Can a women be a 'pastor'?

[chaundel]

We have ppl saying yes and we have ppl saying no, opinions on the left and the right, how about this, we see what the facts say, # bible

 

[chaundel]

Anyone backing up their statements with Gods word, you might want to check that out # notice how I didn't say them using Gods word and then making their own statements

 

[albrecht]

The rector at my church is a woman and she, and other women and men, administer the sacraments. I've also been to churches where the head pastor was a man and was entirely unsuited for ministry; it's not an issue of gender, but of calling.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Women can have and should have equal authority in the Church.

Who was the first to witness and report Jesus' resurrection - the first to "preach the Good News"? A woman.

 

[Breetai]

Anyone backing up their statements with Gods word, you might want to check that out # notice how I didn't say them using Gods word and then making their own statements

You mean how the person above this post just did?

 

[chaundel]

Lol well how about this; I have scripture that supports that a woman indeed should NOT be a pastor, bishop, or any other kind of teacher in the church, that involves them teaching men, plz no bias comments, let's all get on one accord with Gods word and talk with love just saints edification, I only want to spread what I know to be true in Gods word

 

[chaundel]

I don't wanna know what people say, because guess what, ppl are not Gods word, people can however be sincerly wrong , and nobody likes to be wrong but we need the truth saints, too much confusion goin on in the world and God is not the author of confusion, we are His ppl, let's get on one accord

 

[Breetai]

Lol well how about this; I have scripture that supports that a woman indeed should NOT be a pastor, bishop, or any other kind of teacher in the church, that involves them teaching men, plz no bias comments, let's all get on one accord with Gods word and talk with love just saints edification, I only want to spread what I know to be true in Gods word

The person I was referring to above disagrees with you saying that women should not be a pastor, etc. They did what you said not to do.

So, why don't you post the scripture that you are referring to? It would have already been in this thread I'm sure, but never any harm posting it again!

 

[albrecht]

Lol well how about this; I have scripture that supports that a woman indeed should NOT be a pastor, bishop, or any other kind of teacher in the church, that involves them teaching men, plz no bias comments, let's all get on one accord with Gods word and talk with love just saints edification, I only want to spread what I know to be true in Gods word

Faith and ministry should be centered in Christ, not in patriarchy.

One of the verses you might cite to support your position would be 1 Timothy 2:12, which says "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Or you might reference some passages in 1 Corinthians, which claim that it is a "shame for women to speak in the church." Yet in the surrounding passages - 1 Cor. 11:5 for example - he speaks of women prophesying, and in 11:12 adds that "woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

You have to distinguish between passages that describe our relationship to one another and those that describe our relationship to God. In many of the epistles of the New Testament, particular groups of believers are being counseled on particular issues in a particular time. Some parts of the letters still apply as guides for faith and salvation, others are more peculiar to the culture of the 1st century Mediterranean. When you read the New Testament, keep in mind that it was written in a time of profound patriarchy and misogyny. Paul was not himself unaffected by this, and he was writing to people who were also not unaffected by this. He was trying to give direction to people to let Christ, rather than personal issues and conflicts, be the center of the church; his instructions on gender roles were situational.

The Bible is not abstract. It was produced by many different authors at different times and collected by human beings. It is record that people have produced of their experiences of the living God. But we not only have to interpret verses in the context of the whole letter or book as well as the whole of the Bible itself, we have to interpret different parts of the Bible in light of the times and conditions under which they were produced. It does not excuse us from using our own traditions, reasoning, and experience to make decisions for ourselves and seek God's will for our own lives. It does not excuse us from taking responsibility for the way we treat others. It does not give anyone a free pass to deny a woman's call to ministry.

 

[chaundel]

Prophesying is telling of what will happen in the future...not teaching for a woman to be a pastor or bishop etc, she would have to 'teach' the word of God, or to usurp authority over a man. You look into other things because you want it to be so, you're telling us about other things but please tell me where it says its ok to disobey my word. And yu say that book was written by men, oh yes, written with men's hands but inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16) meaning its not only written by men but authorized by God, and what about the scripture that says let nothing be added unto this book and let nothing be taken away?? Give me scriptures that speak for they're selves! That doesn't require biased explanations, let Gods word be true but every man a liar (Romans 3:4)

 

[chaundel]

Faith and ministry should be centered in Christ, not in patriarchy.

One of the verses you might cite to support your position would be 1 Timothy 2:12, which says "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Or you might reference some passages in 1 Corinthians, which claim that it is a "shame for women to speak in the church." Yet in the surrounding passages - 1 Cor. 11:5 for example - he speaks of women prophesying, and in 11:12 adds that "woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

You have to distinguish between passages that describe our relationship to one another and those that describe our relationship to God. In many of the epistles of the New Testament, particular groups of believers are being counseled on particular issues in a particular time. Some parts of the letters still apply as guides for faith and salvation, others are more peculiar to the culture of the 1st century Mediterranean. When you read the New Testament, keep in mind that it was written in a time of profound patriarchy and misogyny. Paul was not himself unaffected by this, and he was writing to people who were also not unaffected by this. He was trying to give direction to people to let Christ, rather than personal issues and conflicts, be the center of the church; his instructions on gender roles were situational.

The Bible is not abstract. It was produced by many different authors at different times and collected by human beings. It is record that people have produced of their experiences of the living God. But we not only have to interpret verses in the context of the whole letter or book as well as the whole of the Bible itself, we have to interpret different parts of the Bible in light of the times and conditions under which they were produced. It does not excuse us from using our own traditions, reasoning, and experience to make decisions for ourselves and seek God's will for our own lives. It does not excuse us from taking responsibility for the way we treat others. It does not give anyone a free pass to deny a woman's call to ministry.

I was reading this and it didn't make sense to me as far as the scriptures you stated to justify a woman can be a pastor, and forgive me if I seem to offend, but your taking truth and mixing it with what you want it to be, someone said the bible makes women as if they are slaves, and the man seems to be glorified , so many women are angry inwardly about that, so they 'compete' with man forgetting that God is also over men, but God did place men over us, they read that a woman is Spossed to have a meek and quiet spirit, and that's hard for many women to grasp, but Obeying God isnt always easy, if it takes for me to be seen as weak in the sight of the whole world to get to heaven, then I'm going to be seen as weak, God said pick up your cross, not drag it...

 

[chaundel]

The person I was referring to above disagrees with you saying that women should not be a pastor, etc. They did what you said not to do.

So, why don't you post the scripture that you are referring to? It would have already been in this thread I'm sure, but never any harm posting it again!

Oh man where do I begin! Lol but first lemme say this, we see women going through so much in the bible and we see men to be so righteous and glorified and that doesn't sit will with some so they're gonna learn something contrary to Gods word and they're gonna teach it to others and so on and so forth, God gave me the truth about this matter, because I was one of those that believed a woman can indeed be a pastor, and then I believed that it rly wasn't doing much harm for a woman to preach, but anything that's not of God the devil will most def. have something to do with it, if we should have a meek and quiet spirit as the bible says so then why are women so clamorous and loud? I'm talking about women in the church, they wanna say I'm humble but when they needa get radical it's ok, a meek and quiet spirit is a characteristic,if it's just being shown when others are watching then its just an act. Check out 1 Tim 2:9-14. ESP vrs 14

 

[chaundel]

And if anybody wants the truth email me, I will explain it backing it up with Gods word , you can ask me any questions, God has given me the gift of understanding, so many ppl see what's on the surface but I see whats underneath, message me or email me. This isn't just a discussion voicing opinions God wants His truth known, this isn't a light matter, you gotta ask yourself, why would I,a woman myself even say these things? I must be afraid of something? But please believe If I can come before you all so boldly denying something that so many call right, then there must be something divine moving me to do this

 

[albrecht]

Prophesying is telling of what will happen in the future...not teaching for a woman to be a pastor or bishop etc, she would have to 'teach' the word of God, or to usurp authority over a man. You look into other things because you want it to be so, you're telling us about other things but please tell me where it says its ok to disobey my word. And yu say that book was written by men, oh yes, written with men's hands but inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16) meaning its not only written by men but authorized by God, and what about the scripture that says let nothing be added unto this book and let nothing be taken away?? Give me scriptures that speak for they're selves! That doesn't require biased explanations, let Gods word be true but every man a liar (Romans 3:4)

All of the texts you're quoting weren't even considered scriptures at the time they were written.

 

[albrecht]

I was reading this and it didn't make sense to me as far as the scriptures you stated to justify a woman can be a pastor,

The passages I cited were ones you might use to defend your position, and I explained why they don't work.

and forgive me if I seem to offend, but your taking truth and mixing it with what you want it to be,

Do you cover your head when in church? Do you wear any jewelry, any adornment whatsoever? Makeup?

someone said the bible makes women as if they are slaves, and the man seems to be glorified ,

Yes, the Bible was written by a lot of people who were culturally sexist. But Christ's own treatment of women suggests that He had an egalitarian view of gender, and that is the main issue.

so many women are angry inwardly about that, so they 'compete' with man forgetting that God is also over men, but God did place men over us,

The only legitimate authority is that established by God. If women are called to the ministry, then their ministry has authority. You cannot claim to speak for God just because you have a cherry-picked pet interpretation of scripture.

they read that a woman is Spossed to have a meek and quiet spirit, and that's hard for many women to grasp, but Obeying God isnt always easy, if it takes for me to be seen as weak in the sight of the whole world to get to heaven, then I'm going to be seen as weak, God said pick up your cross, not drag it...

Pardon me if I'm not convinced. Excuses like yours have been used to justify slavery and violence against women for centuries. I don't think "freedom in Christ" means being a slave to fundamentalism and poor moral reasoning.

 

[albrecht]

Oh man where do I begin! Lol but first lemme say this, we see women going through so much in the bible and we see men to be so righteous and glorified and that doesn't sit will with some so they're gonna learn something contrary to Gods word and they're gonna teach it to others and so on and so forth, God gave me the truth about this matter,

Oh really? Because God gave me the truth on this matter too! Well, now, what are we going to do? Rock paper scissors? Flip a coin to decide who God really spoke to?

I guess we could always go with the rational approach of debating whose interpretation of scripture actually makes more sense. But you don't seem terribly interested in doing that, because you deny that your interpretation is an interpretation at all, a denial that suggests that you don't know how to defend it in ways other than making claims nobody can back up - i.e. "God gave me the truth."

You're offering excuses, not arguments.

 

[chaundel]

You do realize you just said we don't have to obey the word of God if we feel we have a better way? And the reason it's used to justify slavery is because of the misunderstanding of God, are we to disobey God and make void His word because man has twisted it?? We should earnestly seek the truth, this world has changed but God said I change not, peoples ways have changed but Gods doesn't change unless stated in His word.

 

[chaundel]

And forgive but your looking at my words without discernment of the Holy Ghost, for instance the jewelry part, if it is saying to do that, I don't believe many would accept it, because it's not about what God wants, it's about the way they want things to be, I'm not saying that's what it means because I have yet to study and meditate on it, but I will say this Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me, what are you willing to give up for Christ sake? It's it our will or His be done? But like I said in the beginning, give me one scripture to back up that a woman can be a pastor, I know women can preach because preaching is spreading a message, or telling something but the bible clearly says a woman should not teach, idk about you, but I wont disobey God, we cannot disobey His word whenever it was written, what part of the bible does it say' you may ignore my word depending on when it was written or if it's convenient to you'. The bible says in 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

 

[chaundel]

Chapter 17 shows why Gods word is given, not to make one person right and one person wrong but check out 2 Tim 3:17

 

[Breetai]

Anyone backing up their statements with Gods word, you might want to check that out # notice how I didn't say them using Gods word and then making their own statements

You just did this, times 10...

...God has given me the gift of understanding, so many ppl see what's on the surface but I see whats underneath...

You're going to need to demonstrate this. Preferably not in a long run-on sentence that hinders the understanding of what you are typing.


So, Chaundel, you say that woman should not be at the head of a church (ie. pastor, priest, etc.) or teach men. I'm not disagreeing with you, but how do you answer what Albrect just said here?:

Do you cover your head when in church? Do you wear any jewelry, any adornment whatsoever? Makeup?

Paul said these things in addition to saying that woman should not teach in church. How do you rectify this? What about if you are on your monthly period? Do you leave your house and go out in public? If so, how do you justify doing so? The scriptures say that you should not be in public during this time.


Also, please contain your subsequent posts into ONE post. You're taking up a lot of thread space. If you need to add more to a post, you can edit your last one.

 

[chaundel]

And ok let me come back down, forgive me again if my word offend, I'm not trying to make myself to know everything, but I'm only stating what Gods word says, to argue with the scriptures I wrote would be to argue with Gods word, you say they weren't scriptures at the time, but God knew they would be, you have to also realize God foreknew us, He knows tomorrow and all the future, He knew what He was doin when He allowed that to be put in there, His word is PERFECT, there are no flaws, amen?