Can a Presbyterian Believe in the Virgin of Guadalupe?

[PanDeVida]

A Presbyterian can believe that a miracle happened, even among Catholics. That's the topic statement for the thread. But the posting goes beyond that to look at the use of images, and devotions to Mary.

At that point it depends upon how images are used, and the attitude of people to them. Pictures of Biblical stories have been used in Sunday School and in stained glass windows. There the purpose is to remind people of Biblical events. Pictures of non-Bibical people that might inspire us with their lives can be OK as well. I have a problem when the nature of the image or how it's used begins to encourage "devotion" to them. I suppose in some sense I'm devoted to John Calvin. But the closer that devotion gets to the worship of God the more I become concerned. It's hard to know from the article how close that ministry is coming, but I'd bet it's closer than I would consider proper.

I have a problem with devotion to Mary even during the Christmas season. I find the emphasis on her consent to God a bit overblown. As far as I can tell from the story, the angel didn't actually give her a choice. She was just acknowledging what she had been told was going to happen.

Hedrick, "All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed"...

Hedrick, Is it good to say, that you want no part of that/this "Generation" that Calls Mary Blessed, even at Christmas? Remember, it was by the Holy Spirit that Mary Our Mother spoke thus, that all generation shall call Her Blessed. Amen

Hedrick, also you state:"As far as I can tell from the story, the angel didn't actually give her a choice"... i,i,i,...

Hedrick, do you believe that God gave us all Free Will to say YES or NO to Him? Thus why there is a Heaven and a Hell and we choose the abode we want to live in, now and in eternity, by our Free Will. In other words WE all have a Choice.

Common sense shows, by the announcement of the angel Gabriel, to Mary is Proof Mary had a Choice. Hedrick, You may say what do you mean, ok! Hedrick, again, you state: "the angel didn't actually give her a choice". Hedrick, then if Mary, did not have a choice, then why did GOD bother to send His angel to even tell Mary, Anything!

Common sense, tells us, that the angel Gabriel, left Mary, when Mary said: Luke 1: 38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Hedrick, NOTE: After Mary said "BE IT DONE TO ME" aka YES! The Angel departed from Her. Amen Amen The Yes by Mary was given. Amen

Hedrick, Mary could have easily said: Be It Not Done To Me According to thy word. Now, where would that leave us? The answer: It would of been, Eve, eating the apple all over again.

Hedrick, however, this New Eve aka Mary, God created Her like no other, She is the BEST by FAR of all of God Creation, Mary Herself, filled with the Holy Spirit, States in Luke 1: 49Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

Hedrick, God knew that He Created Mary So Perfect, with out spot nor blemish. Without the stain of original sin, unlike us, that She would say YES, However, God would never take advantage of a person's free will, to say Yes or No, to Him. Amen

Hedrick, you may say to me, how do you know that God would not take advantage of Mary's free will? My answer to you is, the Holy Ghost, does not rape, in OTHER WORDS, in order for a couple to get married in the Church, both, both have to say, I DO!

Hedrick, Yes, Mary is without Spot or Blemish, If you can't believe this, then, you don't know the Power of God. (This is another Topic)

Hedrick, you mentioned: "I have a problem with devotion to Mary even during the Christmas season".

Hedrick, OK! Devotion/Devoted etc.. Don't know your Marital status, however, is it a Sin to have/be devoted/Devotion to a wife or to a husband??? Lets see what Scripture states for husbands and wives: Ephesians 5: 22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

Hendrick, NOTE: SUBMIT AS YOU DO TO THE LORD?? Well, if Submit is not Being or having Devotion to a Husband, I don't know what is.

Hendrick, what about: Ephesians 5: 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing... Kendrick, well, in order for a Man to LOVE His WIFE, Well, LOVE is the Definition of DEVOTION, and vice versa, to his Wife. Amen

Again, Ephesians 5: 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united/Cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. Hmmm United/Cling = Devotion.

So when does Devotion to someone becomes wrong? The answer is, when you put the person or persons, husband or wife or anything, above GOD. Such as Wine, drinking wine is not a sin, but it becomes a sin, when you put it, before God, into drunkenness.

You may say what about IMAGES: Well, did not God have Moses erect a bronze serpent, in order that the Jews who were bitten, to look upon it and be saved/healed? It only, later became a sin when some of the Jews started to worship it.

Kendrick, I'm sure you have an image/drawing/picture of a loved one living or deceased that you have in your wallet or hanging in your home, that you look upon it from time to time, or if you have an image of a person who is living or deceased in your mind/heart that you think upon, well this is devotion to that some one.

Kendrink, be not mistaken nor be scared of the word devotion. It is good to give devotion to all of God Creation, why because the Lord, is in them.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

pragmatism is a powerful drug...