderful answer and you all are really helping me more than you probably know!!