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Featured Can Atheists win the bible?

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Ninshu, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Ninshu

    Ninshu New Member

    United States
    The Athiest believes in no god, therefore he cannot be condemned for worship of the beast 666. The same is NOT true for most of those who follow the Bible.

    Revelation "He comes quickly, and his reward is with him, to give everyone according to his works." Faith without works is dead. Be not confused, for a man reaps what he sows.

    The Beast 666:

    1) Legacy of Original Sin: Adam and Eve became gods. Rulers throughout the ancient world were worshipped as gods. When we get to the Christian age, Romans 13, Paul says the rulers were appointed by God and must be obeyed. It's the same thing...

    2) The God YHWH, Yahweh, is the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, which is the five sided star, the body of man. "The body is the temple of the Lord." The Kingdom of heaven is within.

    3) Hosea 13:7-8 "I will be onto them as a LION, Observe them as a LEOPARD, and meet them as a BEAR." Revelation 13:1-8 "I beheld a beast rise from the sea, with the mouth of a LION, the body of a LEOPARD, and the feet of a BEAR. All shall WORSHIP him whose names are not written in the book of Life."

    The Scriptures tend to answer themselves, yet no one, I MEAN NO ONE, will ever tell you about how the God of the Old Testament admits to being the Beast 666 in the Revelation. It's worth noting that the Gnostic Christians reject the Old Testament and it's god as being a wicked Demiurge, but I didn't see Gnostic as one of the possible denominations here.

    However, remember that we just established how the God YHWH is really the body of man. Then the Beast 666 refers to a certain group of people, namely the Synagogue of Satan. The bloodline of the legacy of the original Sin: Becoming God Kings.

    4) 666, the number of God? The Number 666 - God's Secret Place

    Again, Hosea 13 = Revelation 13. The numbers are a perfect match.
    This happens a lot. For instance, Job is book 18 of the OT. Chapter 41, 4+1=5.
    The writings of Apostle Paul begin with Acts, NT book 5, to Philemon, NT book 18.

    5) The Beast rose form the Sea: It refers to the Flood of Noah. Some say the descendants of Cain are still with us, but only the bloodline of Noah survived the flood. Scholars believe Cain killing Abel was based on the story of Seth Killing Osiris, and then we have a third son named Seth. Perhaps the mark of Cain was a new identity? It's worth noting the descendants of Seth and the descendants of Cain are each 8 and are similar variations of the same names. There are two Enochs, etc. It's really just the bloodline of Cain.

    The Canaanites come from Noah's descendant Canaan, so no matter how you look at it, the Beast rose from the sea, which is the flood of Noah. The Flood that came from the Dragon's mouth in Revelation 12 when Michael fought against him.

    Michael vs the Dragon may have been based on Osiris vs Apep and the Watchers.

    Egyptian Religious Comparisons

    6) Received a deadly headwound: This is due to Christ, after which Tidus Flavius captured Jerusalem.

    7) All shall WORSHIP him whose names are not written in the lambs book of life:
    Worship implies the Beast is a God, one that the masses will worship. One cannot deny the plain fact that the scripture tells us the God of the Old Testament is the beast 666 in Hos 13.

    B. The Second Beast from the Earth, with two horns like a lamb, who speaks as a dragon.

    1) The Dragon, Leviathan: Do not be deceived into thinking Leviathan was a sea creature. Read Job 41. "Shall he speak soft words to you, will he make a covenant with you, will you take him as a servant forever."

    Job 41:15 "His scales are his pride."
    Acts 9:18 "Scales fell from his eyes, he rose and was baptised."

    And that is the mystery of the thorn of Satan in Apostle Paul's flesh, lest he be exalted in the abundance of the Revelations. Paul speaks much truth, but Leviathan is also there. In fact, every verse in Job 41 has a perfect match somewhere in the NT. Of course Apostle Paul is the foundation for Christianity.

    2) He does great wonders, making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men.

    This refers to Emperor Constantine, who was considered a "Dragon King," and who conquered using Greek Fire which he claimed was given to him by Angels. Constantine created Church Christianity in 325 AD with the Council of Nicaea. The Nicene Creed.

    3) The second beast from the Earth:

    This refers to the ROCK, Apostle Peter, upon whom the church was built.

    4) He exercises all the authority of the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    This is where we are today, for obvious reasons. (Go back and read number 6)
    The New Faith of Christianity includes the Old Testament and it's God.
    Therefore the Roman Church exercises the authority of the first beast.

    Now the idea of the Roman Church being the beast or the harlot, is nothing new, but few have found it as the second beast.

    C. The Son of Perdition:

    He sits in the temple of God, showing or proving that he is God.
    (Recap: Adam and Eve became Gods. The God YHWH is the body of man. The body is the temple of the Lord. The Lord is the Beast 666, the number of a man."

    When you see the Abomination standing in the Holy Place...
    (The place of Worship. Do you see it? The worship of Men as god, Celebrities, Rulers, etc)

    D) The Marriage Supper

    The Beast, the Dragon, the Son of Perdition, The Man of Sin, the second Beast, they all refer to the Hebrews and the Christians....

    Come to Marriage Supper. For those who were invited did not come, therefore he will take anyone from off the streets. Where those invited were the Hebrews and the Christians, and taking anyone from off the streets who will come refer to the Atheists.

    There are 10 bridesmaids, 5 wise and 5 foolish. The wise ones got Extra oil for their lamps. At the midnight hour, judgment day, the Oil of the foolish burns out, but the new oil shall endure. Those in the Churches are those who refuse "New Oil."

    F) Plagues of Revelation 16: The Sea (The angel tell us the waters are peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues.) Became as the blood of a dead man (Jesus Christ) and they were given blood to drink (The Eucharist.)

    That's only the tip of the Iceberg. Want to learn more, come to my youtube channel
    Emerald Eyes Esoteric Ministry.

    G) Many as One...

    Numbers 14:15, Jud 6:16, Rom 12:5, 1 Co 12:27. "If you will judge this people as ONE MAN." The body of Christ is many. The Body of the Beast is also many.

    H) Golden Age of Saturn.

    The perfect Garden of Eden, paradise. Eden in the Sumerian means house of judgment.
    Saturn ruled over the Golden Age. An age of peaceful anarchy.

    Saturn had 3 sons: Hades, Poseidon, Zeus
    Adam had 3 sons: Abel, Cain, Seth
    Geb had 3 sons: Osiris, Horus, Seth
    El had 3 sons: Yam, Hadad, Mot

    In each of these pantheons is a god of the dead. Hades, lord of the underworld. Mot, Canaanite god of the Dead. Osiris, lord of the dead after he was killed by Seth. The original Egyptian god of the dead was Anubis. And Abel slain by his brother Cain.

    Adam was made from the Earth.
    The Egyptian God GEB is the Lord of the Earth.

    Satan / Set-An is based on Seth, who is a form of Apep, the black Dragon whom I would also call Acnologia. Set-AN. Anu of Mesopotamia from the Babylonian Pantheon. The original God of the Dead being Anu, or Anu-Ibis. The Ibis being the beast head of various Egyptian Gods, and IBLIS being the Devil in Islam.

    666 The Carbon Atom, named after Adam. The legacy of Men becoming Gods.
    The Legacy of Government after the peaceful anarchy of the golden Age of Saturn.
    Saturn, Adam Geb, El, The SAGE of the 666 Paths. Welcome to the Faith of Ninshu :)
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  2. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    United States

    I’m not sure what “win the Bible” means, I used to win bible trivia all the time ;) ... but as an Atheist, I feel I should make some response. You are right that we are not likely to worship any beasts, anti christs, or devils... But honestly I don’t get the infatuation with apocalyptic prophecy. Revelations is probably the worst book in the entire New Testament. Both it’s textual history and its content are seriously lacking in my opinion. None of the biblical prophecies impress me, but revelations least of all. There is literally no reason to expect this book was divinely inspired.
  3. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    United States
    I have to read this more in depth later, Here is a report I did when in college on Babylon, you may like it:

    The Star shines where the Baby cries”

    (- Ancient Babylon: The cradle of much present day philosophy, tradition, and religion):

    Babylon the cradle of much present day science, philosophy, tradition, and religion has played an important role in the formation of two out of three most commonly held world views; of which (in order to simplify) I would like to compare to an ancient fable:

    Indian Myths:

    Once upon a time there only was one family. A father, a mother, a son, and a star with lit the path of truth. An ancient Indian myth put it correctly in the myth ‘The Crying That Defeated A God.’ The myth, still taught today in Indian circles, went something like this: Glooskap was a God who was afraid of nothing and no one. This God had a friend whom challenged his ideas. She claimed to know someone who was not afraid of God and would not obey God. The Man/God went to this person and it was a baby. The baby ‘Wasis’ had taken over the woman’s house. And the Baby would use his “goo goo”s and “ga ga”s to scorn the Authority of the man/God. The Man laughed and transformed into musical melody and tried to enchant the child. After several attempts at defeating the baby the God walked away enraged. The baby saw his mother and smiled and loved her. The moral of the story was recorded by Philip Ardagh as “…how the greatest of gods was defeated by the smallest of children and why whenever a baby says “Goo!” it is to remind us of the time when Wasis put Glooskap firmly in his place.”1 Whether it’s our beliefs or it’s our own family the presence of the Father unit in the sense of having absolute authority is unpopular. Who, as a kid likes to have a father tell them they ‘can’t do this’ or ‘they may not have that?’ No one as a kid likes the parental authority of the Father because it is limiting to their freedoms. The ‘Family’ has never been understood by anthropologists, at least not as to its origin. Why we have a father, a mother, and a child no one knows for certain; but we do. There is not one human that is alive without the sperm and the egg of two parents (with the exception of Immaculate Conception). Those parents may abort the child or abandon the child but the child still has two parents. The questions we have about the physical ‘family origin’ can often be answered by looking at the questions we have concerning the spiritual ‘family origin.’ As Ardagh put it in regards to ‘The Crying That Defeated A God’ and other such children’s stories: “Native American myths and legends are very much alive and are still told today. They are…used in religious ceremonies. It is important to remember that what one person might see as a myth or a legend, another might see as a part of his or her religion.”2 So lets look at what he said. In this ancient myth there is a Father (though indicated as a man), a Mother, and a child. The ‘Father Concept’ is God, the Creator, the Originator of promise, the one who basically put us here (because obviously we cannot come from nothing), a “Mother/Bride concept” (-or recipient of the Promise), a ‘Medium concept’ (The basis of the relationship between the Mother and Father, love marriage, etc; is the medium), a ‘Hope concept’ (i.e a star in sky, a glimmer of beauty and hope; the promise that the union between the Mother and Father, Husband and Wife will happen, i.e. an engagement ring), and ‘Depravity concept’ (the sad aftermath or happy outcome of the union of the Husband and Wife: the baby cries or doesn’t cry depending on the success of the union) – using the Indian Myth as a spring board. Now, if you could: Visually picture in your mind A Husband (Father), a Wife (Mother- recipient of Promise), a Star or glimmering Ring (Hope), a union (medium) of marriage, and a product of the union: a happy child or a sad child outcome. Now with these 5 things in the setting of a family One can not only discuss any religion comparatively but also figure out the roots of thought from which one would come up with such an idea, and how it has it’s roots in Babylon. Historically there are three families of thought directly or indirectly regarding ‘salvation’ from ‘death:’ Babylonian families (Part A and B) and Jerusalem Families of thought. The First two families of thought (Babylonian families A + B) encompass every known religious, philosophical, scientific world view one could possibly muster up. The second family deals with a vary narrow, and quite simple and straight forward mentality; yet consists of a very unpopular world View (-W.V.). I will maintain that this Jerusalem Family is the only W.V. that is distinguished from the rest, by several obvious factors that I will discuss. It is my hope that through these thoughts that one can trace the roots of an idea and think for ones self to come to a conclusion that Babylonian thought is ‘Mickey Mouse,’ and found wanting when weighed against Jerusalem’s Biblical thought and world view. The first Babylonian thought is very ‘closed minded’ toward those who are not ‘enlightened’ toward their Theo- and Philo- osophies; in which, causes one to feel trapped into an organization and at least ‘discouraged’ of questioning the authority of the ‘Organization.’ The second Bab. Thought is like the first in many ways but instead of ‘World Denying,’ it is ‘World Affirming.’ The Jerusalem will speak for itself and needs no introduction.

    [Hint: Scan over Figures 1, 2, and 3 (on pages 4, 7, and 9) before continuing]

    Fig. 1.

    Babylonian family (part A)

    Legalism (Closed Mindedness)

    (Perfection) Father – Satan, The world Systems (The Gift becomes the giver), Deification of Man (Moral Regeneration: ‘Human Regenerative Powers’) Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Judaism, Roman Catholicism.

    (Medium) Keeping of the Laws of God. Religion – Following strict regulations, precepts, ordinances, and commandments

    (Hope) – Nothing- All promises are to be self obtained only to pray and to beg and to plead for mercy from a God whom doesn’t really like you all too much, so you better appease his wrath with some sacrificial system of money or morality.

    (Depravity) Child Crying Perception of a God who primary purpose is to ‘hate’ and make life hard by removing recreation and anything that causes pleasure physically, and a God who likes to ‘condemn’. Rebellion, strife, Religious Wars, Hypocrisy, Crusades, dissonance, like kids fighting and crying, lose of hope, increase in suicide.

    (Recipient of Promise) – Mom Babylon, Harlotry, Queen of Heaven, Mother Mary. Sara and her children. Wars between Israel and Ishmael. Palestine and Israel. Anyone who joins an organization that is ‘annointed’. But if you leave and go to another church or if you question authority you are ‘anathema’- cursed to the lowest hell.

    The first family of thought can be rooted back in Babylon. Perfection: The underlying thought of this view is that some how, somewhere man can obtain God-hood (deity). By building up the fortress of self or by walking up the corporate ladder of heaven, you attempt to ascend to the ‘most high’. This first idea is commonly referred to as the ‘Tower of Babel’ mentality. The mentality that I may create something everlasting, or even continue something everlasting out of my non-everlasting life to exalt my throne above the stars of God and above the height of the clouds. A real interesting section of ancient writings can be of use in this area: try reading Isaiah 14, and or any ancient religious writing from pre 2000B.C. and this family of thought will prevail. If traditions have been adopted from history you can be assured that religion is adopted too. See how some traditions have been adopted:

    Traditions of the flood can be rooted back to Babylon (In Mesopotamia), Dalley claims that “Ubara-Tutu king of Shuruppak was the Father of Noah (Atrahasis- Ziusudra)…Other names of Noah are: Promethius- Greecian ; Atrahasis- Mesopotamian; Ziusudra- Sumeria; Utrpishtim- Gilgamesh; Xisuthros- Babylonian.”3 But according to Dalley there is only one true account, all others are a divergence of the original account: “All these flood stories may be explained as deriving form one Mesopotamian original, used in travelers’ tales for over two-thousand years.” 4 We have all played the telephone game. Something that is said on one side of the room will, through time, break down into a ‘myth’ but the original was a true and accurate statement; Consequently, we treat the flood and Noah as a ‘myth’ with this same faulty reasoning. We reject the Biblical account because we have forgotten that there really was a flood account to which one had to diverge off of.

    Traditions of Depopulating by killing; abortion, neglect and starvation can be rooted back to Babylon. According to Dalley an early Mesopotamian belief was that the “flood was sent by the gods in order to reduce over-population.” 5 If one knows their geography one would know that there is approx. 5.5 Billion people on Earth right now. If we utilized our land resources to the fullest extent we could fit every one on earth in the continent of Australia; in addition, we could own at least one acre of real estate per person. So the traditional ‘Overpopulation’ has been not a new discovery on fact but an old ‘myth’ carried through the centuries from Pagan Babylon through the Babylonian family of thought.

    Traditions of Monotheism can be traced back to Pre-Babylon. Halley summarizes Dr. Stephen Langdon of Oxford University: “the earliest Babylonian inscriptions suggest that man’s first religion was a belief in one God, and from that there was a rapid decline into Polytheism and Idolatry (See Langdon’s “Semitic Mythology,” and the “Field Museum- Oxford University Expedition to Kish,” By Henry Field, Leaflet 28).” 6

    The traditional Apocalyptic cult more than likely has it’s roots in Babylon. “According to notes scribbled in the margins of a Bible owned by Branch Davidian Robyn Bunds, one of Koresh’s wives, …certain verses were highlighted, ¾ of them were references directly to Babylon (and the misinterpreting of those verses) Isaiah 4 and 13, etc.” 7 Richard Abanes, a cult expert notes “Even Koresh himself quoted Jeremiah 50:22 to the FBI in an April 9 letter he sent out from the compound.” 8 It is worth noting that the first verse of Jeremiah 50 says: “The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.” The verse Koresh quoted was directly in reference to Babylon. So one can see the importance of what this ‘Babylon mentality’ is doing to our society.

    Traditions of Confession (to a Priest; Roman Catholicism) can Be trace to Babylon. A Historian A. H. Sayce reports: “The ritual texts show that both public and private confession was practiced in Babylonia.”9

    Traditions of false Divination and Prophecy: As is Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves record their false Divinations and prophesies to their own demise: In their very own Watchtower Magazine they predicted that God’s Kingdom would come in 1925: “…Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob…to the condition of human perfection.”10 Then a year after arrival the blow hits the organization: “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so.”11 What happened to the Prophecy? Well…”The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything.”12

    Fig. 2.

    Babylonian Family (Part B)

    Libertarianism (Broad Mindedness)

    (Perfection) Father- There is no perfection. There is not God, because all is God. There is no where to go. Just here. No absolute truth at all, yet all has truth. Hinduism: Relativism, Darwinian, Atheism, Agnosticism, New Age, Humanism, Monism, Pantheism, Gnosticism, Christian Mind Sciences. ‘Knosis’ = Knowledge that we have no Father of thought (no absolute authority), a knowledge that we don’t know anything for certain, not even if we are really here. Knowledge just comes and goes from nothingness into nothingness, no meaning no anything…

    (Medium)- We are the medium in this ‘New age.’ Mankind, the product of a formula, Has and ever will be evolving higher every day in every way. When you become the means you never have an end, because you are a process of promise not a recipient of promise.

    (Hope)- Striving to be the predator and not the prey. Animism. Violent behavior. Disrespect for lower classes. Survival of the fittest. No tolerance for the weak, rather ‘weed out the weak’ so the gene pool may be stronger, and the ‘New Age’ may survive.

    (Depravity) Child Crying- Loss of morality due to animistic behavior, loss of sanctity of life, society forgets how to ‘blush.’ Get rid of the child and it won’t cry.

    (Recipient of Promise) – Virgin Mother Earth (she had immaculate conception, and bang- hominids).
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  4. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    United States

    The Babylonian family of thought (Part B) is closely associated with the first but it is unique in one way. They are experts on saying for certain that we know nothing for certain, whereas the prior had several things they counted as ‘absolute.’ This idea gives play to what they call ‘enlightenment.’ Which is needed for ‘salvation’ directly or indirectly. Science looks to ‘enlightenment’ for salvation, and so does Buddhism:

    The second Babylonian family of though has traditions that link to Babylon as well: For instance Polygamy and Astrology (early form of divination, fortune telling).

    Traditions of Adultery and Prostitution and Polygamy can be traced back to Babylon. Halley again notes “Babylonians had many gods and goddesses…the moon God had a wife named Ningal (Mother Goddess, Nina, Ishtar)…She was the deification of the sex passion; her worship required…sacred prostitution in connection with her sanctuaries …was a universal custom among the women…entertained male worshipers in disgraceful ceremonies, every maid, wife or widow had to officiate at least once in her lifetime in these rites.” 13

    Traditions of Astrology (God’s of locality): Marduk made courses for the stars, and he determined the length of the months. Local gods who needed people to take care of their houses while they worked- “Now are you appointed to serve us and sustain us while we perform them. Who is to tend our homes and give us our food?” Marduk suspended a victorious Bow in heaven as a sign after defeating the god that caused the flood. The Bow was a constellation not a rainbow. 14

    Fig. 3.

    Jerusalem family of thought

    Literalism (Narrow Mindedness, Biblical)

    (Perfection) Father – God (originator, creator)

    (Medium) To have Connections with the Big man- Son - reconciliatory to father, Y’shua the Messiah Jesus of Nazereth, Prince of Peace (salem) Melchizadec our high priest.

    (Hope) Holy Ghost- the testifier, the comforter, the promise- engagement ring, the star of hope: nothing says I love you like a diamond.

    (Depravity) Child Crying- (Never needed to Cry…) Jesus was devine, he never lacked anything, he was a perfect child, man/God.

    (Recipient of Promise) Mother, Wife- In the Biblical view of the cosmic family we are the Bride of Christ, and God (the son and the father’s bride). Humans gave birth to the son of God. Yet the son of God will marry the human race.

    The Star Shines where the Baby Cries. It’s ok to be ‘Narrow minded’, as long as your not ‘closed minded’ to learn. It’s ok to be ‘Narrow Minded’ when some are so ‘Broad Minded’ and ‘Open Minded’ that their brains fall out. The Star of shines still, through the centuries, it shines a little hope on the subject: “Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.” (-Matthew 2:2 KJV) If you are looking for hope, for enlightenment, for a glimmer of a chance in this life and afterlife aim at the stars. Where is the star? The star shines where the Baby cries. What baby cried? What Star? The almost forgotten star in Bethlehem that signed a message above the baby king lying in a food trough. The Kings of the land remembered God’s Birthday Party and came to it. “Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.” (-Matthew 2:2 KJV). Jesus is the hope, the star. All else are distortions of the original, and when you reveal the original worldviews as what they really are you disarm them. We are not mistaken as Readers Digest makes the ancient Egyptians who believed the umbrella could absorb deity from the sun and transfer it into Pharaoh’s body. 15 It’s ironic that lightening has a tendency to strike umbrellas. The Jerusalem family of thought is simply profound and profoundly simple. Christian Orthodoxy today is as non-conformist as they come. Because the two most logical Religions are Hinduism and Fundamental Christianity, according to C.S. Lewis (Former Professor of Renaissance Literature at Oxford and respected as one of the leading thinkers of his time) said:

    “The two most advanced religious systems are Hinduism and Christianity…Hinduism absorbs all Religions while Christianity excludes all Religions”16

    These first two Babylonian WV/ Religions correspond to but are not limited two that of present day Hinduism and New age. The purpose of these ‘Not so new Babylon Religions’ can be found in their ‘Bible’ (A course in Miracles); in which, Ankerburg/Weldon, Ph.D. -New Age experts’ report on in their ‘New Age Ency.’ Page 1:

    A course in Miracles is a daily, one-year New Age occult devotional, allegedly revealed by Jesus Christ Himself to …divinely inspire readers to “complete the atonement.” This involves revising one’s worldview into conformity with a New Age, Hindu belief, and the simultaneous unlearning and undermining of the “evil” beliefs of orthodox Christianity.”17

    As you have seen, the fruit of these first two WV (worldviews) and all of its branches have been only destructive and divisive all through History. But the Third (Jerusalem Family) has been handed down by our ancestors and has done more for democracy, individual freedom , woman’s rights, and civil liberty in the known world than any other single idea, tradition, and philosophy. Why? Because the Jerusalem family of thought (The Original Biblical worldview) is the only view that maintains a consistently perpetual sanctity, a holy respect, and a reverential aspect of the Father God and resultantly; a love of Mankind in entirety. I don’t know about you but a God who loves me is much more appealing to follow and respect. God loves us, the Bible says we are his Bride. And we wait with expectation for His return Home from Work…

    Jesus said in the The last six verses of the Bible:

    “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David (David Lived 1010-970 B.C. He was the second and greatest King of Jerusalem: Israel’s capital. He was the greatest king Historically, Jesus is the Greatest King of Jerusalem Spiritually), and the Bright and Morning Star. And the Spirit and the Bride say Come (‘come’=Aramaic for ‘Maranatha’). And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst Come. And whosoever will (-desires), let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city (-New Jerusalem), and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly (I come suddenly). Amen (so be it). Even so come, Lord Jesus. (Apostle John concludes the Bible with..) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all (Notice grace is the last thing God wants us to think about..we are saved by grace[Ephesians 2:8]life is a gift, because our Maker/Husband/God and King loves us) . Amen (So be it).” (-REVELATION 22:16b-21 in the KJV; quotes added.)


    Ankerburg, J. John Weldon. Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs. Eugene, Oregon:

    Harvest House, 1996.

    Ardagh, Philip. North American Myths & Legends. New Jersey: Dillon, 1996.

    Dalley, Stephanie. Myths From Mesopotamia. New York: Oxford, 1992

    Gaster, Theodor H. The Oldest Stories in the World. Boston: Beacon Press, 1952.

    Halley, Henry H. Halley’s Bible Handbook. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1965.

    Hislop, Rev. Alexander. The Two Babylons. New Jersey: Louzeax Brothers, 1959.

    Hutchings, N.W. Babylon: It’s coming Destruction. April 1998, vol 5. No.4 Keeping

    Time On God’s Prophetic Clock L-838. South West Radio Church. Reprinted by

    permission. <best.com>.

    Lewis, C.S. Surprised by Joy. New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1955.

    Martin, Walter. The Kingdom of the Cults. CD-ROM. Minneapolis: Bethany House,


    Miller, Gordon L. The way of the English Mystics. Connecticut: Morehouse, 1996.

    Missler, Chuck. The Mystery of Babylon. Coeur d’alene ID: Koinonia House, 1994.

    Polley, Jane. The stories Behind Everyday Things. New York: The Reader’s Digest

    Association, 1980.

    Sayce, A.H. The Religions of Ancient Egypt and Babylonia. Edinburgh, 1902.

    Samples, Kenneth; Erwin de Xastro, Richard Abanes, and Robert Lyle. Prophets of the

    Apocalypse: David Koresh and Other American Messiahs. Grand Rapids: Baker

    Books, 1994.

    The watchtower B&C Society. Millions Now Living Will Never Die. New York:

    WTB&C Inc, 1918.

    Veyne, Paul A History of Private Life. Cambridge: Harvard University, 1987.

    Pg. 89.

    Works Cited

    1 Ardagh, Philip. North American Myths & Legends. New Jersey: Dillon, 1996.

    2 Ibid.

    3 Dalley, Stephanie. Myths From Mesopotamia. New York: Oxford, 1992.

    4 Ibid.

    5 Ibid.

    6 Halley, Henry H. Halley’s Bible Handbook. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1965.

    7 Samples, Kenneth; Erwin de Xastro, Richard Abanes, and Robert Lyle. Prophets of the

    Apocalypse: David Koresh and Other American Messiahs. Grand Rapids: Baker

    Books, 1994.

    8 Ibid.

    9 Sayce, A.H. The Religions of Ancient Egypt and Babylonia. Edinburgh, 1902. P. 497.

    10 The watchtower B&T Society. Millions Now Living Will Never Die. New York:

    WTB&T Inc, 1918. Pg. 89

    11 The watchtower B&T Society. Watchtower. New York:

    WTB&T Inc, 1926. P. 232

    12 The watchtower B&T Society. Watchtower. New York:

    WTB&T Inc, 1925. P.56

    13 Haley; Ibid.

    14 Daley; Ibid.

    15 Polley, Jane. The stories Behind Everyday Things. New York: The Reader’s Digest

    Association, 1980.

    16 Lewis, C.S. Surprised by Joy. New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1955.

    17 Ankerburg, J. John Weldon. Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs. Eugene, Oregon:

    Harvest House, 1996.
  5. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    Good story, should win an award in the religious fiction category.
  6. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Hi CH,
    I didn't even read the O.P. My book reading for today is over!
    And I happen to agree with you re Revelation. I've never read it all the way through.

    However, the reason I'm writing is because you stated that you are not likely to worship any beast --- since you are an agnostic.

    Just to let you know that in the faith of Christianity there is no such position as being neutral. One is either serving God or he is serving satan.

    Besides the fact that Jesus stated that who is not for Him is against Him,
    Matthew 12:30 it makes logical sense that since following God requires a conscious decision....if that decision is not made, you are not following God.

    Just an observation that many do not consider.
  7. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

    What’s your point?
  8. Matt5

    Matt5 Member

    Maybe you should take a look at Islamic prophecy. For example, it gives us the name of the false prophet - (Islamic) Jesus.
  9. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    United States
    There’s also the possibility that satan doesn’t exist... you could be saying ‘if you’re not serving Tinker Bell, you’re automatically serving Captain Hook!’... I’m more than willing to serve god and shun satan, I would just some some small piece of evidence first.
  10. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    The wind blows and you do not see it...
    But it exists.

    Your response is rather silly since God and satan DO exist.
    Because you do not believe this does not make it so.

    God is outside of time,,,what proof would you need?
    Do we know what was just before the Big Bang?
    and neither will we ever know, because there was NOTHING.

    I refer you to Pascal's wager.
  11. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    United States
    I have good evidence to believe in wind. I cannot see it, but I can see what it does. I don’t see anything god does. There’s a better natural explanation to everything. Just as I don’t credit spirits for the rustling of leaves, I no longer credit god for natural occurrences.

    Pascal’s Wager can be used for any religion. Why are you so confident that Allah and Zeus don’t exist? You’re an atheist to thousands of gods, I’m just adding one more to the list.
  12. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Allah exists.
    Zeus doesn't.

    Maybe you're not an agnostic...
    You sound more like an atheist.

    This is your prerogative. I'm not here to convince you.
    Just want to say that you could see what God does too, but you have to be willing to see it.

    "I no longer"...maybe you've just stopped believing.
    So...what created everything?
    How did everything get formed?
    How did the information get into a cell?
    What natural explanation could explain anything?
    Who put the laws of nature into effect?
    Why does math work?
    Do we get moral law from some entity? Or did man make it up?

    To the believer, no proof is necessary.
    To the non-believer no proof is sufficient.

    There are not thousands of gods.
    Just ONE.
  13. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    United States
    By Allah I obviously meant the Muslim idea of god which is incompatible with Christianity... not merely an undefined Arabic word.

    You could see Zeus does, but you have to be willing to look for it. I can’t explain what created everything without god, but you can’t explain who shoots love arrows without Cupid. You’re asking the wrong questions.

    what makes you think your god hypothesis is better than the others?

    Atheist and agnostic are not exclusive terms. I am both.
  14. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

    You can detect the wind with a velocimeter.
  15. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Allah is the arabic word for God.
    There is only one God....the God that created time and everything in it.
    God Almighty is the same God in Islam, Judaism and Christianity. And the only God in the entire universe.

    Islam is incompatible with Christianity but for other reasons.

    What is my God hypothesis? How do you know what I believe?

    Agnostic and atheist may not be exclusive terms, but that's how they're used nowadays and unless we're willing to send everyone back to school,,,we'll have to use them in that way:
    Atheist: Does not believe in a superior being.
    Agnostic: Is not sure.

    So I'm asking the wrong questions?
    What are the correct questions?
  16. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    God created the wind and so it can be detected.
    God created all the laws of science.

    You can keep waiting for proof that God exists,,,
    in the meantime, could you explain to me how all this comes from NOTHING since it has now been determined by those scientists you so depend on that the Universe DID have a beginning and did not always exist as they believed till the 60's.

    Dr. Lawrence Krauss is so desperate that he's trying to explain how SOMETHING can come from NOTHING (by redefining what nothing means.)
  17. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

    Why would I do that? Who said there was nothing before the observable universe?

    I don’t think ‘nothing’ is possible.
  18. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

    That’s an interesting claim. What is the evidence for that?
  19. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Fire for the Earth! (Luke 12:49) Supporter

    United States
    ....well, there goes my farm! :rolleyes:
  20. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oh, I see!
    You make up your own rules.

    SCIENTISTS say there was nothing before the Big Bang.
    And they really can't go back before that.
    Interesting, isn't it?