Can God save a closed heart?

[sola fide]

I take it you don't believe in the doctrine of total depravity.(?)

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by sola fide
It's not the heart of stone I describe, it's the heart of stone the Bible describes.

Ezekiel 36:26-
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."

Soli Deo gloria!

to this I give you props.  Well said.

 

[SnuP]

I believe that we desire to do right, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

 

[sola fide]

No problem man...I used to be a full-fledged arminian...I thought we had complete control of our lives. But through my last year of study, the scriptures have shown me to be wrong. God is always in control.

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[sola fide]

If we desire to do right, then Rom. 3:10 is false, and so is the Psalm that it quotes...it says that there is none that seeks after God....v.12 They have all turned aside...There is none that does good, no, not even one.

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by sola fide
If we desire to do right, then Rom. 3:10 is false, and so is the Psalm that it quotes...it says that there is none that seeks after God....v.12 They have all turned aside...There is none that does good, no, not even one.

Soli Deo gloria!

Accually it is correct.  Men want to do right but without help (pride). this is the main reason that christians close their heart and lose their reward.

 

[sola fide]

Men want to do right? Snup, I admire your convictions...but that is just plain false. Without proper training no one wants to do right. A child doesn't have to be taught to lie, steal, etc...it is part of our carnal nature. We naturally oppose the goodness and holiness of God.
I wondered around in confusion as to why some people act in the awful ways that they do for a long time.
But once I came to the Biblical understanding that we are born corrupt, i.e. in sin, it opened my eyes to something I never could have understood.

You must diagnose a condition before it can be treated. Our condition is that of depravity (corruption caused by the fall). Until that condition is understood, how can it be treated?

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[SnuP]

I work with many who are not saved, and I find them doing right without my asking.

 

[sola fide]

Snup, think about this. This is hypothetical, so bear with me.
You have 2 unsaved people-
1 lives a healthy lifestyle, free from drugs, alcohol, permiscuous sex, etc...
The 2nd lives a horrid lifestyle...He is addicted to heroin, is a hopeless alcoholic, has sex with anything that walks, smokes cigarettes, etc...

The 2nd becomes saved and drops all of the habits except the smoking.

To the naked eye, the 1st one, who is still unsaved looks to be more righteous that the sencond(who is saved).

Why? because externally, the redeemed one smokes and the lost one doesn't have any external blemishes.

But God judges the heart, not the body. The 2nd one kicked many bad habits, but hasn't quite broken his addiction to cigarettes....

does that mean that the unsaved person is righteous?...by no means
let's be glad that God quickens the dead and forgives our sins. A Christian and a closed heart to not go hand in hand.

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by SnuP
I believe that we desire to do right, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

------------------------------------------------

A Christian and a closed heart to not go hand in hand.

Correct, but you and I both know alot of christians with closed hearts in one area or another (You may think that Andrew and I have a closed heart about some of these subjects).  These hearts are contrary to the will of God and He does not force us to change.  So what will he do.

-------------------------------------------------

And with that I must say good night, and God bless all three of you.

 

[sola fide]

No I don't think you have a closed heart on the subject. Neither do I think that I have a closed heart toward your view point.
We are obviously seeking the truth, seeking to share it and seeking to learn it. That hardly neccesitates a closed heart.
A closed heart would not seek after the things of God. That's why I have a hard time believing that a truly regenerate Christian could have a closed heart.

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[SnuP]

Try it this way. Forget about whether or not you believe it is possible for a christian to close his heart. Lets suppose for a moment that it is possible. If a person dies with this condition, will God redeem the heart of that man, even though he died closed off to God.

If God does redeem that man, won't God have violated the will of that man.

All hypothetically of cource.

 

[LouisBooth]

Read romans 11:28-29

 

[SnuP]

For a guy who talks about context alot you sure toke that one out.

Any ways your not following the directions. Your stance has been firmly established, not what about the hypothetical.

 

[LouisBooth]

"For a guy who talks about context alot you sure toke that one out."

Nope, didn't take context out of it at all. Read the passage and you will see that I didn't. He is clearly saying that in terms of the gospel they are our enemies but in terms of being elect they are like us (ie elected) why? then he makes an all inclusive statement about jews and gentiles, saying you can't give up God's gifts (he is refering to being elected according to the context). thus OSAS.

 

[SnuP]

An interesting point of view, I'll look into it deeper.

But, you have still failed to answer the question put to you.

 

[LouisBooth]

"not what about the hypothetical."

along the same lines as what if Adam never sinned. Nothing we can address realistically.

 

[SnuP]

just asking for your biblical opinion. surly you could come up with something.

 

[SnuP]

"Ken Hamilton"

"SnuP"

Don't just make a blanket statement, give me some scripture.

(Acts 16:14 NKJV) Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

What God opens will not be closed.

This scripture does not relate to Saved's statement, but I will use it. The woman in question already had a partially opened heart (ie "who worshiped God"), but her heart was closed to doing the things spoken by Paul. But the fact that she worshiped Him gave God enough room to come in and help her change. i.e. She was opened to hear from God but not opened to hear from Paul, but God intervened and opened her heart.

I do the same thing when I try to reconsile some who are in disput. If I can get them to see from the other person perspective then I will have successfully opened their heart. I opened up their heart by persuasion. God does the same thing but He's ways are higher so He see more success. But remember that the will can not be violated, so if the person refuses God's move then they are determined to stay in their condition and God will not make them repent.

If you say that God can force the heart of some one to open or stay openned then you are saying that God is forcing them to repent. God will not do that because then their love will be false. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

 

[LouisBooth]

"just asking for your biblical opinion. surly you could come up with something"

Okay, What is christ was sick?