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Can anyone help me out???

Discussion in 'Daily Devotionals' started by jimmyboy11, Apr 4, 2002.

  1. jimmyboy11

    jimmyboy11 New Member

    70
    +0
    last night I was trying to find the story of Satan when he was throne out of heaven.
    couldn't find it
    I looked in a bunch of books and concordances, but still no luck
    where do we get this?anyone know?
    ther is a passage in Isaiah, but its real vage, and not much of a story
    post if you can help.

    God Bless
     
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  2. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    It's in the New Testament, after the return of the 70 missionaries. Luke 10:17-18.

    "The Seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name." He said to them, "I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash."
     
  3. jimmyboy11

    jimmyboy11 New Member

    70
    +0
    yeah I saw that too,
    but what about the whole story
    you know how satan was throne out of heaven because he wanted to be like God.
    and how he took all these fallen angels to earth with him.
    he was the throne keeper.

    where is that--the bulk of the story?
     
  4. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

    +1,739
    Atheist
    It doesn't exist. The church father's attribute Isaiah 14 as a picture of Satan's fall. A worthwhile observation is that the Jews have no such tradition.

    You may be thinking of Milton's Paradise Lost.

    Tinker
     
  5. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    oh that one! It's actually more than one verse that tells the whole story:

    How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. Isaiah 14:12-15

    And Revelation 12:9

    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
     
  6. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    They are both in the future tense, something that is going to happen, sometime in the future.
     
  7. jimmyboy11

    jimmyboy11 New Member

    70
    +0
    if this is true i dont' understand why its taught
    i'll try to undrstand it
    where is the evidence?

    did you mean their is no Jewish tradition for it?
     
  8. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    The Jews don't believe that it happened in the past, but it is something either figurative or something that will happen someday. But as for now, demons are still given full access to heaven.

    These verses would coaborate that concept.

    The demons are still permitted access to heaven, at some level, which explains why satan was able to be with the sons of God in Job chapter 1.
     
  9. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

    +1,739
    Atheist
    An orthodox Jewish man who corresponds with some of your fellow posters on another message board answered my questions regarding Lucifer.

    According to him, the Jews' teaching on Isaiah 14 is that it refers to Nebechednezzar (or however it is spelled.) In Jewish Tradition, The Satan (as opposed to a satan -- The accuser vs. an accuser) has the proper name Samael.

    You should also note that only KJV and its derivatives (e.g., Darby) render the translation as "Lucifer". Even in KJV, the word only appears once in the entire Bible. (The vulgate had a reference in 2 Peter to "Lucifer".)

    This website, http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm says this
    The bit about Origen (note the bolding I added above) is probably what I was thinking about with respect to church father's.

    It is taught because it is tradition. Nothing wrong with that necessarily. But we ought to be aware of it.

    Tinker
     
  10. Redeemed1

    Redeemed1 Passionate Worshiper

    711
    +1
    Ezekiel 28:12-19 is believed by many to be speaking metaphorically about Satan (Lucifer) and his fall, being cast out, and final destruction.
     
  11. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    28:12
    "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    28:13
    You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
    28:14
    "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
    28:15
    You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
    28:16
    "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones.
    28:17
    "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.
    28:18
    "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you.
    28:19
    All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." ' "
     
  12. Redeemed1

    Redeemed1 Passionate Worshiper

    711
    +1
    Thanks Lambslove. I should have typed it out.
     
  13. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    no problem. I jut thought as long as I was looking it up, I'd copy and paste it here!
     
  14. jimmyboy11

    jimmyboy11 New Member

    70
    +0
  15. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    "How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

    13 For you said to yourself, 'I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north.

    14 I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.' 15 But instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths.

    16 Everyone there will stare at you and ask, 'Can this be the one who shook the earth and the kingdoms of the world?

    17 Is this the one who destroyed the world and made it into a wilderness? Is this the king who demolished the world's greatest cities and had no mercy on his prisoners?'

    Isaiah 14:12-17, too!
     
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