Can anything be done to reverse the trend of 70%+ of Christian youth leaving the Church after 18?

[jimmyjimmy]

@thatbrian Not talking to you, my friend, I'm pretty sure we agree.

Of course we agree! I haven't gone to the dark side. Besides, the Bible (preached properly) is a far more exciting drama than Star Wars.

I feel like one potential problem is how the evangelical church has applied the great commission. Matthew 28:19-20 has become:

19 Therefore go and make [converts] of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to [do what feels right, because they're saved by grace anyway. And surely I am with always [except when I'm inconvenient to you], to the very end of the age.”

When I talk to other who group in the midst of the holiness movement, I hear an equally bad, but somewhat opposite problem, where churches have been insisting that people obey rules that God has never laid down, simply for the sake of holiness and "differentness". Implicit in this is the belief that holiness can be obtained through our own efforts, rather than by a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit.

On the one hand, we need to stop allowing salvation by grace through faith to be interpreted as a license to immorality or apathy. On the other, we need to emphasize that holiness comes not by our own efforts, but but God's work within us; all we can do is choose to be willing to be changed.

Very true! And the way to avoid falling off either side of the horse (legalism or antinomianism) is the gospel. We need to understand the gospel.

What has saved my life is coming to understand that the gospel is not the ABCs of the Christian life. It's the A-Z of the Christian life.

“The Christian Gospel is that I am so flawed that Jesus had to die for me, yet I am so loved and valued that Jesus was glad to die for me. This leads to deep humility and deep confidence at the same time. It undermines both swaggering and sniveling. I cannot feel superior to anyone, and yet I have nothing to prove to anyone. I do not think more of myself nor less of myself. Instead, I think of myself less.” - Tim Keller

 

[ViaCrucis]

On the one hand, we need to stop allowing salvation by grace through faith to be interpreted as a license to immorality or apathy. On the other, we need to emphasize that holiness comes not by our own efforts, but but God's work within us; all we can do is choose to be willing to be changed.

A good dose of the Law-Gospel Dialectic I think can do wonders here.

When the Law is rightly preached it condemns us in our sin, and reminds us that even our best efforts are tainted by sin. When the Gospel is rightly preached it pronounces us joyfully and wonderfully forgiven on Christ's account, apart from our own efforts.

"The Law says 'Do this' and it is never done. Grace says, 'Trust this' and everything is already done." - Martin Luther's 1518 Heidelberg Disputation

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can anything be done to reverse the trend of 70%+ of Christian youth leaving the Church after 18?
…

I doubt it. Christianity is just too divided IMHO.

I would also say that this appears to be a trend in some other religions, such as Judaism in particular and perhaps in Islam. I found this interesting and it rather shocked me a little concerning Jews leaving their religion:

http://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-4.htm

2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,..........

http://www.nycreligion.info/nationa...eaving-judaism-assimilating-christians-nones/
National survey shows Jews leaving Judaism,
assimilating, becoming Christians or “Nones”

Younger Jews are shifting to “no religion”

Jewish Millennials, those born after 1980s, are the most likely to identify themselves as not religious. 32% say that they would describe themselves as having no particular religion or are agnostic or atheist.
Alan Cooperman, deputy director of the Pew Center, called the drop in religious identity a “stunning” development. The shift to “None” in religion reflects a long term trend among American Jews.


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[JaeMelo]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but,

Proverbs 22:6 says:
“Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it”

According to this site if your kids are falling away "you" the parent are partly to blame, at the very least.

Apparently one of the case studies on the site linked above found that, when both parents were faithful and active in the church, 93 percent of their children remained faithful. When just one parent was faithful, 73 percent of their children remained faithful. When neither parent was particularly active in church, only 53 percent of their children stayed faithful. In those instances where neither parent was active at all and only attended church now and then, the percentage dropped to a mere 6 percent.

I can't back up that study but figured it be something worth mentioning here.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

What do you propose should be done to make you happy?! Should God stop his plans or bend the rules to tailor to you or anyone else's child's disobedience?! That would be unfair, no? That is not to say you are implying this but simply to show how selfish the flip side to the issue can be especially for the saved believers both deceased and alive who did/are actively doing Gods will with obedience and patiently waiting for his second coming.

However; why do you believe that your children will suffer eternal torment?! Have they fallen away? What makes you so sure your kids won't bounce back like I did? It took 5 years for the lightbulb in my head to go off.

Maybe you didn't read the post I quoted, which indicated you shouldn'tworry about those who have fallen away as long as you knew you were ok. It's like being happy you are in a lifeboat while watching your loved ones drown.

 

[Optimax]

We call that the Eucharist, and it's in most churches.

-CryptoLutheran

With respect to what you believe is the manifested presence of God.

I have to tell ya it is not even close to a real manifestation of God's Presence.

 

[ViaCrucis]

With respect to what you believe is the manifested presence of God.

I have to tell ya it is not even close to a real manifestation of God's Presence.

Seems to me like you should probably take your issue up with the Boss, I'm sure He'll be very interested to know that He doesn't count.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

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[JaeMelo]

Maybe you didn't read the post I quoted, which indicated you shouldn'tworry about those who have fallen away as long as you knew you were ok. It's like being happy you are in a lifeboat while watching your loved ones drown.

Smh, the point of that post totally went over your head. You've taken something of a bigger scope, something to rejoice over and cherry picked out a statement and made the overall intent of the message seem of somthing bad.

If your own salvation isn't enough for you to be happy then you have some work todo eh?! Assuming it is not too late, and if it is, what can you do?! Do you not think pondering on this for the rest of your life could possibly introduce some nasty consequences? It is already apparent you love your child/children, which is never a bad thing, however; if you get to the point were you value them more than God then you are as good as lost. At that point all of your efforts to draw closer to God in hopes of attaining salvation would've been for what?! Nothing!

If you have an issue with any of this, take it up with God through prayer. Your fight is not with me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

At that point all of your efforts to draw closer to God in hopes of attaining salvation would've been for what?! Nothing!

Fortunately for us that's not how salvation works, Ephesians 2:8-9

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JaeMelo]

Fortunately for us that's not how salvation works, Ephesians 2:8-9

-CryptoLutheran

Just because I mentioned the word efforts in regards to doing what the Lord requires of us in the same sentence as salvation doesn't mean I support salvation through works. I don't recall ever saying that salvation is granted through works. Please do not put words in my mouth.

We all know we are saved by grace through faith but that doesn't rule out the importance of ones efforts to do God's will; something that is evident of true faith. Please read James 2:17 below. Do we not make an effort to do God's will because of our faith in his word? Do we not make an effort to turn away from sin because of our faith in what is to come for unrepentant habitual sinners? Do we still not make an effort to obey the word because of our belief in what is to come?! If you were to lose faith and "fall away" wouldn't all of the above been a waste?! That is exactly what I was getting at in that post above towards the upset woman.

I was addressing that she could potentially be at risk if she continued to ponder on the choice made by her kids to walk from faith. She seemed to be quiet upset over the matter. Something like this can easily allow room for a growth of anger/hatred, possibly even cause a change of heart. Especially when you feel you've absolutely no control.

___________________________________________________________

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of
heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Smh, the point of that post totally went over your head. You've taken something of a bigger scope, something to rejoice over and cherry picked out a statement and made the overall intent of the message seem of somthing bad.

If your own salvation isn't enough for you to be happy then you have some work todo eh?! Assuming it is not too late, and if it is, what can you do?! Do you not think pondering on this for the rest of your life could possibly introduce some nasty consequences? It is already apparent you love your child/children, which is never a bad thing, however; if you get to the point were you value them more than God then you are as good as lost. At that point all of your efforts to draw closer to God in hopes of attaining salvation would've been for what?! Nothing!

If you have an issue with any of this, take it up with God through prayer. Your fight is not with me.

Personally, I'm agnostic because if questions like this.
I'm told the greatest love one could have is to lay down their lives for someone else. ..yet at the same time, I'm told that it's ok to abandon those you love to eternal torment as long as you end up with the prize for yourself.
Let me ask this ...suppose you find yourself in heaven, and are shown your child, suffering in hell. You are given the choice, remain in heaven knowing your child is suffering alone, or join your child in hell, providing some tiny bit of comfort to them by sharing their suffering.
What would you do?

 

[JaeMelo]

Personally, I'm agnostic because if questions like this.
I'm told the greatest love one could have is to lay down their lives for someone else. ..yet at the same time, I'm told that it's ok to abandon those you love to eternal torment as long as you end up with the prize for yourself.
Let me ask this ...suppose you find yourself in heaven, and are shown your child, suffering in hell. You are given the choice, remain in heaven knowing your child is suffering alone, or join your child in hell, providing some tiny bit of comfort to them by sharing their suffering.
What would you do?

Talk about a plot twist. I was here thinking you were actually Catholic worried about your kids salvation. Now that you have come out and admitted to being an agnostic that changes the entire ball game. I have to say because we do not share the same beliefs the likelihood of us seeing eye to eye on things like this are slim. Especially when it boils down to choosing between eternal life and the second death.

Now regarding your scenario. I don't know how you are going to take my response from an agnostic point of view. The only way I can answer you is with scriptures in hopes to comfort you. Now for starters you will never see anyone or anyones child burning in hell being tormented if you happened to be blessed with the opportunity of entering the new kingdom. Hell isn't some form of entertainment for people in heaven. No where in the bible does it say you will be subjected to watch people being tormented. As a matter of fact it states in

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:for the former things are passed away

The simple fact that you're considering joining someone in "hell" thinking you'll be abe to comfort them like its some family get-together worries me. Maybe someone else in here like a forum veteran can shed some light on this matter.

 

[Julie.S]

Nope. It's a fulfilment of prophecy that they would fall away in the end of times.

Can you show me this?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Talk about a plot twist. I was here thinking you were actually Catholic worried about your kids salvation. Now that you have come out and admitted to being non-believer that changes the entire ball game. I have so say because we do not share the same beliefs the likelihood of us seeing eye to eye on things like this are slim. Especially when it boils down to choosing between eternal life and the second death.

Now regarding your scenario. I don't know how you are going to take my answer since you do not believe. The only way I can answer you is with scriptures in hopes to comfort you. Now for starters you will never see anyone or anyones child burning in hell being tormented if you happened to be bless with the opportunity of entering the new kingdom. Hell isn't some form of entertainment for people in heaven. No where in the bible does it say you will be subjected to watch people being tormented. As a matter of fact it states in

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:for the former things are passed away

The fact that you're considering joining someone in hell thinking you will be abe to comfort them like its some family get-together worries me. Maybe some else in here like a forum veteran can shed some light on this matter.

I'm both Catholic and agnostic, struggling with the realization that I don't truly believe in God despite decades of trying. My kids are still young .
While I don't suspect hell is visible from heaven, if such places exist , in heaven one would notice the absence of their loved ones. You'd have to conclude they all didn't make it. I don't understand then how one could truly be happy if they knew their lover ones were suffering

 

[Julie.S]

I see a huge divide between what the public school systems are teaching the kids and what they learn at church or at home. Evolution is probably the biggest dichotomy that youths face as science in schools rarely agrees with the truths of the Bible. Seeing how the kids are in these learning environments longer than any other form of supervised education, it shouldn't be a real surprise that the kids fall away from believing the "stories" they were taught as kids. "Real" science happens in academia, so they think because this is all they know. I had a 10 year old neighbour come up to me and challenge me that man came from apes and not God because her teacher said so and why would the teacher lie, etc... so sad to see the innocence ripped away fro these young ones as they are indoctrinated into satans kingdom. Add in unsupervised social media use and too little parental concern or control and you get what we got...

I was raised Christian and taught about evolution at school and at home.

 

[JaeMelo]

I'm both Catholic and agnostic, struggling with the realization that I don't truly believe in God despite decades of trying. My kids are still young .
While I don't suspect hell is visible from heaven, if such places exist , in heaven one would notice the absence of their loved ones. You'd have to conclude they all didn't make it. I don't understand then how one could truly be happy if they knew their lover ones were suffering

You know I wish you would've said this earlier.. You aren't lost just yet and neither are your kids condemned. If you'd message me in private id be happy to point you in the correct direction. I think your own questioning of faith and display of disbelief has partial something to do with your catholic upbringing however do not quote me on this. I was a Jehovah Witness when being brought up and the level of belief I had than was probably comparable to what you're experiencing right now. I didn't start to truly believe until I stripped myself away from my shody denomination and their man made teachings and instead started to actually read the Bible for what it is. It is really an amazing thing to actually believe. Its as if something in you clicks and all pieces of a puzzle start to fall together. Scriptures may be a little difficult to jump into especially when using a KJV bible but I have a few Youtube links that I have a feeling you may like... It may just do the trick for you.

Can you show me this?

I wish I could find my post where I spoke about this but I can't seem to find it... Im in a rush to get out the door so check out this link in the mean time!

 

[Julie.S]

You know I wish you would've said this earlier.. You aren't lost just yet and neither are your kids condemned. If you'd message me in private id be happy to point you in the correct direction. I think it your questioning of faith and display of disbelief has something to do with your catholic upbringing however do not quote me on this. I was a Jehovah Witness when being brought up and the level of belief I had than was probably comparable to what you're experiencing right now. I didn't start to truly believe until I stripped myself away from my shody denomination and their man made teachings and instead started to actually read the Bible for what it is. Its really an amazing thing. Its as if something in you clicks and pieces of a puzzle start to fall together. Scriptures may be a little difficult to jump into especially when using a KJV bible but I have a few Youtube links that I have a feeling you may like... It may just do the trick for you.



I wish I could find my post where I spoke about this but I can't seem to find it... Im in a rush to get out the door so check out this link in the mean time!

Hey it's alright take your time. Thanks for the link.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Reading the Scriptures and prayer. If these activities are not seen as important in the lives of those from whom younger people take their example, then either they will have to figure it out afresh or they won't figure it out at all.

 

[Julie.S]

Reading the Scriptures and prayer. If these activities are not seen as important in the lives of those from whom younger people take their example, then either they will have to figure it out afresh or they won't figure it out at all.

Make those things easy to read then I will but until then I know what I know. When reading is not easy for you it changes your life.