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Can Christians smoke and drink beer?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Jesus_is_Saint, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, the bible doesn't say that. It actually promotes drinking some alcohol for health reasons etc.


    Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,



    Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
    Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

    Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.


    New wine is grape juice that is beginning to ferment and creates a small amount of alcohol that's why it's called new. The fermentation process causes expansion which is why you can't use a stretched out old wine skin for new wine.

    H8492
    ?????? / ???????
    ti^yro^sh
    BDB Definition:
    1) wine, fresh or new wine, must, freshly pressed wine
    Part of Speech: noun masculine
    A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3423 in the sense of expulsion
    Same Word by TWOT Number: 2505


    Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

    wine:

    G3631
    ???????
    oinos
    oy'-nos
    A primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [H3196]); “wine” (literally or figuratively): - wine.

    H3196
    ???
    yayin
    yah'-yin
    From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

    New wine still contains alcohol.

    The Passover wine Christ drank had alcohol in it.
     
  2. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a scripture that says that? Driving in a car can cause a crash and destroy the body. Is that not a sin too? Eating certain foods can cause harm, but God says all food is pure.
     
  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is called an accident. Smoking isn't an accident.

    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
     
  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It does both.

    I should have been more specific, there is Scripture that says to be sober, as well as particular people were told not to drink wine at all.

    Yeah, there is scripture like the following where God pretty much says party dudes/dudetts, whatever you want, have a good time in my presence. And it would make perfect sense God would want that, after all he really does love us, and the only reason for his guidelines on drunkenness, is, well for the same reason...he loves us and doesn't want us to hurt ourselves:


    …25then exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place where the LORD your God will choose. 26Then you may spend the money on anything you desire: cattle, sheep, wine, strong drink, or anything you wish. You are to feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice with your household. 27And do not neglect the Levite within your gates, since he has no portion or inheritance among you.…
     
  5. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know about the last thing...perhaps an antiquated thing from the OT applied to someone but sober in the NT doesn't have anything to do with alcohol:

    1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    sober
    G4998
    σώφρων
    sōphrōn
    so'-frone
    From the base of G4982 and that of G5424; safe (sound) in mind, that is, self controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion): - discreet, sober, temperate.

    sober means to have self control not to abstain from alcohol like it does in modern English.
     
  6. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    That scripture is not talking about things that are harmful to the human body. There is no context to support such a notion. Its actually referring to sectarianism which is harmful to the body of Christ, not our individual bodies..
     
  7. ubicaritas

    ubicaritas sinning boldly

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    Yes. Whether they should is another story. Some people at my church do smoke, but they are of course putting their health and risk. That's not exactly a good thing but we also respect that is their choice.

    My church sees nothing wrong with responsible, moderate drinking as long as that doesn't go against ones conscience or harm other people. At my own congregation, outside of communion we do not serve anything alcoholic.
     
  8. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That scripture is talking about things that are harmful to the human body.

    Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
    Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
    Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

    Same concept here except others would destroy his body, whereas the other scripture is about someone defiling their own body.
     
  9. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You said it not me. :) sober, sound mind, self controlled, and sometimes if not always at least technically, drink can deter sound mind/self control. Precisely how the term moved into describing a non drinker, a definition that I'm sure also exists.

    Example of wine causing one to not be of sound mind:

    it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer,
    5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes but the word is not alcohol related. It speaks of self control in general. To be alcohol sober means not to drink at all but this verse is not saying he cannot have a glass or two of wine if he wants.
     
  11. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I disagree but so be it.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's easy to prove:

    1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    Clarke:

    1 Timothy 3:3

    An eighth article in his character is, he must not be given to wine; μη παροινον. This word not only signifies one who is inordinately attached to wine, a winebibber or tippler, but also one who is imperious, abusive, insolent, whether through wine or otherwise. Kypke contends for this latter acceptation here. See his proofs and examples.


    So, "given to wine" would be someone addicted to it, an alcoholic. But a casual drinker of wine would be able to become a bishop...I mean, real wine was used in communions.
     
  13. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sound mind can be affected by alcohol, no two ways about it.
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Read the context. Its not about the human body but is about sectarianism in the body of Christ.
     
  15. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Of course but a Bishop could and did drink wine, no two ways about that either.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's about both.
     
  17. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    No i disagree. Holiness is not about physical fitness. The apostles dont teach about physical fitness. You're reading into the text what you think it says.
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The temple of God is our body and we are not to defile it. This isn't being read into the text.
     
  19. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is because the body refers to the body of Christ. The whole chapter is about sectarianism in the body of Christ, not about taking care of our physical bodies. Im telling you what the scripture is saying. Do you know what defiles us as individuals? Things like fornication, idolatry, even our words. Not physical fitness. The apostles never refer to physical fitness when referring to the temple. Never.
     
  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nope:

    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


    Wrong. Drug use defiles the body and that equals defiling the temple of God...smoking is legal but it is "a drug" and is very harmful to the body so it is false that the bible does not address our being healthy. Do you have any idea how many people have died of lung cancer from smoking? Ever heard of Gluttony? Sexually transmitted diseases that destroy our bodies?
     
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