Can a person who doesn't believe Jesus literally rose be saved? (duplicate)

[JohnClay]

edit:
Oops I realised that I posted a similar topic 2 years ago:
Being saved while believing in a non-physical resurrection?

 

[sandman]

When you think about it it’s kind of a ridiculous question…You really haven’t looked into it much …if any.

And yet you probably have no problem believing that Kant, Aristotle, Plato, Nietzsche were all real and all lived…But, who alive has seen them…

The thing is we have writings from those men, documentation of their lives and some rough pictures and busts…. but mostly notably ….writings and documentation.

What do we have of Jesus other than the obvious….. Bible. There are countless documentations of what took place during that time …there were above 500 people who saw him after the resurrection and then you had the secondhand accounts passed along…what you don’t have is writings stating that it never happened….

Then read the accounts of how the 12 apostles died …(listed below) and ask yourself. These guys hung with J …they witnessed his death and resurrection ….If it never happened…. do you think these guys would have endured this for a fable?

In the end…. it really doesn’t matter what you believe….but, if your going to believe something you really should have a solid foundation on which to stand.


1. Matthew. Suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, Killed by a sword wound.

2. Mark. Died in Alexandria, Egypt , after being dragged by Horses through the streets until he was dead.

3. Luke. Was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous Preaching to the lost.

4. John. Faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge Basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution In Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered From death.

John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison Island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos . The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve As Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey . He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully

5. Peter. He was crucified upside down on an x shaped cross. According to church tradition it was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die In the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

6. James. The leader of the church in Jerusalem , was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club.

This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

7. James the Son of Zebedee was a fisherman by trade when Jesus Called him to a lifetime of ministry.

As a strong leader of the church, James was beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial.

Later, the officer Walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and Knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

8. Bartholomew. Also known as Nathaniel. He Was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.

9. Andrew. He Was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony.

His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words, "I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it". He continued to preach to his tormentors For two days until he expired.

10. Thomas. He Was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the Subcontinent.

11. Jude. He Was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

12. Matthias. The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot. He was stoned and then beheaded.

 

[JohnClay]

When you think about it it’s kind of a ridiculous question…You really haven’t looked into it much …if any.

And yet you probably have no problem believing that Kant, Aristotle, Plato, Nietzsche were all real and all lived…But, who alive has seen them…

I believe that Jesus lived I just don't believe that he literally rose from the dead. It seems liberal Christians like the Baptist minister Martin Luther King also didn't believe in a physical resurrection. My theory is that it could have involved mistaken identity e.g. like this example involving 6000 in the crowd:

V: Jesus in Nairobi, Kenya, 1988

Though 6000 people were involved I guess Christians would believe that it wasn't really Jesus based on the photos. But we don't have photos from the 500 person sighting.

In Mark 6:14 Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist back from the dead while others believed that Jesus was Elijah. That goes to show in the Bible that a person could be considered to be resurrected even if they looked different.

But I don't think I'm meant to be defending my beliefs which could be non-Christian.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

How can you "call on the Lord to be saved" if you don't believe he rose from the dead? Why would you believe he saved from your sin? Or why even believe the Whole Christian narrative regarding the Fall in the 1st place, as opposed to all the other World Religions out there that have more agreeable metaphysics and more permissive ethics and morals?

Besides that there is the whole issue of "Lordship" and what that means etc.

But that would be problematic for a person who is looking to game loopholes as far as belief goes.

 

[JohnClay]

How can you "call on the Lord to be saved" if you don't believe he rose from the dead? Why would you believe he saved from your sin? Or why even believe the Whole Christian narrative regarding the Fall in the 1st place, as opposed to all the other World Religions out there that have more agreeable metaphysics and more permissive ethics and morals? Besides that there is the whole issue of "Lordship" and what that means etc.

Can you question the Resurrection and still be a Christian?
I found this:

Did Jesus literally rise from the dead in a bodily resurrection, as many traditionalist and conservative Christians believe? Or was his rising a symbolic one, a restoration of his spirit of love and compassion to the world, as members of some more liberal brands of Christianity hold?

As Easter approaches, many Christians struggle with how to understand the Resurrection. How literally must one take the Gospel story of Jesus' triumph to be called a Christian? Can one understand the Resurrection as a metaphor -- perhaps not even believe it happened at all -- and still claim to be a follower of Christ?
​

So some people who call themselves Christians don't believe in a literal physical resurrection......

 

[Tolworth John]

edit:
Oops I realised that I posted a similar topic 2 years ago:
Being saved while believing in a non-physical resurrection?

1 Cor15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

No you do not have to believe the bible, or the reasoning above.

People can believe fantastic things with no evidence so go ahead.

The bible is clear, no physical resurrection, no Christianity.

 

[Sophrosyne]

One can be ignorant of that fact, but if confronted with the scriptures that he did rise from the dead and reject it likely they believe in the wrong version of Jesus.

 

[klutedavid]

edit:
Oops I realised that I posted a similar topic 2 years ago:
Being saved while believing in a non-physical resurrection?

The death and resurrection of Jesus was the premier revelation of the scripture. God made it very clear that salvation will be based solely on the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

The definition of a Christian is precisely; someone who believes in the death and resurrection of the Christ.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Why would you believe in Jesus but not the resurrection? Where did you hear about Jesus?

 

[JohnClay]

Why would you believe in Jesus but not the resurrection? Where did you hear about Jesus?

I don't really believe in miracles (though I believe I'm probably in a simulation/video game - that is indistinguishable from a godless/atheistic view)

 

[sandman]

I believe that Jesus lived I just don't believe that he literally rose from the dead. It seems liberal Christians like the Baptist minister Martin Luther King also didn't believe in a physical resurrection. My theory is that it could have involved mistaken identity e.g. like this example involving 6000 in the crowd:

V: Jesus in Nairobi, Kenya, 1988

Though 6000 people were involved I guess Christians would believe that it wasn't really Jesus based on the photos. But we don't have photos from the 500 person sighting.

In Mark 6:14 Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist back from the dead while others believed that Jesus was Elijah. That goes to show in the Bible that a person could be considered to be resurrected even if they looked different.

But I don't think I'm meant to be defending my beliefs which could be non-Christian.

Well, if He didn't get up ...he didn't conquer death, which means, we are all without hope.

I don't understand why it is so hard to believe ...I have seen it happen with others in my lifetime ....my daughter being one.

 

[IWalkAlone]

I don't really believe in miracles (though I believe I'm probably in a simulation/video game - that is indistinguishable from a godless/atheistic view)

The resurrection is the best part. We will be resurrected too.

 

[JohnClay]

The resurrection is the best part. We will be resurrected too.

As far as my own beliefs go I believe I could have started to play a game like the Roy game in Rick and Morty and at death I could "wake up" and remember my original identity...

 

[IWalkAlone]

As far as my own beliefs go I believe I could have started to play a game like the Roy game in Rick and Morty and at death I could "wake up" and remember my original identity...

What do you mean? What game?

 

[JohnClay]

What do you mean? What game?

In the sci-fi comedy cartoon "Rick and Morty", Morty plays a game called the Roy game that is indistinguishable from reality and he forgets his original identity...
Note this video includes the S*** swear word....
YouTube - Rick and Morty - the Roy game
My life could be a bit like that....

 

[IWalkAlone]

In the sci-fi comedy cartoon "Rick and Morty", Morty plays a game called the Roy game that is indistinguishable from reality and he forgets his original identity...
Note this video includes the S*** swear word....
YouTube - Rick and Morty - the Roy game
My life could be a bit like that....

What is your original identity and what is the game?

 

[JohnClay]

What is your original identity and what is the game?

For me, JohnClay is my identity in the game and I'm not sure about my original identity....
Also there is another theory I'm a fan of - where originally I have god-like control over my life:

 

[IWalkAlone]

For me, JohnClay is my identity in the game and I'm not sure about my original identity....
Also there is another theory I'm a fan of - where originally I have god-like control over my life:

Do you think you are another person? Why do you believe that?

 

[JohnClay]

Do you think you are another person? Why do you believe that?

It is similar to the fairly widespread belief in reincarnation except that the reincarnation wasn't forced. I think Alan Watts' thought experiment satisfactorily addresses the problem of suffering. The atheistic view is that suffering is just a part of the accident of life.

 

[IWalkAlone]

It is similar to the fairly widespread belief in reincarnation except that the reincarnation wasn't forced. I think Alan Watts' thought experiment satisfactorily addresses the problem of suffering. The atheistic view is that suffering is just a part of the accident of life.

I believe we are reborn. I for one look forward to becoming new. God has shown me my selfishness and it disturbs me. I have other flaws too. Without Jesus I wouldn't have a chance to be justified in God's eyes and not in my own either, thanks to him for opening my eyes. Without him I would not see my selfishness either.