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Quick snynopsis: Our Lord cast demons out of a poor tormented victim, and chucked then into a herd of hogs, which then stampeded into the lake and drowned.
And that shows Demonic Power, think ye? Not very impressive, IMO. What happened to their magic powers?
AgreedRemember, that God governs the material world through angels
So the angels power varies from angel to angel according to it's particular function in the governance of the material world. Hence powers principalities thrones.
That being so, some angels function to govern matter does not require the power to move matter locally ie; for the local movement of material things. To move matter from one location to another. Some angels function of government does require the power to cause local movement. So, some angels can and some can't move things. The angels that can, are able in various ways according to their particular function, or as it is written in Scripture 'their proper place'. The rebellious angels who abandoned their proper place maintain the powers required for that place. So some demons were created with the power to move things some were not.
The answers came from those who incorrectly conflate angels and demons.The point of the OPs question is whether demons can move physical objects. My answer was no. Then there was a response that said that an angel came down, rolled the stone away from the tomb. But the response was not consistent with the question because the question was not about angels, but demons. However, the rolling of the stone away from the tomb was a one-time event, and there are no other references about angels moving physical objects anywhere in the New Testament.
That is all speculation.Remember, that God governs the material world through angels
So the angels power varies from angel to angel according to it's particular function in the governance of the material world. Hence powers principalities thrones.
That being so, some angels function to govern matter does not require the power to move matter locally ie; for the local movement of material things. To move matter from one location to another. Some angels function of government does require the power to cause local movement. So, some angels can and some can't move things. The angels that can, are able in various ways according to their particular function, or as it is written in Scripture 'their proper place'. The rebellious angels who abandoned their proper place maintain the powers required for that place. So some demons were created with the power to move things some were not.
Actually most of that is either done in the OT or prophesied about.It is interesting that Jesus did a lot of new things that were not actually written in the Jewish Scriptures. Go through the Gospels. Jesus turning water into wine is not supported, feeding the five thousand is not supported, healing a blind man by spitting on dirt and putting it in his eyes, dying on the cross, being raised from the dead, and a lot of His teaching, including replacement of the Law with loving God and one's neighbour - you can't find actual OT Scriptures to support these things, so, by your own standards, Jesus was a fake - Or was He?
No, you're right.according to the scriptures they can guess and give extraordinary strength but no move objects
am i wrong
Actually the ENTIRE GOSPEL was in the Jewish scriptures according to Paul:It is interesting that Jesus did a lot of new things that were not actually written in the Jewish Scriptures.
No one knew that at the time. You are looking in hindsight through the writing of the Gospels and letters, which the contemporary Jews did not have then. The Pharisees, the principal Bible scholars of the time could not see Jesus in the Old Testament, otherwise they would not have had Him killed. It was only when the risen Jesus revealed to the two disciples at Emmaus all the OT references to Him that anyone knew the extent at which the OT spoke about Him.Actually most of that is either done in the OT or prophesied about.
Feeding 5000 - God feeding Israel in the wilderness
Healing the blind - happened in the OT
Loving one's neighbor was a direct quote of Leviticus 19:18.
His death and resurrection were prophesied in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53
Our Lord NEVER taught the Law was replaced.
They were blinded by the devil and our Lord called them on it:No one knew that at the time. You are looking in hindsight through the writing of the Gospels and letters, which the contemporary Jews did not have then. The Pharisees, the principal Bible scholars of the time could not see Jesus in the Old Testament, otherwise they would not have had Him killed.
So you are saying that all the eminent Bible scholars of the day were all blinded by the devil? So, by the same token, if God does a miracle today that brings thousands to Christ, who end up stable church members winning souls for Christ themselves, and the miracle is not expressly stated in the Bible, and a number of our respected and eminent Bible scholars condemn it, can I say they are blinded by the devil too?They were blinded by the devil and our Lord called them on it:
John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
That was according to Paul, speaking at least 20 years after the Resurrection. He received that knowledge by revelation, the same spirit of wisdom and revelation that he is praying that the Ephesians would receive from the indwelling Holy Spirit. You and I know that what Paul is saying is correct, but no one living in Israel before the Resurrection of Christ knew it.Actually the ENTIRE GOSPEL was in the Jewish scriptures according to Paul:
1 Cor 15.1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.
The only scriptures extant at that time were the Hebrew Scriptures - the OT.
That is all speculation.
Correct. Those are ANGELS, not demons.Scriptures reveal the governing function of angels when it refers to the fallen angels in terms that apply to functions of government. Please note demons are reffered to as the function of government they had before they were fallen.
Demons are fallen angels. Furthermore they are still referred to by the function God created them with. Below is scripture about demons. Curious, you missed this Scripture. I posted it too.Correct. Those are ANGELS, not demons.
Ephesians 6-12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
They are described very differently in scripture, Angels have bodies and do not seek to inhabit living flesh (human or animal); whereas demons are described in the NT as inhabiting or seeking to inhabit human bodies.Demons are fallen angels.
I did not miss it. It does not describe any of those principalities or powers inhabiting flesh. They are fallen angels, NOT demons.Below is scripture about demons. Curious, you missed this Scripture. I posted it too.
For one God created humans and angels. Demons would be a third category of rational being as you see it. My mother is Greek She used to call me vray diabolos. the first is phonetic. It meant you devil. The devil is Satan for Greeks.They are described very differently in scripture, Angels have bodies and do not seek to inhabit living flesh (human or animal); whereas demons are described in the NT as inhabiting or seeking to inhabit human bodies.
I did not miss it. It does not describe any of those principalities or powers inhabiting flesh. They are fallen angels, NOT demons.
In the greek, demons are described by the words daimonion or daimōn. Those words do not appear in that passage. Instead it uses words archē, exousia, and kosmokratōr. Those are NOT demons. They are fallen angels.
Tell me: Why are you so insistent that fallen angels and demons are the same thing?
We are given exactly ZERO information on the genesis of demons so it is useless to speculate.For one God created humans and angels. Demons would be a third category of rational being as you see it.
Yet you are willing to believe that is true with exactly ZERO information for the sake of argument but not demons. The words signify a thing they aren't the thing. Words signify a concept and the concept doesn't change but the word for it can.And for all we know, God may have created hundreds or thousands of categories of rational beings. We do not know one way or the other.
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