Can anything be done to reverse the trend of 70%+ of Christian youth leaving the Church after 18?

[South Bound]

Random articles like these look into the problem.

The Real Reasons Young Adults Drop Out of Church
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ed...-reasons-young-adults-drop-out-of-church.html

Christian Youth In America Are Leaving the Church
http://crossexamined.org/youth-exodus-problem/

5 Possible Reasons Young Americans Are Leaving Church and Christianity Behind
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/


I have seen it myself at my church for over 20 years, as these youth sang in the childrens choir, was in Sunday school, every church play, accepted Jesus as a teen and by time they are over 18 and go off to college 2/3 never come back and when they do, they are a completely different person spiritually.

I know the adults lead by example, so if grown ups are late to church all the time, why should a child then young adult want to come on time either. If many of the adults dont read their bibles, there is no way they can answer a young adults question other than say go ask the pastor.


Can anything be done to reverse this trend or this is just the future or Christian youth?

Random articles like these look into the problem.

The Real Reasons Young Adults Drop Out of Church
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ed...-reasons-young-adults-drop-out-of-church.html

Christian Youth In America Are Leaving the Church
http://crossexamined.org/youth-exodus-problem/

5 Possible Reasons Young Americans Are Leaving Church and Christianity Behind
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/


I have seen it myself at my church for over 20 years, as these youth sang in the childrens choir, was in Sunday school, every church play, accepted Jesus as a teen and by time they are over 18 and go off to college 2/3 never come back and when they do, they are a completely different person spiritually.

I know the adults lead by example, so if grown ups are late to church all the time, why should a child then young adult want to come on time either. If many of the adults dont read their bibles, there is no way they can answer a young adults question other than say go ask the pastor.


Can anything be done to reverse this trend or this is just the future or Christian youth?

I don't think this is the tragedy you think it is.

Just because they've been dragged to church by their parents their whole lives doesn't mean they're Christians and doesn't mean they should receive automatic church membership. Rather than just some sort of confirmation process when they're twelve or thirteen, they should be treated as any other candidate for church membership. If they're eligible for church membership, then they are baptized and made members, with all of the responsibilities of church membership. If not, then they're more than welcome to visit with their family.

It's not "mean" and, no, it's not because we want the church to be an exclusive club. It's for both their sake and two protect the integrity of the church.

Before we start ringing our hands about their leaving, let's find out whether or not they should have been there in the first place.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think any of us can do is speak for ourselves, right? Because you say you haven't experienced any "directly observable, quantifiable, classifiable, or otherwise empirically (or emotively) pronounced" manifestations of God working in you life, does not exclude it from being someone else's reality and experience.

Sure, I'm open to the possibility that some fellow Christians have experienced what could be described as pronounced manifestations of God in their lives. And if so, that's great, and something to celebrate! However, it has been my experience thus far in a majority of the instances I've encountered, that many Christians either: 1) Claim as being miraculous various phenomena they've experienced which, when analyzed for full authenticity, ultimately fail to show anything of substance, or 2) Adhere to a muddled and vague idea as to what constitutes a true, biblical level 'miracle,' so that anything and everything, from praying for and finding a parking space, to "overcoming" illnesses like cancer (through chemo no less), count as....'miracles.' I'm sorry.....those things are not miracles; perhaps they're general manifestations of God's Providence, but not bonafide miracles.

The mental muddle that the Church often puts itself through regarding what constitutes 'true' manifestations of God gives unbelievers further grist for the mill of unbelief. And, in my view, that is most unfortunate.

Btw, interesting avatar for a Christian...

Yes, it is. The question is, what do I actually "mean" by it? Let's just say, I'm not 'pro' Illuminati. Also, don't get used to my avatar since I tend to change it every few weeks.

Blessings,
2PhiloVoid

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Sure, I'm open to the possibility that some fellow Christians have experienced what could be described as pronounced manifestations of God in their lives. And if so, that's great, and something to celebrate! However, it has been my experience thus far in a majority of the instances I've encountered, that many Christians either: 1) Claim as being miraculous various phenomena they've experienced which, when analyzed for full authenticity, ultimately fail to show anything of substance, or 2) Adhere to a muddled and vague idea as to what constitutes a true, biblical level 'miracle,' so that anything and everything, from praying for and finding a parking space, to "overcoming" illnesses like cancer (through chemo no less), count as....'miracles.' I'm sorry.....those things are not miracles; perhaps they're general manifestations of God's Providence, but not bonafide miracles.

I guess we are referring to two different things then... to me miracles are supernatural events that defy natural law whereas seeing the moving of the Holy Spirit is being spiritually aware of the interdealings of God with men... the wheels within wheels, if you will.

Yes, it is. The question is, what do I actually "mean" by it? Let's just say, I'm not 'pro' Illuminati. Also, don't get used to my avatar since I tend to change it every few weeks.

Blessings,
2PhiloVoid

Looking forward to your subsequent displays...

 

[Vicomte13]

Stop being judgemental, holier-than-thou, blind legalist hypocrites?

My Alpha problem with Christian legalism is that Christians don't even get the law right. They don't study the law as LAW, bound by the rules of legal interpretation. Instead, they make it more than what it was, or less than what it was, or unbind it from what it was bound, and then they dispense with it all in a flourish by saying "grace!"

And none of it works, because it isn't TRUE.

But if you try to correct anybody who is dug in on it, they dig in worse and worse, like a chigger.

Young people don't have a lifetime of compromising with nonsense in order to get by. They like truth, and they like it to follow logically from other truth. And in fact, God's Law, read correctly as Law, DOES make sense. But it doesn't say what Christian doctrine has pretended that it says. Christian doctrine is very often loudly proclaimed based on a sentence or two of Scripture completely denatured from the bulk of it. The illogic then shines through, and because people learn the illogic, and internalize it, they then repeat it, and what ends up is an unbelievable myth.

Also, young people are under sexual pressure from within. And when bad legalistic traditions are expressed through the Church, young people distance themselves from God because they've been told that God is a certain way, and they find they cannot possibly get close to living up to what God commands - or want to - so they walk away never to return, because Christians lie to young people about God's law of sex.

The primary example:
What does the Bible say about masturbation?
Answer - it says NOTHING WHATEVER about Female masturbation, at all.
Regarding males, God's law is: if a man has an emission of sperm, he is unclean until evening, and whatever the sperm touches is unclean until washed with water.

THAT'S IT.

The Catholic Church has said that masturbation is a mortal sin, and said it for 1700 years. And the Catholic Church has been wrong for 1700 years on that, imposing a monstrous and unworkable rule that is not in the Bible, that was MADE UP to address something that some pious puritanical OLD men considered a problem.

It's a "problem" - it's unclean, just like defecation, and shouldn't be done in public. But a MORTAL SIN? Not according to the printed law of God it isn't. You have to ADD to the Law of God, and SUBTRACT FROM the law of God, to get to where the Catholics got - and adding and subtracting from the Law is itself a sin.

If God did not EXPLICITLY prohibit something, it is not prohibited. And God never gave anybody, neither Jew NOR APOSTLE, the power to make NEW LAW to bind Christians by sin. He gave the Apostles the power to release sin or not release sin, but what IS sin is determined exclusively by God alone, and is all revealed, and if the Church adds ANYTHING to that, then the CHURCH ITSELF sins - and becomes part of the problem.

And young people see the sin and they flee from it. Rightly.

Remember, the Churches upheld black slavery in America and the social order behind it, for the most part. During World War I, the Anglicans had a minister preaching that if Jesus were alive then, he'd be in the trenches with a rifle fighting the Germans. (Why? Because the British Empire was a moral good? What a JOKE!)

See, when the Church does that, the Church betrays God and departs from truth, and young people see it, and they shun the evil that the Church has housed.

THAT is the problem.

You cannot claim that you speak with authority if you're molesting children, or supporting apartheid, or if your preachers live rich lives - because you're self-evidently an agent of Satan if you do any of that. And if the organized Church cannot SAY SO and immediately act against it, then IT is covering for Satan and reluctant to stand for purity in God.

If, then, at the same time it is ADDING to God's purity by lying and saying, contrary to God's revealed law, that simply adolescent masturbation is a MORTAL SIN - well, then you've run out on the truth and you're simply an agent of Satan - but you BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE HOLY. Thus, the Churches stand as so many whitewashed tombs, and young people RIGHTLY are squeamish about it and flee from it.

Of course, the society is ALSO in Satan's grip, so masturbation turns into inappropriate content, then free sex, which turns into abortion...and then the full flower of evil blossoms outside of the Church, matching the evil that has grown up WITHIN the Christian doctrine.

There IS a Truth, and it's Gods, and he put it in his law in its various incarnations. And it's there to see, but you can't ADD TO IT in order to capture some behavior that YOU think is evil. Nor can you subtract from it to empower yourself to do what is wrong.

But men want to do precisely that. And when they do it, it's over as far as keeping young people believing - they smell the lie and they retreat from it.

The problem is not impossible to address, because the Truth IS there. But it's impossible to address when men love and cling to lies. And most do. Not all.

 

[Padres1969]

I'd be interested to know how many of these return to the church after they get settled and start families.

So would I. My parents did when they had their kids and were starting us in school/formal education. And I've now started doing the same with my family poised to grow, albeit I returned to a different denomination, but still the church of Christ. I suspect my family is not unique in this regard.

 

[Albion]

So would I. My parents did when they had their kids and were starting us in school/formal education. And I've now started doing the same with my family poised to grow, albeit I returned to a different denomination, but still the church of Christ. I suspect my family is not unique in this regard.

It's very common, I'd say.

 

[HarvestTheFields]

I am 22, my sister is 24, and we are the only ones in our church between the ages of 19 and 28. There was a time when we were in a youth group with about 20 people around our age.

Many went off to go to college, many just stopped coming to church, some moved away, and others starting working on Sundays. None of them have become atheists/agnostic, but they are definitely less devout than they once were.

My sister and I started teaching Sunday school in junior high, so we have always been involved in some sort of ministry. Our pastor used to correctly say "going to church doesn't make you a christian." I think many of the youth took this as "you don't have to go to church". Without consistent church attendance, basically all of them lost their passion for Christ. As of now, none of them have "come back" to the church yet. And like some of you stated about, none of them ever really learned any scripture (partially because of their inconsistent church attendance and bible studies). Some of them have moved in with their significant other and are completely unaware that they are living in sin.

Selfishly, it's kind of a pain to have to talk to either young teenagers, or people in their late 20s. It can be hard to form very strong friendships when no one can relate to anything you're going through at this part of your life.

Luckily, I think my church has already learned from this, and the next generation looks promising.

 

[Padres1969]

I am 22, my sister is 24, and we are the only ones in our church between the ages of 19 and 28. There was a time when we were in a youth group with about 20 people around our age.

Many went off to go to college, many just stopped coming to church, some moved away, and others starting working on Sundays. None of them have become atheists/agnostic, but they are definitely less devout than they once were.

My sister and I started teaching Sunday school in junior high, so we have always been involved in some sort of ministry. Our pastor used to correctly say "going to church doesn't make you a christian." I think many of the youth took this as "you don't have to go to church". Without consistent church attendance, basically all of them lost their passion for Christ. As of now, none of them have "come back" to the church yet. And like some of you stated about, none of them ever really learned any scripture (partially because of their inconsistent church attendance and bible studies). Some of them have moved in with their significant other and are completely unaware that they are living in sin.

Selfishly, it's kind of a pain to have to talk to either young teenagers, or people in their late 20s. It can be hard to form very strong friendships when no one can relate to anything you're going through at this part of your life.

Luckily, I think my church has already learned from this, and the next generation looks promising.

The next generation always looks promising, until they hit the late teen years and it starts all over again with most drifting away. Polling shows that it's already occurred in even greater numbers with the younger half of the Millennial generation than it did with my age group from the first decade of the Millennials.

 

[Cimorene]

I see a huge divide between what the public school systems are teaching the kids and what they learn at church or at home. Evolution is probably the biggest dichotomy that youths face as science in schools rarely agrees with the truths of the Bible. Seeing how the kids are in these learning environments longer than any other form of supervised education, it shouldn't be a real surprise that the kids fall away from believing the "stories" they were taught as kids. "Real" science happens in academia, so they think because this is all they know. I had a 10 year old neighbour come up to me and challenge me that man came from apes and not God because her teacher said so and why would the teacher lie, etc... so sad to see the innocence ripped away fro these young ones as they are indoctrinated into satans kingdom. Add in unsupervised social media use and too little parental concern or control and you get what we got...

Tbh I think it's the opposite of what you're saying. The only divide is the one that creationists created. It's the fault of bad theology & pride that goes into defending it. Not the Bible & def. not evolution. I'd never heard of anybody objecting to evolution until a friend from school who is a member here wrote a huge research paper for her agnotology class on creationism. It shocked me that Christians would still have a problem w evolution. There is no dichotomy. Tbh as a 16 yo on this forum it's posts by creationists that make me feel a self-consciousness & doubt about Christianity I never had before. There's also a lot of nastiness by Christians here. A Christian man wished cancer on ppl yesterday bc they disagreed w him! It got deleted but it's not something that can be forgotten.

 

[createdtoworship]

Random articles like these look into the problem.

The Real Reasons Young Adults Drop Out of Church
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ed...-reasons-young-adults-drop-out-of-church.html

Christian Youth In America Are Leaving the Church
http://crossexamined.org/youth-exodus-problem/

5 Possible Reasons Young Americans Are Leaving Church and Christianity Behind
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/


I have seen it myself at my church for over 20 years, as these youth sang in the childrens choir, was in Sunday school, every church play, accepted Jesus as a teen and by time they are over 18 and go off to college 2/3 never come back and when they do, they are a completely different person spiritually.

I know the adults lead by example, so if grown ups are late to church all the time, why should a child then young adult want to come on time either. If many of the adults dont read their bibles, there is no way they can answer a young adults question other than say go ask the pastor.


Can anything be done to reverse this trend or this is just the future or Christian youth?

something can be done.

but it involves a diminishing of blind faith and a search for real faith that is based on historic or other scientific fact.

faith does not have to be flying blind.

when a typical sunday school goer gets to college they simply get bashed by both athiests and evolutionists.

they are forced to hold contradictory view of this.

I created a think tank site just to deal with this particular problem, I was inspired by the article.

about a year ago.

but when you make a step away from blind devotion and faith, in order to be more objective, your joy and often times the gifts God gave through the Holy Spirit suffer, and or get put away.

ultimately, I feel it is worth it.

I have been debating this way for years. But I do miss the joy that comes with blind faith and trust in God.

They do not have to be mutually exclusive, I know.

but for me I simply have taken a harder road.

but when I do see faith in something as it relates to Christ , God and the Bible, I make sure it is not blind, but I also make sure to not take that faith for granted.

as many young people lose their faith after highchool.

but if more stepped up to the plate, and put thier kids, their family, and their friends first.

prayed for them, and taught them how to not back out of any argument, and in Boldness used the power God has invested in them, and turned it back to His glory.

We just may see a revival in the youth and not a departure.

( I have had maybe 5-6 friends leave the faith)

they were oonce on fire.

but either guilt God to them, when they fell to sin.

or doubt God to them, in one of these university settings.

and it's now happening in high School, not just college.

So that would be where I would start.

a return to rational thinking skills, and studying common fallacy in debate settings.

but I admit you are putting it all out there when you step down into this setting.

if you are not prepared, they will wipe the floor with both you and your Religion.

So it's best to get some books by norman geisler, or william lane craig, or even greg koukl, and hit the books.

others will follow suit.

but one thing it's not.

it's not a moral thing.

What I mean is this....

it's not that the kids are sinning too much and now they dont want God.

It's that when they sin, they are condemned by the enemy, with a coupling of doubt in say , an anthropology class in college, for example.

it's that combination, that results in a dissasterous recipe for departure.

Then then third step, which is usually after leaveing the faith.

a seared conciounce.

Hebrews 6, hebrews 10.

and a host of other verses in matthew, mentions leaving the faith.

after a ceared consciounse. Comes a life given to sin, once again. Usually this time, ten times a evil as before they were saved.

At this point, it's not apologetic book tha twill reach tehm.

at this point its, simple repentance, that is the cure.

And God is willing to grant repentance to anyone who will let him.

He will blow on the dimming ember, He will not break a bruised reed.

but He looks for any spark of life, and any indication of hope.

and restores it if we are willing.

but I wish the above on nobody, (the apostacy part).

I hope I don't go that way.

I know that I am not above anybody, and that if not by God's grace, I would be down and out.

But I also know that a Holy Life, if consistent.

keeps us ten steps past the enemy, in nearly every avenue he wants to tempt us with.

At that point, we need to still be humble enough, because then pride will go before a fall.

and God will allow satan to humble us.

So it's best to be Holy, and also Humble about it.

Which is approaching the perfection mark.

and no one at that point can do it.

So this is where we Call to God for help.

 

[createdtoworship]

The average evangelical church, in its attempt to be "relevant", has lost all relevance, and the kids know it.

relavance has become rationalism.

and kids don't think that rationalism is compatible with faith and miracles, because they have not been properly trained.

 

[Berean777]

Random articles like these look into the problem.

The Real Reasons Young Adults Drop Out of Church
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ed...-reasons-young-adults-drop-out-of-church.html

Christian Youth In America Are Leaving the Church
http://crossexamined.org/youth-exodus-problem/

5 Possible Reasons Young Americans Are Leaving Church and Christianity Behind
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/


I have seen it myself at my church for over 20 years, as these youth sang in the childrens choir, was in Sunday school, every church play, accepted Jesus as a teen and by time they are over 18 and go off to college 2/3 never come back and when they do, they are a completely different person spiritually.

I know the adults lead by example, so if grown ups are late to church all the time, why should a child then young adult want to come on time either. If many of the adults dont read their bibles, there is no way they can answer a young adults question other than say go ask the pastor.


Can anything be done to reverse this trend or this is just the future or Christian youth?

From the 1980s people like Walter Martin from the Christian Research Institute opposed the rapid emergence of liberal theology from within seminaries of churches and Christian colleges. Walter termed it the cult of liberal theology.

Here are the links to his sermon on the cult of liberal theology......

Christainity from within has been divided by political groups that follow certain pasters or worldly ideology of kingdom building. This is a power play group mentality from within the church and has all the hallmarks of inclusivity of membership within the groupies culture, that is, it comes down to the context of situation of us versus them, where them are of the same church corngregation but have been down classed without rights and pivillleges. Politics is a destroyer of faith and liberal thinkers and those who advocate it are power brokers who produce a dysfunct church that is divorced of the will of God, having the sole purpose to serve the group's ideological gaols. Young people who grow more intelligent and wiser are waking up to this fraud and hypocrisy, that is playing outflows out from within the church congregations and as a reactionary measure they are leaving it.

Walter Martin like myself hold the bishops responsible for this falling away from the faith. Bishops have moved from the course of faith and started a racketeering movement from within the Church, by prostituting themselves to worldly politics. Every bishop now days is a lawyer and very conversant in the political arena of the world and in so doing they have built around them a small country of people, zmongst their high networth clientele.

Young people grow up and realise, after questioning why their certain friends are treated special and have all the privileges and no matter how hard they try, it is never good enough and they always finding myself relegated from positions from within the church or college. Afte this they put two and two together and realise that they are second class citizens within their own congregations and it would be in their best interest to leave in search for greener pastures.

 

[Hoghead1]

I agree, Cimorene, that there is a lot of nastiness here. Usually, it is coming from right-wing Christians, who are notorious for that kind of thing. You should see how many here condemn all the church fathers, from Augustine to Luther, to Hell. I know more than one, elsewhere, who has insisted Billy Graham is going to go to hell unless he changes his wicked ways. Thank God, not all Christians are on the right. God doesn't want Christians on the right; God wants Christians to be right.

 

[Angeldove97]

I see a huge divide between what the public school systems are teaching the kids and what they learn at church or at home. Evolution is probably the biggest dichotomy that youths face as science in schools rarely agrees with the truths of the Bible.

Science is based on provable facts - religion/theology is up in the air, which is why science is taught over religion. Nothing wrong with that. While my parents weren't full blown Christians, they taught me the Christian faith and encouraged me to love science (I'm okay with believing God uses evolution in His ever changing Creation).

I don't believe that the authors who wrote the Bible understood Creation as we do now. Nothing wrong with that - it does not take away from having the True Faith in God at all. Science itself is ever changing as we learn more. Just as the Holy Spirit guides the Church into having the possibility of a deeper faith for those who seek it out.

As for those who leave the Church, that is their choice - I don't think the Church should bend to the whims of those who aren't happy with the beliefs the Church has. What's the point of faith then?

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I'd be interested to know how many of these return to the church after they get settled and start families.

Exactly. I imagine that many do come back. Not that it wouldn't be better if hadn't left in the first place . . .

 

[Root of Jesse]

My Alpha problem with Christian legalism is that Christians don't even get the law right. They don't study the law as LAW, bound by the rules of legal interpretation. Instead, they make it more than what it was, or less than what it was, or unbind it from what it was bound, and then they dispense with it all in a flourish by saying "grace!"

And none of it works, because it isn't TRUE.

But if you try to correct anybody who is dug in on it, they dig in worse and worse, like a chigger.

Young people don't have a lifetime of compromising with nonsense in order to get by. They like truth, and they like it to follow logically from other truth. And in fact, God's Law, read correctly as Law, DOES make sense. But it doesn't say what Christian doctrine has pretended that it says. Christian doctrine is very often loudly proclaimed based on a sentence or two of Scripture completely denatured from the bulk of it. The illogic then shines through, and because people learn the illogic, and internalize it, they then repeat it, and what ends up is an unbelievable myth.

Also, young people are under sexual pressure from within. And when bad legalistic traditions are expressed through the Church, young people distance themselves from God because they've been told that God is a certain way, and they find they cannot possibly get close to living up to what God commands - or want to - so they walk away never to return, because Christians lie to young people about God's law of sex.

The primary example:
What does the Bible say about masturbation?
Answer - it says NOTHING WHATEVER about Female masturbation, at all.
Regarding males, God's law is: if a man has an emission of sperm, he is unclean until evening, and whatever the sperm touches is unclean until washed with water.

THAT'S IT.

The Catholic Church has said that masturbation is a mortal sin, and said it for 1700 years. And the Catholic Church has been wrong for 1700 years on that, imposing a monstrous and unworkable rule that is not in the Bible, that was MADE UP to address something that some pious puritanical OLD men considered a problem.

It's a "problem" - it's unclean, just like defecation, and shouldn't be done in public. But a MORTAL SIN? Not according to the printed law of God it isn't. You have to ADD to the Law of God, and SUBTRACT FROM the law of God, to get to where the Catholics got - and adding and subtracting from the Law is itself a sin.

If God did not EXPLICITLY prohibit something, it is not prohibited. And God never gave anybody, neither Jew NOR APOSTLE, the power to make NEW LAW to bind Christians by sin. He gave the Apostles the power to release sin or not release sin, but what IS sin is determined exclusively by God alone, and is all revealed, and if the Church adds ANYTHING to that, then the CHURCH ITSELF sins - and becomes part of the problem.

And young people see the sin and they flee from it. Rightly.

Remember, the Churches upheld black slavery in America and the social order behind it, for the most part. During World War I, the Anglicans had a minister preaching that if Jesus were alive then, he'd be in the trenches with a rifle fighting the Germans. (Why? Because the British Empire was a moral good? What a JOKE!)

See, when the Church does that, the Church betrays God and departs from truth, and young people see it, and they shun the evil that the Church has housed.

THAT is the problem.

You cannot claim that you speak with authority if you're molesting children, or supporting apartheid, or if your preachers live rich lives - because you're self-evidently an agent of Satan if you do any of that. And if the organized Church cannot SAY SO and immediately act against it, then IT is covering for Satan and reluctant to stand for purity in God.

If, then, at the same time it is ADDING to God's purity by lying and saying, contrary to God's revealed law, that simply adolescent masturbation is a MORTAL SIN - well, then you've run out on the truth and you're simply an agent of Satan - but you BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE HOLY. Thus, the Churches stand as so many whitewashed tombs, and young people RIGHTLY are squeamish about it and flee from it.

Of course, the society is ALSO in Satan's grip, so masturbation turns into inappropriate content, then free sex, which turns into abortion...and then the full flower of evil blossoms outside of the Church, matching the evil that has grown up WITHIN the Christian doctrine.

There IS a Truth, and it's Gods, and he put it in his law in its various incarnations. And it's there to see, but you can't ADD TO IT in order to capture some behavior that YOU think is evil. Nor can you subtract from it to empower yourself to do what is wrong.

But men want to do precisely that. And when they do it, it's over as far as keeping young people believing - they smell the lie and they retreat from it.

The problem is not impossible to address, because the Truth IS there. But it's impossible to address when men love and cling to lies. And most do. Not all.

Actually, the Catholic Church's law about masturbation is not about the act itself. It's about the act of sexual intercourse being with your spouse. Any act of sexual pleasure that happens outside the bond of marriage is against the Law of God. Masturbation is taking sex and turning it inward, an act of selfishness, when it is supposed to be an outward gift to your spouse, an act of love. That's why it's considered wrong.
I look at the Sexual realm differently. I see what God intends, what man does with it, how we've liberalized the pleasure of sex into something selfish, rather than something self-less, and seen divorce rates skyrocket, illegitimate children skyrocket, sexually transmitted disease skyrocket in incidences and numbers, the rise of homosexuality and other forms of 'sexuality'. If we look back to what God intended, we see that it is, simply, an act of giving between a man and a woman, married in God's eyes.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If God did not EXPLICITLY prohibit something, it is not prohibited.

That's one way to look at it, but it's rather simplistic, wouldn't you say? Jesus corrected that/your type of thinking in The Sermon on the Mount.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I am 22, my sister is 24, and we are the only ones in our church between the ages of 19 and 28. There was a time when we were in a youth group with about 20 people around our age.

Many went off to go to college, many just stopped coming to church, some moved away, and others starting working on Sundays. None of them have become atheists/agnostic, but they are definitely less devout than they once were.

My sister and I started teaching Sunday school in junior high, so we have always been involved in some sort of ministry. Our pastor used to correctly say "going to church doesn't make you a christian." I think many of the youth took this as "you don't have to go to church". Without consistent church attendance, basically all of them lost their passion for Christ. As of now, none of them have "come back" to the church yet. And like some of you stated about, none of them ever really learned any scripture (partially because of their inconsistent church attendance and bible studies). Some of them have moved in with their significant other and are completely unaware that they are living in sin.

Selfishly, it's kind of a pain to have to talk to either young teenagers, or people in their late 20s. It can be hard to form very strong friendships when no one can relate to anything you're going through at this part of your life.

Luckily, I think my church has already learned from this, and the next generation looks promising.

I think that by the time young ppl leave off coming to church meetings, not to return, the battle has already been lost. It's not just a matter of keeping them coming to the place where Christians meet, it's more fundamentally about each believer grasping the vital importance of daily, personal Bible reading and prayer. If these activities are not already being carried out in a spirit of Acts 2.42, then all the persuasion, entertainment, etc. in the world will not keep young ppl coming. If these activities are already part of one's private life, then the wish to meet with others who do similarly will also result.

 

[Vicomte13]

Actually, the Catholic Church's law about masturbation is not about the act itself. It's about the act of sexual intercourse being with your spouse. Any act of sexual pleasure that happens outside the bond of marriage is against the Law of God. Masturbation is taking sex and turning it inward, an act of selfishness, when it is supposed to be an outward gift to your spouse, an act of love. That's why it's considered wrong.
I look at the Sexual realm differently. I see what God intends, what man does with it, how we've liberalized the pleasure of sex into something selfish, rather than something self-less, and seen divorce rates skyrocket, illegitimate children skyrocket, sexually transmitted disease skyrocket in incidences and numbers, the rise of homosexuality and other forms of 'sexuality'. If we look back to what God intended, we see that it is, simply, an act of giving between a man and a woman, married in God's eyes.

I don't want to fight, so I won't. But the assertion that the Church knows "What God intended" is where the argument falls apart. That's an assertion.

I assert that God intended precisely WHAT HE SAID. He made himself clear. He said not to subtract from what he said, but he also commanded not to ADD to it either.

So, what exactly did God say about masturbation? Nothing.

He did refer to the male [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: if a male has an emission of sperm, he's unclean until evening, and whatever the sperm gets on is unclean until evening.

That is God's opinion.

All of the rest of what you said is the opinion of the men of the Catholic Church. Their opinion is logical, but it is not the opinion of God. God's opinion is that he doesn't care. If he cared, he would have said so. He didn't, so he doesn't. And I think we have to respect that.

I think that when men insist on human opinion that goes beyond what God said, but say that God said it or thinks it, they lie. God didn't say that, and he never indicated that he thinks it. The men think it, and they claim that God thinks it because they're sure they're right with God, so God must think it. They lie, and I reject that.

God said exactly what he meant. On masturbation he said nothing, except that the result of male masturbation makes a man unclean until sunset.

And that is where men should leave it. That's where I will leave it.

 

[Vicomte13]

That's one way to look at it, but it's rather simplistic, wouldn't you say? Jesus corrected that/your type of thinking in The Sermon on the Mount.

To the contrary. I would say that it is exactly the right way to look at it. Jesus did not "correct" my type of thinking on the Mount, he gave the NEW set of laws which govern the whole world under the New Covenant, as contrasted with the Law of Moses, which only ever pertained to Jews, and only ever promised Jews, descended from Abraham, a farm in Israel in this life.

Moses never, ever spoke of an offer of eternal life in Heaven with God. That is not what God said was the reward for keeping the law of Sinai. What God offered, exclusively to the circumcised descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was a farm in Israel in this life, if they obeyed all of his laws, commandments, statutes and ordinances. There is not a whiff of eternal life in it, and that law was not for the French or Irish or anybody else.

Jesus is the first, and only, one to offer ANYBODY (including Jews) eternal life. There is no offer of eternal life, or even life after death, anywhere in the Torah. That is not the deal. Christians err when they take Jesus' offer of eternal life under the New Covenant and read it into the Old Covenant with the Jews. It is a fundamental and absolute error.

Obey the entirety of the Law of Moses, there is no promise of Heaven. You get - nothing. Unless you're a circumcised descendant of Jacob living in Israel, then you get a farm in this life.

Obey Jesus, and you get forgiven at final judgment and a room in the City of God.

Two completely different offers. Christians erroneously assert that Jesus threw open the Mosaic Covenant to the world. Untrue. Jesus never promised anybody a farm in Israel. Likewise, Christians erroneously retroject the New Covenant on the Old Testament, pretending that obedience to the Law of Moses, if it could be done, would give eternal life. God never even remotely suggested any such thing.

God said what the covenants were, clearly. Do this, and this and this, and if you're Jacob's heir I will protect you on your farm in Israel. And do this, and this and this - follow me by obeying me, and you will live forever with God in his City, no matter who you are.

Two covenants, aimed at two very different people, with very different promises. Jews can be included in the New Covenant, if they follow Jesus by obeying his commandments.

So, on the Mount, Jesus gave the laws for the New Covenant. He was speaking to Jews, who had a traditional knowledge of their old law, so he compared and contrasted.

Jesus didn't say that the Old WAS this new law. Rather, he said "You have heard..." "BUT I SAY..." and he gave the new law - the one you have to follow if you want to live forever.

The Old Law didn't give eternal life not because it was too hard, but because God never PROMISED eternal life, or even life afte death, for following it. He promised a farm in Israel.

Jesus promised eternal life, and he gave a new law to the world for those who want it.

And we can't add to, or subtract from THAT. If we eat shellfish and we're not of Hebrew descent, we're not getting a farm in Israel from God no matter what we do.