Can Deborah be classified under Judges?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Heber Book List

Theologian [Applied Theology]
Jul 1, 2015
2,609
851
Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England
✟132,416.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
You might not find it so entertaining if you had something at stake in the discussion...

A Christian guy using Christian sources and personal prejudices to diminish the importance of a greatly respected Jewish Heroine, nothing new here but his dance is entertaining.
 
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,130
19,010
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,719.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, but the point is, he's doing it in order to drag down current Christian women in leadership. Because we're apparently not allowed to have Scriptural role models, or be anything other than doormats. o_O
 
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, but the point is, he's doing it in order to drag down current Christian women in leadership. Because we're apparently not allowed to have Scriptural role models, or be anything other than doormats. o_O

Ah! I have not read every single post and did not know that was what his intentions were. Well, there are plenty of women who are Scriptural role models in both Christianity and Judaism and were much more than just doormats.

It seems that the translation he is using has a very American evangelical slant to it. However, in the Hebrew, שֹׁפְטָ֥ה means judgement or was judging.

The footnote in one of my sources says “4-7. Deborah’s call. Deborah was the first judge to be described as a prophetess and the first of whom it is said explicitly that she decided cases of law for the nation. She came to the fore in this time of travail and spearheaded the war that ended Canaanite domination.”

It would seem that she was a woman in the position of authority and leadership over men.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
I think the whole exchange is quite entertaining.

I was entertained for a while myself because it was all so utterly ridiculous, but then I started thinking of this proverb, "There is no good way to answer fools when they say something stupid. If you answer them, then you, too, will look like a fool. If you don’t answer them, they will think they are smart." (Proverbs 26:4-5)
 
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A Christian guy using Christian sources and personal prejudices to diminish the importance of a greatly respected Jewish Heroine, nothing new here but his dance is entertaining.
I give credit where it is due. Indeed Deborah was a heroine in a way, but not fully fledged judge as per the requirement of that period!
 
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, but the point is, he's doing it in order to drag down current Christian women in leadership. Because we're apparently not allowed to have Scriptural role models, or be anything other than doormats. o_O
Women have an important role to play in the society. They are gifted with better talents to raise a family. They can also support in the ministry. Leading is not meant for them. I have been married for more than 47 years to one wife with her unquestionable loyalty, faithfulness and responsibility.
 
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ah! I have not read every single post and did not know that was what his intentions were. Well, there are plenty of women who are Scriptural role models in both Christianity and Judaism and were much more than just doormats.

It seems that the translation he is using has a very American evangelical slant to it. However, in the Hebrew, שֹׁפְטָ֥ה means judgement or was judging.

The footnote in one of my sources says “4-7. Deborah’s call. Deborah was the first judge to be described as a prophetess and the first of whom it is said explicitly that she decided cases of law for the nation. She came to the fore in this time of travail and spearheaded the war that ended Canaanite domination.”

It would seem that she was a woman in the position of authority and leadership over men.
My contention is that she was not a full fledged judge as per the requirements of that period. Therefore, she had to take the support of Barak. That didn't happen in case of other judges with their military, people or valor.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,130
19,010
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,719.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Women have an important role to play in the society. They are gifted with better talents to raise a family. They can also support in the ministry. Leading is not meant for them. I have been married for more than 47 years to one wife with her unquestionable loyalty, faithfulness and responsibility.

Some women are gifted for housekeeping etc. That's not all of us, though, and it's very damaging when people try to shove us into a mould which does not fit.

God calls some women to lead. It so happens that I'm one of them. I still have a happy marriage in which I'm loyal, faithful and responsible. It doesn't have to be either/or.
 
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Some women are gifted for housekeeping etc. That's not all of us, though, and it's very damaging when people try to shove us into a mould which does not fit.
By the way, my wife thoroughly dislikes cooking. I cannot cook. So there is no alternative left for her.
God calls some women to lead. It so happens that I'm one of them. I still have a happy marriage in which I'm loyal, faithful and responsible. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Yes, you may lead among women. It has to be only one way.
 
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,130
19,010
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,719.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
By the way, my wife thoroughly dislikes cooking. I cannot cook. So there is no alternative left for her.

You can't learn, and share the task?

Yes, you may lead among women. It has to be only one way.

I'm not going to debate you further in a forum where both of us are guests. I have simply made clear to everyone what your agenda is. Then I'll get back to my busy day running a parish...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You can't learn, and share the task?
You cannot teach a reluctant old dog, new tricks!

I'm not going to debate you further in a forum where both of us are guests. I have simply made clear to everyone what your agenda is. Then I'll get back to my busy day running a parish...
My agenda is to glorify the wisdom of God and His Son, not force myself into a position of power. I appreciate your voluntary service in running a parish.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.