Can God look upon sin ?

[Jesus is YHWH]

Here is a question for the group which I believe Christianity has been duped into believing a false concept of God.

Many preachers, teachers, pastors, theologians etc..... say the following:

God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's.

Is this biblical ?

ABSOLUTELY NOT !

Has anyone ever read the opening chapter of Job ?

What we read and find happening there is a conversation between satan ( the epitome of sin,evil etc..) and God over His protection of His servant Job. So we see this conversation between God and satan in heaven over Job. satan is allowed into the very presence of God.

Jesus is fully God and was taken away into the wilderness to be tested by satan. They were " face to face" speaking to one another and Jesus was tested/tempted by satan.

Jesus washed judas feet knowing he was about to go and make that treacherous deal with the leaders to betray Christ for 30 pieces of silver. Jesus said it would of been better that person never have been born than to be the one who betrayed Him.

Jesus lived among sinful people His entire life as God Incarnate. He came to save sinners. He lived with them, ate with them, healed them, loved them etc.....and eventually died for them even forgiving those who mocked and crucified Him on the cross.

So God does not turn away from sin nor sinners but in fact pursues us, loves us and died for us.

Paul was KILLING christians( horrific sins) yet Jesus knocks Saul off of his horse and asks him why are you persecuting Me ?

Jesus pursued Saul who became Paul and converted him on the road to Damascus.

These are just a few things for us to think about and have our minds renewed about what is true about God and what is not true.

Do you agree or disagree ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Sabertooth]

God can LOOK upon sin; He is omniscient [pantoscopic?].

1. He cannot/will not abide it in Heaven.
2. Past a certain intensity, Holiness vaporizes sin (and the unredeemed sinner), even if He just wanted to give them a hug [Exodus 33:17-23].

(You cannot go to Heaven if you are allergic to God. We are all born with that "allergy.")

 

[public hermit]

Do people think God cannot look upon sin because of Habakkuk 1:13?

"Your eyes are too pure to behold evil, and you cannot look on wrongdoing; why do you look on the treacherous, and are silent when the wicked swallow those more righteous than they?"

That's the only passage I can think of that might support that claim, but it doesn't offer the best support since the prophet is simultaneously saying God can't look on evil and yet sees what evil people do.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Psalm 22
My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my [c]groaning.
2 O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.
3 Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.
4 In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.
5 To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me [g]sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
8 “Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

9 Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
10 Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.

11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.
13 They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within [l]me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me [m]in the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;
18 They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.

19 But You, O Lord, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.

22 I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you of Israel.
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

25 From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.
26 The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
30 Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.
31 They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.

12 facts about God and Jesus last words. Some people teach when Jesus said My God My God why have Thou forsaken Me that the Father departed, deserted and turned His back upon His Son to bear Gods wrath on the cross. But is this teaching biblical? Is it true?

1-God is Triune
2- The Trinity cannot be broken, separated or abandoned.
3- God doesn't send His wrath against God
4- Jesus is God
5- Context has meaning and all the gospel accounts work together along with the OT quotations
6- Jesus words come from Psalm 22
7- Psalm 22 must be understood in the context of the crucifixion
8- Jesus last words were this " Father into Thy hands I commit my Spirit "
9- Psalm 22 has numerous fulfillment's during His Crucifixion
10- Psalms 22 and the gospels say He was mocked, despised, hurled insults, cast lots, divided His clothes, let God rescue Him etc......
11- Psalm 22:24 also says God has not despised Him nor hidden His face from Him and listened to His cry for help
12- Psalm 22:24 coincides with Jesus trust and relationship with the Father saying into your hands I commit MY Spirit.

God is LOVE. In Love the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John tells us.

We must understand how Gods attributes all work in harmony together not in opposition to each other. All of Gods attributes and His character flow from His Love for God is Love.

God being Love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is Love and that Love is perfect lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love by definition has to be expressed with another which is why a unitarian god cannot be Love. Love requires another to share and express that Love and it’s what we see with the Triune God. God is Love before anyone/anything existed.

Before creation there was no sin hence no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, justice etc................. Why because those are Gods secondary attributes. God’s Love is a primary attribute like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes.

All doctrine begins with God at its starting point.

We can see the entire Psalm 22 which is Messianic was being played out before their very eyes and Jesus quotes the opening verse letting His persecutors know that He truly is the Son of God, the Messiah by quoting Psalm 22 being lived out before them. It’s a proclamation and a declaration that He is the Messiah, Gods One and Only Son who gave His life as a ransom for many. What the Father did allow to happen and not rescue His Son from was His death and suffering from those wicked leaders to be our sacrifice for sin. The entire weight of that was upon Him to bear alone but the Father never left Him. He was there hearing His prayers and answering them upon His death. And let’s not forget Jesus promise to the sinner- TODAY you will be with ME in PARADISE. For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. You see The Trinity was never fractured, broken or severed for even a moment but together the Godhead accomplished salvation for sinners. It was a Triune effort that worked out to perfection as They had planned from the very beginning.

God did not turn His back on adam when he sinned but sought him out, He didn’t turn His back on David when he sinned. God does not turn His back on us when we sin as He is there with open arms to forgive. Jesus didn’t turn His back on Saul when he was persecuting the church and in fact sought him out on the Damascus road and said to him” why are you persecuting Me ? You see if God did not turn His back on sinners then neither did the Father turn His back on His only Son who is Holy, Blameless, Sinless, and Righteous just like His Father. It’s nothing but a modern day myth that teaches that the Father turned His back on the Son at the cross.

God is not against Himself angrily displaying wrath from the Father to the Son. God is love. In love He sent His Son. The wrath bearing Son is a new concept not found in Scripture nor the ECF's. God is not against Himself. There is no one in the Trinity who is in opposition, no conflict, no dissention, no strife, do dysfunction etc…….as if God were somehow like a sinful human family. There is nothing broken in Our Blessed Trinity.

Jesus bearing Gods wrath and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is nothing but an urban legend.

The following scriptures affirm Jesus relationship with the Father on the cross was still there and not broken.

Psalm 22:24
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 16:32
“A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

And add to that Jesus promise to the thief on the cross that today you will be with Me in Paradise reaffirms Jesus went to be with the Father and not suffer in hell as some teach.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jeshu]

Because of the righteousness of Christ God looks upon us sinners but otherwise the Scripture got a dire warning to sinners who stay sinful, thinking God doesn't mind. Sin cannot look upon God, but God can look upon the sinner. A bit of a fire then J

Hebrews 12:22-29
"But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.


Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”

As a matter of fact he word will cut all unrighteousness out of our spirit.
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Here is a question for the group which I believe Christianity has been duped into believing a false concept of God.

Many preachers, teachers, pastors, theologians etc..... say the following:

God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's.

Is this biblical ?

ABSOLUTELY NOT !

Has anyone ever read the opening chapter of Job ?

What we read and find happening there is a conversation between satan ( the epitome of sin,evil etc..) and God over His protection of His servant Job. So we see this conversation between God and satan in heaven over Job. satan is allowed into the very presence of God.

Jesus is fully God and was taken away into the wilderness to be tested by satan. They were " face to face" speaking to one another and Jesus was tested/tempted by satan.

Jesus washed judas feet knowing he was about to go and make that treacherous deal with the leaders to betray Christ for 30 pieces of silver. Jesus said it would of been better that person never have been born than to be the one who betrayed Him.

Jesus lived among sinful people His entire life as God Incarnate. He came to save sinners. He lived with them, ate with them, healed them, loved them etc.....and eventually died for them even forgiving those who mocked and crucified Him on the cross.

So God does not turn away from sin nor sinners but in fact pursues us, loves us and died for us.

Paul was KILLING christians( horrific sins) yet Jesus knocks Saul off of his horse and asks him why are you persecuting Me ?

Jesus pursued Saul who became Paul and converted him on the road to Damascus.

These are just a few things for us to think about and have our minds renewed about what is true about God and what is not true.

Do you agree or disagree ?

hope this helps !!!

I think God cannot look upon sin without thinking how He will destroy it, and the only reason He has not done so, is out of His mercy to save as many as possible.

This is why we see satan in revelation 12:10 'And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.' Satan I believe and all the demons are currently in Heaven...wait what? Why are they there? Because God uses them? For what? So the people who God creates can choose between good and evil. God can destroy them at any time He pleases, but He keeps them for His purposes, so people can still chose God. The only reason God allows evil is to save the unbeliever.

 

[disciple Clint]

Psalm 22
My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my [c]groaning.
2 O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.
3 Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.
4 In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.
5 To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me [g]sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
8 “Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

9 Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
10 Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.

11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.
13 They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within [l]me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me [m]in the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;
18 They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.

19 But You, O Lord, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.

22 I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you of Israel.
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

25 From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.
26 The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
30 Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.
31 They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.

12 facts about God and Jesus last words. Some people teach when Jesus said My God My God why have Thou forsaken Me that the Father departed, deserted and turned His back upon His Son to bear Gods wrath on the cross. But is this teaching biblical? Is it true?

1-God is Triune
2- The Trinity cannot be broken, separated or abandoned.
3- God doesn't send His wrath against God
4- Jesus is God
5- Context has meaning and all the gospel accounts work together along with the OT quotations
6- Jesus words come from Psalm 22
7- Psalm 22 must be understood in the context of the crucifixion
8- Jesus last words were this " Father into Thy hands I commit my Spirit "
9- Psalm 22 has numerous fulfillment's during His Crucifixion
10- Psalms 22 and the gospels say He was mocked, despised, hurled insults, cast lots, divided His clothes, let God rescue Him etc......
11- Psalm 22:24 also says God has not despised Him nor hidden His face from Him and listened to His cry for help
12- Psalm 22:24 coincides with Jesus trust and relationship with the Father saying into your hands I commit MY Spirit.

God is LOVE. In Love the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John tells us.

We must understand how Gods attributes all work in harmony together not in opposition to each other. All of Gods attributes and His character flow from His Love for God is Love.

God being Love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is Love and that Love is perfect lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love by definition has to be expressed with another which is why a unitarian god cannot be Love. Love requires another to share and express that Love and it’s what we see with the Triune God. God is Love before anyone/anything existed.

Before creation there was no sin hence no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, justice etc................. Why because those are Gods secondary attributes. God’s Love is a primary attribute like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes.

All doctrine begins with God at its starting point.

We can see the entire Psalm 22 which is Messianic was being played out before their very eyes and Jesus quotes the opening verse letting His persecutors know that He truly is the Son of God, the Messiah by quoting Psalm 22 being lived out before them. It’s a proclamation and a declaration that He is the Messiah, Gods One and Only Son who gave His life as a ransom for many. What the Father did allow to happen and not rescue His Son from was His death and suffering from those wicked leaders to be our sacrifice for sin. The entire weight of that was upon Him to bear alone but the Father never left Him. He was there hearing His prayers and answering them upon His death. And let’s not forget Jesus promise to the sinner- TODAY you will be with ME in PARADISE. For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. You see The Trinity was never fractured, broken or severed for even a moment but together the Godhead accomplished salvation for sinners. It was a Triune effort that worked out to perfection as They had planned from the very beginning.

God did not turn His back on adam when he sinned but sought him out, He didn’t turn His back on David when he sinned. God does not turn His back on us when we sin as He is there with open arms to forgive. Jesus didn’t turn His back on Saul when he was persecuting the church and in fact sought him out on the Damascus road and said to him” why are you persecuting Me ? You see if God did not turn His back on sinners then neither did the Father turn His back on His only Son who is Holy, Blameless, Sinless, and Righteous just like His Father. It’s nothing but a modern day myth that teaches that the Father turned His back on the Son at the cross.

God is not against Himself angrily displaying wrath from the Father to the Son. God is love. In love He sent His Son. The wrath bearing Son is a new concept not found in Scripture nor the ECF's. God is not against Himself. There is no one in the Trinity who is in opposition, no conflict, no dissention, no strife, do dysfunction etc…….as if God were somehow like a sinful human family. There is nothing broken in Our Blessed Trinity.

Jesus bearing Gods wrath and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is nothing but an urban legend.

The following scriptures affirm Jesus relationship with the Father on the cross was still there and not broken.

Psalm 22:24
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 16:32
“A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

And add to that Jesus promise to the thief on the cross that today you will be with Me in Paradise reaffirms Jesus went to be with the Father and not suffer in hell as some teach.

hope this helps !!!

I would say you scored 99% on that essay, well done.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Psalm 22
My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my [c]groaning.
2 O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.
3 Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.
4 In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.
5 To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me [g]sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
8 “Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

9 Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
10 Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.

11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.
13 They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within [l]me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me [m]in the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;
18 They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.

19 But You, O Lord, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.

22 I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you of Israel.
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

25 From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.
26 The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
30 Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.
31 They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.

12 facts about God and Jesus last words. Some people teach when Jesus said My God My God why have Thou forsaken Me that the Father departed, deserted and turned His back upon His Son to bear Gods wrath on the cross. But is this teaching biblical? Is it true?

1-God is Triune
2- The Trinity cannot be broken, separated or abandoned.
3- God doesn't send His wrath against God
4- Jesus is God
5- Context has meaning and all the gospel accounts work together along with the OT quotations
6- Jesus words come from Psalm 22
7- Psalm 22 must be understood in the context of the crucifixion
8- Jesus last words were this " Father into Thy hands I commit my Spirit "
9- Psalm 22 has numerous fulfillment's during His Crucifixion
10- Psalms 22 and the gospels say He was mocked, despised, hurled insults, cast lots, divided His clothes, let God rescue Him etc......
11- Psalm 22:24 also says God has not despised Him nor hidden His face from Him and listened to His cry for help
12- Psalm 22:24 coincides with Jesus trust and relationship with the Father saying into your hands I commit MY Spirit.

God is LOVE. In Love the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John tells us.

We must understand how Gods attributes all work in harmony together not in opposition to each other. All of Gods attributes and His character flow from His Love for God is Love.

God being Love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is Love and that Love is perfect lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love by definition has to be expressed with another which is why a unitarian god cannot be Love. Love requires another to share and express that Love and it’s what we see with the Triune God. God is Love before anyone/anything existed.

Before creation there was no sin hence no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, justice etc................. Why because those are Gods secondary attributes. God’s Love is a primary attribute like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes.

All doctrine begins with God at its starting point.

We can see the entire Psalm 22 which is Messianic was being played out before their very eyes and Jesus quotes the opening verse letting His persecutors know that He truly is the Son of God, the Messiah by quoting Psalm 22 being lived out before them. It’s a proclamation and a declaration that He is the Messiah, Gods One and Only Son who gave His life as a ransom for many. What the Father did allow to happen and not rescue His Son from was His death and suffering from those wicked leaders to be our sacrifice for sin. The entire weight of that was upon Him to bear alone but the Father never left Him. He was there hearing His prayers and answering them upon His death. And let’s not forget Jesus promise to the sinner- TODAY you will be with ME in PARADISE. For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. You see The Trinity was never fractured, broken or severed for even a moment but together the Godhead accomplished salvation for sinners. It was a Triune effort that worked out to perfection as They had planned from the very beginning.

God did not turn His back on adam when he sinned but sought him out, He didn’t turn His back on David when he sinned. God does not turn His back on us when we sin as He is there with open arms to forgive. Jesus didn’t turn His back on Saul when he was persecuting the church and in fact sought him out on the Damascus road and said to him” why are you persecuting Me ? You see if God did not turn His back on sinners then neither did the Father turn His back on His only Son who is Holy, Blameless, Sinless, and Righteous just like His Father. It’s nothing but a modern day myth that teaches that the Father turned His back on the Son at the cross.

God is not against Himself angrily displaying wrath from the Father to the Son. God is love. In love He sent His Son. The wrath bearing Son is a new concept not found in Scripture nor the ECF's. God is not against Himself. There is no one in the Trinity who is in opposition, no conflict, no dissention, no strife, do dysfunction etc…….as if God were somehow like a sinful human family. There is nothing broken in Our Blessed Trinity.

Jesus bearing Gods wrath and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is nothing but an urban legend.

The following scriptures affirm Jesus relationship with the Father on the cross was still there and not broken.

Psalm 22:24
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 16:32
“A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

And add to that Jesus promise to the thief on the cross that today you will be with Me in Paradise reaffirms Jesus went to be with the Father and not suffer in hell as some teach.

hope this helps !!!

I disagree. God loves all His creations, but because we sin, His wrath is upon all of us, that is until we repent and give ourselves to Jesus. But God's wrath must be satisfied. Therefore Jesus had to drink of God's cup of wrath for us (I only talk about Christians who are born again). Here is some Bible evidence.

Isa 53:10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

It's not the crucifixion, it's not the rejecting of Jesus, it's not the torture of Jesus by the Roman soldiers that led to satisfaction of our sins, but that, that Father has completely crushed Jesus for us. This is the crushing that will happen to every sinner who rejects Jesus, they drink of the wrath of God and they are crushed so God's wrath is satisfied.

So Jesus crying in despair 'my God my God, why have you abandoned me' is because Father truly has abandoned Him. Of course Jesus knew this would happen, but this was the shock of the pain and experience. For eternity the Father Son and the Holy Spirit shared perfect love with each other, but on the cross, for the first time ever, Jesus did not feel the love of His Father. The cross was Jesus' hell. That is why (I cannot find the verse now and I might not be citing it right) it says Jesus went to Hades. This doesn't mean He went to hell (Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus went to paradise when He died, but He did not yet ascended to Father, not yet sat by His throne, wasn't yet by His presence). Jesus on that cross experienced hell, He did not go to hell. That was the punishment we all deserved to received, however, Jesus took the punishment of the believer upon Himself, that's how much He loved us.

 

[mlepfitjw]

When yeshua died, didn't he give up the spirit, and cry out to God why have you forsaken me?

Why did this happen?

Yeshua then became the sin holder in our place, on the cross, only to overcome sin, death, hell, and satan and after being raised again by God after 3 days because it was a promise premade about reconciling everyone to God.

Wasn't it?

I don't talk about sinning all that much cause we all guilty. And most people already understand that they are sinners.

A co-worker come up talking saying something like whats going on sinner to me, an he tell me about the 7 sins and he says how can you feel ashamed when i enjoy my sins. The other day he said what up with bible scriptures 'GD' and i told him I love God, and we still friends either way.

Ya ever get mad cause someone just takes to long at the menu ordering food, or doesn't move quick enough for you in your own standards.

I just love him regardless ya know what im saying, like who am I to judge.

sorry for the extra segway, but thought it might be benefical either way. May God the Father, andt he Lord Yeshua Christ be with you, and your families.

 

[disciple Clint]

from Isaiah 53 Bible Commentary - Matthew Henry (concise)
Isaiah 53 Bible Commentary

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2. Matthew Henry’s Bible Commentary (concise)
3. Isaiah
4. Isaiah 53

Matthew Henry’s Bible Commentary (concise)
<< Isaiah 52 | Isaiah 53 | Isaiah 54 >>
(Read all of Isaiah 53)
Complete Concise

Chapter Contents
The person. (1-3) sufferings. (4-9) humiliation, and exaltation of Christ, are minutely described; with the blessings to mankind from his death. (10-12)

Commentary on Isaiah 53:1-3
(Read Isaiah 53:1-3)

No where in all the Old Testament is it so plainly and fully prophesied, that Christ ought to suffer, and then to enter into his glory, as in this chapter. But to this day few discern, or will acknowledge, that Divine power which goes with the word. The authentic and most important report of salvation for sinners, through the Son of God, is disregarded. The low condition he submitted to, and his appearance in the world, were not agreeable to the ideas the Jews had formed of the Messiah. It was expected that he should come in pomp; instead of that, he grew up as a plant, silently, and insensibly. He had nothing of the glory which one might have thought to meet with him. His whole life was not only humble as to outward condition, but also sorrowful. Being made sin for us, he underwent the sentence sin had exposed us to. Carnal hearts see nothing in the Lord Jesus to desire an interest in him. Alas! by how many is he still despised in his people, and rejected as to his doctrine and authority!

Commentary on Isaiah 53:4-9
(Read Isaiah 53:4-9)

In these verses is an account of the sufferings of Christ; also of the design of his sufferings. It was for our sins, and in our stead, that our Lord Jesus suffered. We have all sinned, and have come short of the glory of God. Sinners have their beloved sin, their own evil way, of which they are fond. Our sins deserve all griefs and sorrows, even the most severe. We are saved from the ruin, to which by sin we become liable, by laying our sins on Christ. This atonement was to be made for our sins. And this is the only way of salvation. Our sins were the thorns in Christ's head, the nails in his hands and feet, the spear in his side. He was delivered to death for our offences. By his sufferings he purchased for us the Spirit and grace of God, to mortify our corruptions, which are the distempers of our souls. We may well endure our lighter sufferings, if He has taught us to esteem all things but loss for him, and to love him who has first loved us.

Commentary on Isaiah 53:10-12
(Read Isaiah 53:10-12)

Come, and see how Christ loved us! We could not put him in our stead, but he put himself. Thus he took away the sin of the world, by taking it on himself. He made himself subject to death, which to us is the wages of sin. Observe the graces and glories of his state of exaltation. Christ will not commit the care of his family to any other. God's purposes shall take effect. And whatever is undertaken according to God's pleasure shall prosper. He shall see it accomplished in the conversion and salvation of sinners. There are many whom Christ justifies, even as many as he gave his life a ransom for. By faith we are justified; thus God is most glorified, free grace most advanced, self most abased, and our happiness secured. We must know him, and believe in him, as one that bore our sins, and saved us from sinking under the load, by taking it upon himself. Sin and Satan, death and hell, the world and the flesh, are the strong foes he has vanquished. What God designed for the Redeemer he shall certainly possess. When he led captivity captive, he received gifts for men, that he might give gifts to men. While we survey the sufferings of the Son of God, let us remember our long catalogue of transgressions, and consider him as suffering under the load of our guilt. Here is laid a firm foundation for the trembling sinner to rest his soul upon. We are the purchase of his blood, and the monuments of his grace; for this he continually pleads and prevails, destroying the works of the devil.

 

[Saint Steven]

When yeshua died, didn't he give up the spirit, and cry out to God why have you forsaken me?

Why did this happen?

He was quoting Psalm 22. (a Messianic Psalm)

Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Psalm 22:12-18
Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

 

[ViaCrucis]

God can LOOK upon sin; He is omniscient [pantoscopic?].

1. He cannot/will not abide it in Heaven.
2. Past a certain intensity, Holiness vaporizes sin (and the unredeemed sinner), even if He just wanted to give them a hug [Exodus 33:17-23].

(You cannot go to Heaven if you are allergic to God. We are all born with that "allergy.")

Though this first point does not seem to jive particularly well with the narrative we read in Job, where the devil joins the other angels before God's throne in heaven.

Though I do agree, I think, with your second point, that is the Naked and Hidden God--God in the nakedness of His Divine Essence and thus hidden from us--is terrifying and dreadful, saying, "No one can see Me and live" to Moses. Not only can we not behold the Naked God, we wouldn't want to, it would destroy us. Which is why God comes to us in Means, through mediation, which is why we don't know God in His Nakedness and Hiddenness, but Clothed and Revealed in Christ.

But we should not imagine as though God were--to borrow your analogy--allergic to us, He's not. So it is not that He who is Holiness cannot abide sinful man; it is that man in his sin cannot abide God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sabertooth]

...it is that man in his sin cannot abide God.

That is what I meant when I said,

You cannot go to Heaven if you are allergic to God. We are all born with that "allergy."

The "you" in that sentence is (unredeemed) Man.