Can a women be a 'pastor'?

[chaundel]

Well first off, I did not know posts could be edited, I don't use this app much, secondly, those could merely be rounded off figures, and then later corrected. Gods directions to US are not mistakes, just because we don't fully understand what it means does not make it void. Also you giving me that scripture, we have gotten off topic, almost like proving me wrong about anything to prove that I can be wrong about everything. But if that's not the case then forgive me

 

[Breetai]

He knew what He was doin when He allowed that to be put in there, His word is PERFECT, there are no flaws, amen?

Here is an error in the Bible. How do you rectify this (in addition to my previous questions)?

2 Samuel 8:4
-And David captured from him 1,700 horsemen and 20,000 foot soldiers; and David hamstrung the chariot horses, but reserved enough of them for 100 chariots.

1 Chronicles 18:4
-And David took from him 1,000 chariots and 7,000 horsemen and 20,000 foot soldiers, and David hamstrung all the chariot horses, but reserved enough of them for 100 chariots."



Also, please stop with the multiple posts! If you need to add something, edit your latest post! This is considered spamming and is against forum rules. Also please try to avoid run-on sentences. Your posts are difficult to read.

 

[albrecht]

You do realize you just said we don't have to obey the word of God if we feel we have a better way?

The Word of God is in Scripture, but it is not identical to Scripture. It must be interpreted through the light of reasoning, experience, and tradition. It contains all things necessary to salvation; it is not a textbook for absolute knowledge of everything. I am not a believer in "sola scriptura."

And the reason it's used to justify slavery is because of the misunderstanding of God, are we to disobey God and make void His word because man has twisted it??

You're avoiding the question. Some might say you're doing the same thing.

We should earnestly seek the truth, this world has changed but God said I change not, peoples ways have changed but Gods doesn't change unless stated in His word.

And as people change, so does their relationship to God and others also change. Christianity is always culturally and historically situated, even if God's character itself does not change.

And forgive but your looking at my words without discernment of the Holy Ghost,

What a condescending ad hominem. So you're saying the problem isn't that your arguments are crummy, but that I don't agree with you because I don't have the "discernment of the Holy Ghost"? Seriously?

for instance the jewelry part, if it is saying to do that, I don't believe many would accept it, because it's not about what God wants, it's about the way they want things to be,

That's not an answer.

But like I said in the beginning, give me one scripture to back up that a woman can be a pastor, I know women can preach because preaching is spreading a message, or telling something but the bible clearly says a woman should not teach,

I already gave you "one scripture." We are all one in Christ.

idk about you, but I wont disobey God, we cannot disobey His word whenever it was written, what part of the bible does it say' you may ignore my word depending on when it was written or if it's convenient to you'.

It's not a matter of convenience, but a matter of right and wrong. You're defending a corrupt ideology. Patriarchy was immoral then, and it is immoral now. The Bible also doesn't say we should throw our brains and ethics out the window and worship a text.

The bible says in 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

I already responded to this, and you ignored it. Come to think of it, you haven't provided one direct, cogent response to anything.

 

[chaundel]

Inbox me for a link if you would like to read up on it, I can't post links without a certain number of posts

 

[albrecht]

Inbox me for a link if you would like to read up on it, I can't post links without a certain number of posts

Can you paraphrase it?

 

[Breetai]

...I am not a believer in "sola scriptura."...

But, you're Anglican!

Good ol' Wikipedia:

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, sola scriptura demands only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from scripture. However, sola scriptura is not a denial of other authorities governing Christian life and devotion. Rather, it simply demands that all other authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God.

You said:

The Word of God is in Scripture, but it is not identical to Scripture. It must be interpreted through the light of reasoning, experience, and tradition. It contains all things necessary to salvation; it is not a textbook for absolute knowledge of everything. I am not a believer in "sola scriptura."

I fail to see how you are not adhiring to the idea of sola scriptura. What you said seems to fit it to me.

Chaundel, you can post a link in this thread. Just put a space where the periods in the URL would go. We'd have to copy, paste and add in the periods ourselves, but you would still be providing your source.

Understanding of scripture does not come magically from the Holy Spirit. For those who have understanding, the Holy Spirit gives us the abilities and knowledge to work with God's Word to study and understand it in light of study, reason, experience and tradition (ie. looking at the historical context in which the books, letters and poems of the Bible were written).

 

[albrecht]

But, you're Anglican!

Good ol' Wikipedia:



You said:


I fail to see how you are not adhiring to the idea of sola scriptura. What you said seems to fit it to me.

Hmm, you're right. I'm probably somewhere between sola scriptura (from the definition you gave) and prima scriptura ala the Wesleyan Quadrilateral (though Wesley was Anglican himself). I guess you might say that I believe that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness but also that the understanding of what this fully means is best interpreted through church tradition, reason, and personal experience.

 

[Breetai]

...those could merely be rounded off figures, and then later corrected.

1700 and 7000 do represent an error. You are right, I did do that to show you that you can be wrong about something in the Bible. Guess what? Nobody has it all right. Some Christians claim that the Holy Spirit leads them to a correct understanding, but forget that our human nature does lead us to error. Always allow for that, so that you can learn from others. You are not always going to be right on things.

Gods directions to US are not mistakes, just because we don't fully understand what it means does not make it void.

I agree.

Also you giving me that scripture, we have gotten off topic, almost like proving me wrong about anything to prove that I can be wrong about everything. But if that's not the case then forgive me

This was the case. I hope you can understand why I did that. Most people would be to proud to.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Just wondering; if women are supposed to hold no authority over men, etc. then should we not have female politicians, teachers, or lecturers in universities? Not trying to start a debate; I'm just genuinely interested about thoughts on this topic.

 

[Breetai]

Just wondering; if women are supposed to hold no authority over men, etc. then should we not have female politicians, teachers, or lecturers in universities? Not trying to start a debate; I'm just genuinely interested about thoughts on this topic.

You'd be taking it out of context if you said that woman should not be teachers, lecturers, etc.

It is talking about certain offices of authority within the church, as well as relationships in family, etc. The Bible is basically saying that men and woman are not the same; they have different roles to play in different aspects of life. Of course some disagree, but this is how it has been commonly looked at over time.

 

[SaraJarvis]

So, when The Bible states "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet", then that is referring only to within the church and family? Is that actually stated, or just inferred? If a woman is to hold no authority over a man (in general, as I can't see it written only regarding the church), then how would you feel about being taught by a woman with more academic experience than you, and with the ability to exercise her power over you (you abiding by her rules in the lecture room, etc.)? As it was not in the home or in the church, would you not mind at all that she was intellectually besting you, and telling you how to do something?

Not that I'm fighting for women to no longer be teachers, or anything (far from it!); I'd just like a clear view of this topic.

 

[DeepSouth]

I think the main issue at hand is the place of a woman over a man. One side uses the fact that man was given authority over the woman, and actually says that a woman is not to be in leadership over a man. The other side uses contextual arguments and examples of women in the Bible to make the point it is okay. Mind you, I am not agreeing with either side on here. I have my own understanding I feel I have discerned through my own studies, and do not feel the need to debate. I would suggest studying and praying to come to the conclusion.

 

[Breetai]

I would suggest studying and praying to come to the conclusion.

Why would an atheist pray?

 

[heavenlyboheme]

If people accept her leadership and she is anointed by God, she should be a pastor.

 

[acarrollfan]

My church has got 3 lady pastors...

 

[Abigayle's Legacy]

I am an Assembly of God Reverend, I think this article will scriptually shed light on this topic. http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/PP_The_Role_of_Women_in_Ministry.pdf

 

[Southern Preachers Son]

I also agree that women do not have biblical athority to become a pastor over a congregation. But if a woman already is in that position, and is winning souls to Christ, I for one am not going to tell her to step down. She can read 1 Tim:12-14 and make the decision for herself.

 

[lvmangione]

I actually didn't read any of this thread except the first page. Just wanted to pop in here and say that bible verse (1 timothy 12-14 I think) says "I" do not appoint anyone. I as in Paul. Not as in Jesus. There's other teachings where Paul has also said "I, not the Lord" so.. that confuses me a bit, I can't really figure out what that means.

 

[sonofmarc]

I think that we can b pastors the bible says nothin that says we cant and i also think that as long as we r preachin the right things and ppl r givin there life 2 god y does it madder ppl r gettin saved and r gettin another chance 2 go 2 heaven and not hell
thats my opinion

I know this tread is years old, but this one struck me and I need to address it so we don't go out making mistakes. You're right to some extent, the bible didn't say women can't preach, but it did say that they can't expend their authority over men. Personally, I wouldn't mind a woman pastoring me. Now, I hope you do realise this is the bible talking. We may have our opinions but it is not our place as christians to expostulate the principles that God has laid down. Remember, the case of king Saul and Uzzah; obedient is better than sacrifice. There are certain things that seem right in our eyes, but God knows better. He created the universe without seeking our opinion, yet every matter that exist within it is in perfect symmetry. On that stance only, I believe there is a reason why He made things the way they are. We have been called to serve, as servants to a Master. You can read more of this on my blog: sonofmarc.wordpress.com. Godbless

 

[Awaken4Christ]

(please excuse the title of my post, it was from the wrong thread)

Hmmm. Good question. Well if a women is given a gift of preaching, should she preach? (teach)
1 Corinthians 14:34

"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."

but then we have verses like this:

Acts 18:26

"He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately."


I would like to put a hypothetical out here.
So to be orderly and for Women to stay in their roles they should let the men teach. and not order men around or teach.


but on the same hand there has to be instances where the women would have to teach. Probably not in a church since men would be there to teach. But lets say street preaching perhaps. Or maybe when the Gospel Isn't being preached to its fullest... the man in acts isn't taught in front of the whole temple though, he is taken aside, probably in a respectful manner, dare I say in a submissive manner. Paul has a reoccurring theme of orderliness.

I think we have to ask ourselves when is the proper time for a women to teach or preach. Assume that the women is the only one with the knowledge of the scriptures, that no men have it, then what?

I also think it could be argued that Paul in Corinthians and Timothy might not be talking in a borad sense but more in a situational sense I.E. being in a church.

I think the church should be lead by a Biblical man. but i also believe there are occasions where I women could technically teach, and I thin that might have to do with situations mostly outside of the church. This has peeked my curiosity and I am going to study this more in depth.