Can an old earth be proven?

[Open Heart]

But why did you say the planes penetrated layers of Ice?
And, on this particular glacier they landed there was not a lot of snow to penetrate.
it was Ice layers after 42 years of snow.
The planes were damaged considerably due to Ice accretion.
Furthermore, Why dont you hear about the Scientists discarding the first 75 meters of Ice in their cores?
They count all the layers of Ice, from the day they collected it.
Naaaa, I am totally convinced that there are too many errors of interpretation in such science.

Are you going to answer my question?

 

[Piet Strydom]

Please forgive me for my ignorance,
I missed your question.
I dont know where you posted it.
Please post again.

Are you going to answer my question?

 

[Colter]

So, You say when Jesus mentioned the flood, (Matthew 24:38-39),(Luke 17:27), he was in a child like mind of a bronze age sheep header?
Which Jesus do you believe in Colter.
Mine is the one who said that all the prophets of old spoke about him and He knew Abraham.
it seems as if you are perhaps a sheep in wolf's clothing?
I have never met a Christian that does not believe in the Bible.
Please clarify your standpoint.
Do you accept Jesus as God the Creator who revealed Himself as the Word of God, who came to earth and took a human body Who gave His Human life for your salvation?

* I don't believe that Jesus ever mentioned the flood and he certainly didn't believe in such a ridiculous story! Jesus knew the scriptures were imperfect, man made and contained error. Jesus didn't come to reform Judaism, the way and the God he reveled in his life was superior to the evolved religion of Judaism. He let the old and inferior die on the vine. . Jesus was at times misremembered by his Jewish converts in the decades after he left when the gospels were written.

* It's human speculation and ignorance to claim----->"The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth," The Lord does not currently, nor has he ever, nor will he ever into all eternity regret anything he is currently doing, has done in the past or will ever do throughout eternity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's one obvious way the we can tell that the flood story is a human fabrication or perhaps exaggeration of a much, much smaller, regional flood legend.

* Yes, "I accept Jesus as God the Creator who revealed Himself as the Word of God, who came to earth and took a human body Who gave His Human life for your salvation?"

God is the Living Word, the commonly accepted cannon list is the "written word". I have faith in the God whose doings inspired the "faith" of those who wrote the flawed, racially biased Bible books.

* They put the new wine into the old wineskins. They sew the new cloth onto the old!

 

[Colter]

But why did you say the planes penetrated layers of Ice?
And, on this particular glacier they landed there was not a lot of snow to penetrate.
it was Ice layers after 42 years of snow.
The planes were damaged considerably due to Ice accretion.
Furthermore, Why dont you hear about the Scientists discarding the first 75 meters of Ice in their cores?
They count all the layers of Ice, from the day they collected it.
Naaaa, I am totally convinced that there are too many errors of interpretation in such science.

The strata reveals the remains of evolved life from the earliest most primitive to the current. It does not correspond with the singular, young earth creation event story created by the Hebrew priest class.

 

[Job 33:6]

I see you propose ideas like..."what if they were all impacted by some supernatural event" or "what if this happened, or that". You have proposed ideas, but to justify something like...a supernatural event that alters rates of decay, you have to actually need reason to propose the idea. Evidence for such a thing.

I could propose the idea that, dragons lived in the times of Job, but without evidence, its just a proposal. And I could say, well, nobody has evidence because there was only 1 dragon. But this isnt really an argument for dragons, its just free speech.

 

[Job 33:6]

The broader you make the discussion the more impossible it becomes to prove your assumptions. It simply widens the scope of might bes and what ifs.

Recognizing that rates of continental drift, synchronize with radioactive decay just allows for another means of confirming dates. Unless we propose that continents moved around the planet superfast, but then we end up proposing more supernatural events that we do not have evidence for.

So, i just looked at creation ministries, their website that has been quoted by another person in this chat.

And they propose that the continents split in 150 days of the flood. Now, the continents, north america and africa for example, rest roughly 1500-2000 miles away from the mid oceanic ridge. Which mathematically equates to a rate of motion, that is roughly 10 miles a day. Which is close to a half mile, or 2500 feet per hour.

So, to propose that continents moved at 2500 feet per hour, is really just, ridiculous. Just thinking about the physics involved behind entire rock running into rock at that speed. You wouldnt have regular fracturing during such high energy collisions. Its all just more talk without evidence.

Imagine india floating into china at half a foot per second or faster.

Something like the himilayas just wouldnt exist, it kinematically just doesnt make sense.

But really it would take less than 150 days for the continents to part because actually we would need time to deposit layers individually and time for those layers to individually fracture themselves.

Then you have issues trying to explain how the rock hardened super fast, because soft sediment isnt going to fracture or form listric faults or suffer from cataclastic metamorphism or anything of that nature while its still soft.

It all just doesnt make sense.

 

[Job 33:6]

True indeed,
Keep in mind that the Bible never says that the Earth is only 6 to 8000 years old.
This is an assumption made by Creationists.
The genesis description says that the Earth and heavens were made before Time itself existed.
Anyone that say otherwise is incorrect.
now, I do not have any problem with radio decay tests, but I have a problem with the discrepancies in using say 3 tests on the same rock and having a few hundred million years difference.

But, again, it does not concern me in the least to know that the Earth might be 4 billion years old.
the only question I have on these tests is why they do not correspond. (as I say it is not crucial anyhow)

My claim is that the Bible binds itself with the genealogies from Adam to Jesus, and this ads up to 6 000 years.
The only test that can be devised on organisms to determine the age they lived, is C14.
Now, C14 actually proves that life is not older than 6 000 years.
What other tests do we have?

I only know of C14 / C12 ratio.

I think that, if you have multiple research papers proposing conflicting dates, you should post them here so we can examine the situation.

 

[Job 33:6]

However,

Furthermore the age of Zircon in the rock might produce 4 billion years when a fossil next to it will have C14.

Go ahead and source it. And lets see how true it is.

 

[Piet Strydom]

The strata reveals the remains of evolved life from the earliest most primitive to the current.

Strata that exists no where on earth.

 

[Piet Strydom]

I don't believe that Jesus ever mentioned the flood and he certainly didn't believe in such a ridiculous story!

Uhhhhh?
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matthew 24:38-39).

 

[Piet Strydom]

Jesus knew the scriptures were imperfect, man made and contained error.

realy?

And he answered and said, "Have you not read, that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'" (Matthew 19:4-5).

From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation (Luke 11:51).

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be (Matthew 24:37-39).

But he [Jesus] answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The people of Nineveh shall stand up against this generation at the judgment, and shall condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here" (Matthew 12:39-41).

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand) (Matthew 24:15).

The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor" (Luke 4:17-19).

And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing" (Luke 4:21).

And he [Jesus] said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? "But I say to you, that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him" (Mark 9:12,13).

Because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled (Luke 21:22).

Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city (Matthew 10:15).

And I can Quote hundreds of Jesus' quotes from the Old Testament proving that He regarded the Bible as Authoritative!
No Colter,
You need to go and read the Bible before you make such statements sir.
Jesus read from the Old Testament to the Congregations wherever he went!
greetings

 

[Piet Strydom]

I think that, if you have multiple research papers proposing conflicting dates, you should post them here so we can examine the situation.

I will do that tomorrow.
Great suggestion.
As soon as I am home I will get the notes and links.
Greetings

 

[Job 33:6]

I will do that tomorrow.
Great suggestion.
As soon as I am home I will get the notes and links.
Greetings

Please use published research, not some random creation news articles.

Thanks,

 

[Piet Strydom]

It's human speculation and ignorance to claim----->"The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth," The Lord does not currently, nor has he ever, nor will he ever into all eternity regret anything he is currently doing, has done in the past or will ever do throughout eternity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, you forget something.
The fall of the glorious Human Created by God.
What Adam and Eve were before they sinned, was a creation without a sinless body covered with light that was also immortal.
They did not know they were naked and were made in the image of God, who Himself are covered in light.
They were also immortal for God told them that if they ate from the tree, they will certainly die. therefore, before they ate the fruit, they were immortal.
Interesting, in this state they would not grow sick, get cancer, age etc.
Finaly, they were not inclined to sin but had free will to choose to do wrong.

And this was what Satan achieved when he deceived Adam and Eve.
They lost their immortality and started to age.
This is what inherited sin means.
We are dying, we have billions of dead cells in our bodies, we can not appear in front of God in this state, for no sin can live in front of Him.
God is Life, and Death is the absence of Life.
this was why the Word of God came as a human to be born as one, to live as one and to die like us.
That is what the Gospel means, God removed death to be useless for we will receive a new body such as Jesus has, one that Adam and Eve originally had.

Therefore, do not take God's words out of context, for when he said those words, it was due to the utter sinfulness of people on earth.
And He regretted that he made man, for they were all corrupt, except for Noah.

And always keep in mind that God did not create you to be a sinner and a rotting carcass, this is what humankind did to itself!
But God loved you so much, that He decided to become one of us too, so we can live forever with Him.
Greetings in the Name of God almighty...
YHWH

 

[Job 33:6]

Strata that exists no where on earth.

It exists everywhere on earth, what do you mean here?

 

[Piet Strydom]

Please use published research, not some random creation news articles.

I assume you will use laboratory reports from RATE?
remember, these are the only Christian scientists that had the opportunity to test the claims from radio isotope tests.
Foe if you want me to quote peer reviewed scientific publications, Christians have a problem.
They are never allowed to be published under any University due to the fact that most of the peers are atheist, or will not be allowed to publish any such documents in fear of losing their positions.
Watch the documentary, Expelled, to see the true state of affairs when a scientist dares to claim creation.
They get fired and blacklisted.
many court cases attest to this fact.
I will place RATE's publications, for these men are PHD's and not afraid to voice their opinion.

 

[Piet Strydom]

It exists everywhere on earth, what do you mean here?

A simple claim that the geological column has fossils in layers proving that life existed in strata laid down hundreds of millions of years ago.
it just does not exist.
and to play reductionist with Occam's razor, the evidence is very scarce and inconclusive.
However, I do not want to go into the geological Column now.
I will rather produce RATE sampling tests.

 

[Job 33:6]

I assume you will use laboratory reports from RATE?
remember, these are the only Christian scientists that had the opportunity to test the claims from radio isotope tests.
Foe if you want me to quote peer reviewed scientific publications, Christians have a problem.
They are never allowed to be published under any University due to the fact that most of the peers are atheist, or will not be allowed to publish any such documents in fear of losing their positions.
Watch the documentary, Expelled, to see the true state of affairs when a scientist dares to claim creation.
They get fired and blacklisted.
many court cases attest to this fact.
I will place RATE's publications, for these men are PHD's and not afraid to voice their opinion.

Well im a christian scientist, and im published. So, i dont think i can accept this line of reasoning.

The problem is, there are a lot of holes in the research these guys are putting out there. Typically though, non scientists wouldnt see those holes, and assume theyre just a product of an atheist conspiracy.

For example...

I just quoted an article from creation ministries, a source you cited above, and they propose that continents, africa and north america in particular, drifted apart at about half a foot per second, or more, during a global flood.

Now, regular people might not see anything wrong with this. However, on scientific grounds, the idea of the himilayas being formed under such conditions, kinematically doesnt make any sense. I posted the picture below for reference. How could these layers be deposited, and harden, and move at half a foot per second into one another, and still form regular compressional faults? It doesnt make any sense. But the article doesnt talk about any of that.

These sources have holes that are left out of their discussion. That people do not talk about. But regular every day scientists are aware of the holes, even if we dont bother to go out of our way to talk about them to the general public.

 

[Job 33:6]

Here is another chart to help describe my last post.

So, above are some of the rocks we find here on earth that are metamorphosed. To move the continents into one another, at a half foot per second, would create so much pressure, it wouldnt form regular every day rocks. It wouldnt form regular every day faults. Alternatively, the frictional force would create such high pressures and temperatures, that the planet itself would just be, like a broiling ball of magma, which again, you wouldnt find interbedded siltstones and shales in the middle of the himilayas, but this is what the himilayas are made of (chakrata formation), regular every day rocks, formed under regular every day pressures and temperatures.

But nobody talks about this in the creation articles.

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter11.pdf

The article even goes as far as to say that slow rates are the ones that cannot physically form the himilayas, but they dont talk about why they think that is. They dont talk about the himilayas consisting of regular every day rocks and fractures. Nor do they talk about how the siltstones and shales werent metamorphosed when the continents were moving into one another at half a foot per second.

Because they cant, because it doesnt make any sense.

Heres another thing, if greenschist forms at 400 degrees celcius, when exactly was it during the flood that, the mountains of virginia (which are in part made of greenschist) were 400 degrees celcius? If you really think about how ridiculous this sounds, it just doesnt make any sense.

 

[Colter]

realy?











And I can Quote hundreds of Jesus' quotes from the Old Testament proving that He regarded the Bible as Authoritative!
No Colter,
You need to go and read the Bible before you make such statements sir.
Jesus read from the Old Testament to the Congregations wherever he went!
greetings

Jesus chose from what was “true” in the scripture.

I quote scripture to, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s all true.