Can God learn new things?

[Not David]

I ask the question in two senses:
1)There was a time (or before time) that evil did not exist, so are things like "wrath" or "mercy" existing before time or did they appear when evil arrived?

2) Jesus Christ learned and experienced new things in his human nature (thrist, sadness, temptations, etc), we could say that the divine nature didn't learn anything new but the Person of Jesus of Nazareth did?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Ken Rank]

I ask the question in two senses:
1)There was a time (or before time) that evil did not exist, so are things like "wrath" or "mercy" existing before time or did they appear when evil arrived?

Genesis 1:14 says that God placed the sun, moon and stars where they are so we can use them as a clock... to determine the days, months, seasons, etc. That word for seasons doesn't mean summer, fall, winter and spring, it is the word moedim which we would translated as "feasts" or "appointments." The significance David is that the feasts all point to various aspects of messiah works. The Spring feasts point to the first coming, and the fall feasts point to his return, basically. So... if on the 4th day of creation God placed the sun, moon and stars where they are, in part, so we could know when the feasts would take place that would point to and teach us about messiah's work, then... clearly, wrath and mercy were on the mind of God during the creation process. He knew we were going to fall before He created anything. And just as an aside... I don't believe He created us to fall, I think He created us knowing we would. There is a difference.

2) Jesus Christ learned and experienced new things in his human nature (thrist, sadness, temptations, etc), we could say that the divine nature didn't learn anything new but the Person of Jesus of Nazareth did?

There is a difference between learned and experienced.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[devin553344]

God comprehends all things even human nature and the entire universe. There is nothing for him to learn. He even created eternal life for his children and sinless living.


1 Corinthians 15:26-27

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

 

[Ing Bee]

I ask the question in two senses:
1)There was a time (or before time) that evil did not exist, so are things like "wrath" or "mercy" existing before time or did they appear when evil arrived?

2) Jesus Christ learned and experienced new things in his human nature (thrist, sadness, temptations, etc), we could say that the divine nature didn't learn anything new but the Person of Jesus of Nazareth did?

Concerning #1, God's wrath and mercy are expressions of his nature and personality. I think it could be said that God's wrath against evil sin and death are expressed in the presence of those things. They didn't "start to exist", their potential is always present. Human justice is a good analogy: the courts only condemn a man once he has committed a crime. Justice didn't "begin to exist" because of the crime; rather, the crime was the occasion for justice to be expressed.

Also, as C.S. Lewis and others have pointed out, something "good" must exist for a "bad" thing can exist. An apple is good, a rotten, worm-infested apple is bad. In the same way, God is the source and sustainer of all goodness, life, beauty, etc. Anything that breaks relationship with the life-giver necessarily results in death (like a fan unplugged from a wall). Yahweh, in his being, nature and character stand in absolute contrast to "unbeing".

One more analogy: If someone started to set your house on fire, your reaction would be a natural overflow of who you are and what the house and its contents are in relationship to you. Even if no one had ever tried to light your house on fire before, you first-time reaction is not a "new" thing but the logical outflowing of those realities.

Concerning #2, I would go to Philippians 2:5-8, the portrait of Jesus "emptying" himself. I think the way you put it is pretty good. We know that he "learned obedience through what he suffered" (Hebrews 5:8) so that he could be our perfect representative and high priest. We also know that, at least on Earth, there were things he did not know in his humanity (e.g. Mark 13:32). This is in contrast to what we know of Jesus from John 1, Hebrews 1, and Colossians 1, as well as the fact that as the judge appointed by God who has all authority, Jesus must have perfect knowledge in order to render perfect justice.

 

[dzheremi]

I ask the question in two senses:
1)There was a time (or before time) that evil did not exist, so are things like "wrath" or "mercy" existing before time or did they appear when evil arrived?

Are wrath or mercy things to be learned, or are they responses to situations or acts? I don't really like the idea of them being learned, because that would imply that there was some time when God was without them, meaning that God was without mercy and mercy is some kind of acquired characteristic, rather than intrinsic to His nature as THE BEING. How do we even know what mercy or wrath are in the absence of our experience of them, which is God's acting in the world to bring down His wrath or shower us with His mercy? They don't exist as abstractions, after all.

The second question I don't want to answer because it seems like it's a Chalcedonian-only question, and I'm just not interested in debate on that matter anymore. I'm "over it", as the kids might say (...if kids still say that ), though I am still interested in what others might say.

 

[Not David]

Are wrath or mercy things to be learned, or are they responses to situations or acts? I don't really like the idea of them being learned, because that would imply that there was some time when God was without them, meaning that God was without mercy and mercy is some kind of acquired characteristic, rather than intrinsic to His nature as THE BEING. How do we even know what mercy or wrath are in the absence of our experience of them, which is God's acting in the world to bring down His wrath or shower us with His mercy? They don't exist as abstractions, after all.

The second question I don't want to answer because it seems like it's a Chalcedonian-only question, and I'm just not interested in debate on that matter anymore. I'm "over it", as the kids might say (...if kids still say that ), though I am still interested in what others might say.

1) Not sure, I don't know if the Holy Trinity had wrath and mercy before the creation of the cosmos.
2) I know what you mean.

 

[☦Marius☦]

1) Not sure, I don't know if the Holy Trinity had wrath and mercy before the creation of the cosmos.
2) I know what you mean.

God does not change in any way at any time. What he has known he has always known, as he is the sum of all knowledge.

 

[dzheremi]

1) But what if wrath and mercy (and similar things: love, compassion, etc.) are not things that are had, but things that just are? God IS, right? I mean, He calls Himself "I AM" in the OT. And so as God is, He certainly manifests Himself in the world by His interactions with us in the world He has created (or 'energies', to use the Palamite term...I think!), which include things like mercy and wrath. But they aren't like...I don't know...God "power ups" or whatever, like in a video game. God did not gain +500 mercy points or something for guiding the Israelites through the desert by His chosen vessel Moses or what have you. Everything that God is or has or however you want to put it most in some sense come from Him, right? Since He is the source and creator of all.

Edit: Or what Marius said four minutes ago! (Doh)

 

[Not David]

God does not change in any way at any time. What he has known he has always known, as he is the sum of all knowledge.

How does that address the questions I asked though?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I ask the question in two senses:
1)There was a time (or before time) that evil did not exist, so are things like "wrath" or "mercy" existing before time or did they appear when evil arrived?

2) Jesus Christ learned and experienced new things in his human nature (thrist, sadness, temptations, etc), we could say that the divine nature didn't learn anything new but the Person of Jesus of Nazareth did?

Thank you for your time.

God created everything. That being said, He created wrath and mercy, temptation, thirst and sadness. Most Christians may not understand the character of God. The beginning and the end, and everything between. Evil and good always existed. Now reconcile your God knowing that.
Blessings

 

[ArmyMatt]

He cannot learn new things because He is all knowing. but, being fully human, His human mind developed like the rest of ours.

but the "Who" is always and only the all-knowing Incarnate Lord. don't try to dissect this.

 

[Not David]

He cannot learn new things because He is all knowing. but, being fully human, His human mind developed like the rest of ours.

but the "Who" is always and only the all-knowing Incarnate Lord. don't try to dissect this.

Maybe I am being too rationalist but how is it possible for all-knowing God to experience human emotions that He didn't have before.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Maybe I am being too rationalist but how is it possible for all-knowing God to experience human emotions that He didn't have before.

because the all-knowing God became flesh, without ceasing to be God.

 

[Not David]

because the all-knowing God became flesh, without ceasing to be God.

Did God the Son know about human emotions before becoming a human?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Did God the Son know about human emotions before becoming a human?

I would say yes. being all-knowing, He knows every detail about His creation perfectly.

 

[nChrist]

Let's make it simple: God knew ALL before the foundation of the world. He also numbered the hairs on your head before the foundation of the world. Our Lord Jesus Christ said:

[Matthew 10:30 KJV] But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.