Can an apostate become a tribulation saint?

[Matthew47]

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you, can an apostate become a tribulation saint? I don't know if apostasy is that unpardonable sin, but what if you have rejected Christ during church dispensation of grace and you are left behind after the rapture, can you become a martyr and win heaven?

 

[Tolworth John]

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you, can an apostate become a tribulation saint? I don't know if apostasy is that unpardonable sin, but what if you reject Christ during church dispensation of grace and you are left behind after the rapture, can you become a martyr and win heaven?

The Bible emphasize that " Now " is the day of salvation. The putting off of getting right with God only makes sin even more of a habit.

Once Jesus comes again, like death it will be too late.

 

[Rescued One]

We don't win heaven by our own efforts. Eternal life is a gift.

 

[Matthew47]

The Bible emphasize that " Now " is the day of salvation. The putting off of getting right with God only makes sin even more of a habit.

Once Jesus comes again, like death it will be too late.

But what if you became an apostate during the church age. What about Hebrews 6:4 Hebrews 10:26 then person can no longer restored to repentance, because of rejection of Christ, becoming an atheist. Can God forgive me if I became an apostate?

 

[Senior Pastor]

But what if you became an apostate during the church age. What about Hebrews 6:4 Hebrews 10:26 then person can no longer restored to repentance, because of rejection of Christ, becoming an atheist. Can God forgive me if I became an apostate?

This scripture Hebrews is one of the MOST difficult and frightening passages in the entire bible for interpretation or exegesis, so much so that it is a battleground scripture. I too have struggled with this scripture and I can give you my sincere feedback on it.

I sincerely believe Hebrews is talking about a 100% saved Christian. Most but not all commentaries will agree to at least that part of it. Where commentaries start to vary is on the outcome or final fate of this Christian.

I feel that the Christian spoken about in these passages "refuses, can't, won't, lost the ability to, seared conscience," to REPENT. Although the LORD will welcome this lost sheep back into the fold if they repent. This Christian simply never will.

This is the best I can offer with this EXTREMELY difficult passage. I would like to share the BEST exegesis I have found on this matter from the Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary - Hebrew, James.

May the Lord bless each and every one of us here as we attempt to talk about this extremely difficult passage and may all of us please stay humble, respectful, and sincere with one another as we discuss this very sensitive yet important topic.

PLEASE refer to the .pdf attachment.
[For Educational Purposes only]
Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary - Hebrew, James. Attached as .pdf

 

[Richard T]

Here are what one commentary says on this scripture.
Critical and Exegetical Notes
Ver. 26. Sin wilfully.—Such sins contrast with sins of ignorance, frailty, and error. Involving the will, they put men outside the influence of remedial or recovering agencies. No more sacrifice for sins.—Lit. “no sacrifice for sins is any longer left to them.” They wilfully reject that, and there is no other for them. It is distinctly assumed that the man keeps in this wilful mind. If he comes to a better mind, he comes within the range of the sacrifice that has been provided. “The writer does not say that they have exhausted the infinite mercy of God, nor can we justly assert that he held such a conclusion; he only says that they have, so long as they continue in such a state, put themselves out of God’s covenant, and that there are no other covenanted means of grace.”
Preacher's Complete Homiletical Commentary on the New Testament.

Hopefully you have come to a better mind, quit fretting and get right with God. Your chances after the rapture are slim, some even teach it is none. With the church gone, the delusions will be great, the pressure immense and it will make all your decisions so much tougher. No condemnation, you can be like the prodigal son.

 

[DebbieJ]

Hello everyone,
I have a question for you, can an apostate become a tribulation saint? I don't know if apostasy is that unpardonable sin, but what if you reject Christ during church dispensation of grace and you are left behind after the rapture, can you become a martyr and win heaven?

If you left the faith and became an atheist and change your mind again, I don't think that's considered apostasy. Even if you did this 70x77 times. Apostasy is total abandonment of the Christian faith for good. Your heart has already darkened.

However, during the time of tribulation, you didn't take the mark of the beast. Why? Because you listened to the warnings of your former Christian brothers and sisters. You believe their message, thus, you believe in Christ. Although, you still think you're an apostate, it's only half-hearted because you fear the Lord more. When his kingdom comes on earth, you'll be welcomed with open arms and will be forgiven.

The condition is really simple. You take the mark, that's the end of you. If you changed your mind, that's still the end of you, for the mark has sealed you forever.

The rule is the same for other faiths. Although, you're a Buddhist but you fear to take the mark, you'll be welcomed to the kingdom. For your blindness will be healed and you'll be able to see the truth. These other faiths are called "The multitude in white robes" in Revelation. They are the non-Christians who didn't take the mark.

If you're a Christian and you've been so faithful, but, crumbled in fear and took the mark, that's considered the most treacherous thing one can ever imagine. You're a coward. And a lot of "so called" Christians will succumb and then the falling away starts as they worship the beast and his image.

But, for the pretib believers, you don't have to worry about this. All you have to do sit and wait for your rapture, while the non-pretib believers will just pick up all the clothes left behind.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Consider the thief on the cross. A lawless one who showed compassion and faith in his last moments on earth.

 

[Tolworth John]

But what if you became an apostate during the church age. What about Hebrews 6:4 Hebrews 10:26 then person can no longer restored to repentance, because of rejection of Christ, becoming an atheist. Can God forgive me if I became an apostate?

A better way of looking at it is what if you continue you to serve God .

Playing with the idea of temporarily rejecting God for the pleasure of a moment, risks deciding that those pleasures are more important than the future benefit of serving God.

 

[Dave L]

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you, can an apostate become a tribulation saint? I don't know if apostasy is that unpardonable sin, but what if you reject Christ during church dispensation of grace and you are left behind after the rapture, can you become a martyr and win heaven?

I had been indoctrinated by the rapture threat as a kid. So I always planned to live doing my own thing until I saw people being raptured. And then mend my ways a get beheaded so I could go to heaven. It was a gamble I felt was worth it. But later found out it's a bunch of malarkey I almost cheated my self out of life over. And today I know the truth that set me free from it.

 

[Guojing]

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you, can an apostate become a tribulation saint? I don't know if apostasy is that unpardonable sin, but what if you reject Christ during church dispensation of grace and you are left behind after the rapture, can you become a martyr and win heaven?

Its much harder to be saved during the Tribulation.

For all 7 years, you have to reject the mark of the beast. That means you won't be able to buy and sell, and you might be martyred for your faith

 

[Goodhuman]

We don't win heaven by our own efforts. Eternal life is a gift.

Common error among today's church is thinking Jesus come to save us, instead of the truth: Jesus come to show us the way if we walk this way to save ourselves.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

In the past christians were not thinking so, they hurry up to become martyrs, so they can be saved.

 

[Senior Pastor]

Common error among today's church is thinking Jesus come to save us, instead of the truth: Jesus come to show us the way if we walk this way to save ourselves.
John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
In the past christians were not thinking so, they hurry up to become martyrs, so they can be saved.

We can't "save ourselves." We can do nothing without the Lord Jesus Christ. We must all come to the cross.
John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jesus came to be the light and the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. That through his precious blood our sins would be covered for all those whom have TRUE FAITH and believe in him.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

After salvation, we are His disciples who should obey and follow him and produce fruit. TRUE LIFE-SAVING FAITH produces fruit it is not barren. Faith alone saves but faith that saves is not alone!
John 14:15 (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
James 1:22 (KJV)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[sweetycakes1]

We can't "save ourselves." We can do nothing without the Lord Jesus Christ. We must all come to the cross.
John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jesus came to be the light and the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. That through his precious blood our sins would be covered for all those whom have TRUE FAITH and believe in him.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

After salvation, we are His disciples who should obey and follow him and produce fruit. TRUE LIFE-SAVING FAITH produces fruit it is not barren. Faith alone saves but faith that saves is not alone!
John 14:15 (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
James 1:22 (KJV)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Well said!

 

[Broken Fence]

Common error among today's church is thinking Jesus come to save us, instead of the truth: Jesus come to show us the way if we walk this way to save ourselves.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

In the past christians were not thinking so, they hurry up to become martyrs, so they can be saved.

He came to save us. To think otherwise is error. God is no fool, He knows who strives for perfection and who uses grace as a cloak for sin. God knows you, tell Him your worries. He will correct your path. He promised He would. Trust Him.

 

[NBB]

The prodigal son was A SON, and he threw everything away with prostitutes and loose living, i think this can apply to a christian who got for a time away from God somehow.

 

[JulieB67]

Well, I don't believe in a pretribrapture, I believe all will be here during the tribulation. But if you're waiting till then,

Revelation 13:8 tells us,
8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

 

[JulieB67]

What about Hebrews 6:4 Hebrews 10:26 then person can no longer restored to repentance, because of rejection of Christ, becoming an atheist. Can God forgive me if I became an apostate?

Sorry for the double post but did want to say God can forgive you now.

People have struggled mightly over these verses (myself included)

Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment
Hebrews 6:3 "And this will we do, if God permit."

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"

Were talking a mature Christian here, that's what perfection means as a Christian (no ones perfect) but we must try and sanctify ourselves over the course of our lifetime. No one is perfect and never will be but we can mature.

Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame." It's like crucifying him all over again.

Basically the teaching here is that we need to lay aside the doctrines of Christ (salvation), not laying down again the foundation (that we need to be saved again) and other doctrines of baptism, eternal judgement, etc. He's teaching that if a group already has those foundations that need to move past them and mature as a Christian, getting deeper into the meat. The milk are those doctrines, if we keep talking about them, you never get deeper into the Word. That's why I don't go to a church. I feel like I get more meat studying on my own. Plus, there are so many false doctrines out there, etc. Not all churches are like that, but usually you get one or two verses surrounded by a sermon of some sorts that has nothing to do with the meat of God's word.

And it's impossible to renew someone because after a person has been saved, the salvation is always there. If they fall away, they need to come back, confess and repent. But to keep getting saved over and over puts Christ's to an open shame.

not laying again the foundation of repentance. As Christians we don't need to be taught this again.

As for Hebrews 10:26. This is someone who after has been given the truth doesn't care. There remains no other sacrifice for sin because Christ is IT.

There are many verses where our loving Father wants us to return to him with a truly repentant heart. I'll just post one. Much prayers to you, take care.

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

 

[Senior Pastor]

And it's impossible to renew someone because after a person has been saved, the salvation is always there. If they fall away, they need to come back, confess and repent. But to keep getting saved over and over puts Christ's to an open shame.

not laying again the foundation of repentance. As Christians we don't need to be taught this again.

As for Hebrews 10:26. This is someone who after has been given the truth doesn't care. There remains no other sacrifice for sin because Christ is IT.

There are many verses where our loving Father wants us to return to him with a truly repentant heart. I'll just post one. Much prayers to you, take care.

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

I respect your point of view, but this is similar to the hypothetical case below. It would mean that the writer would-be warning us about something that could never happen and that is not very likely what he is doing. He was more than likely giving the warning so that these weak Christians press on towards maturity because it is DANGEROUS not to. Dangerous how? Dangerous because a babe or teenager in Christ that is not pressing on towards full maturity is more at risk of falling away than a mature Christian well established in the faith.

I believe Hebrews are giving us true warnings that all should pay close attention to and not dismiss or downplay the severity of them.

Can a Christian fall away? From Hebrews, it appears that this risk is there. Can fallen-away Christians be restored? If they come back before they reach a state where their heart is so hardened they will NEVER repent and come back.

"A hypothetical case. There are those who say that falling away from Christ is only a wrong idea that exists in the minds of some people. Therefore, the writer is only trying to correct the wrong idea that these people have. These people are causing themselves an undue amount of anxiety, tension, and worry by believing false ideas; therefore, they must be corrected and saved from their false belief. Most of these interpreters hold that falling away from Christ is impossible, but if the belief is held by some, then it needs to be corrected. Therefore, this is exactly what the author is doing. Note how he goes about correcting the false idea in this interpretation: "All right, you say a person can fall away from Christ. What happens if he does? If would be impossible to renew him again, for Christ would have to be crucified again. And this is utterly impossible; Christ can never be crucified again. Therefore, falling away is impossible. To say that a saved person can fall away is an incorrect idea that is not taught by Scripture."


Hebrews 6:4 Hebrews 10:26 is serious stuff and should not be taken lightly.

 

[JulieB67]

If they come back before they reach a state where their heart is so hardened they will NEVER repent and come back.

I do agree with this.