Can a person having the Holy Spirit be condemned?

[Aussie Pete]

A person who is filled with the Holy Spirit today - still has free will tomorrow therefore Paul says "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it" - 1 Cor 9

There is no salvation apart from Christ, and apart from the Gospel

And yet you put yourself and others under the law?

 

[zoidar]

Either we are children of God through faith and obedience or only by faith. I'm not sure which. I would like it to be by faith alone, because how can I find true peace if my obedience or lack of obedience will determine my eternal destination.

There are many "faith plus works" - people living in an unhealthy relationship with Christ, always feeling they have to do more.

There are also those "faith alone" - people that live an unhealthy relationship with Christ, not living in service to God.

So I don't know.

 

[JIMINZ]

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


Phl 2:12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

You must take note of the context for both of your references.

They do not apply to all sin or Christians of today as you are espousing.

 

[HTacianas]

You must take note of the context for both of your references.

They do not apply to all sin or Christians of today as you are espousing.

What exactly are the parts of the bible that don't apply to everyone?

The references I provided are written in plain language and are easily understood.

 

[JIMINZ]

These verses say you can lose salvation which I agree on, but do they say if a believer can be condemned at the judgement having the Holy Spirit?

The verses are case specific not applicable to every Christian.

 

[JIMINZ]

What exactly are the parts of the bible that don't apply to everyone?

The two you used, which I pointed out are out of their context.

Just because something was written in the New Testament does not automatically mean it is for us of today, or anyone else after they were originally spoken.

The references I provided are written in plain language and are easily understood.

I beg to differ with you on that, owing to the fact you have used them the way you have.

 

[HTacianas]

The two you used, which I pointed out are out of their context.

Just because something was written in the New Testament does not automatically mean it is for us of today, or any any one else after they were originally spoken.




I beg to differ with you, owing to the fact you have used them the way you have.

You're not convincing me here. It says something and all you're saying is that you disagree with it but you give no reason for it.

 

[JIMINZ]

You're not convincing me here. It says something and all you're saying is that you disagree with it but you give no reason for it.

I did twice but I'm not going in to it right now because I am going to bed, I will answer later today.

Have a good day.

 

[Alain Valdivia]

A person who currently possess the Spirit also possess sanctifying grace whereby they are made just and holy. Anyone who dies with sanctifying grace has the Spirit, therefore, they will not be condemned by the eternal punishment due to sin.
Yes, a person must lose the Spirit in order for them to be condemned. They who commit mortal sin and die impenitent prove themselves to not be the children of God anymore, but the children of the devil in as much as they do unrighteousness and don’t possess inward charity. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil. Whosoever is not just, is not of God, nor he that loveth not his brother.” (‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:10‬). Only they who by faith, have been united to Christ and, being perfected by charity, grow more and more in their justice, they are the children of God. “For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” (‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:14). How then do we know that one is lead by the blessed Spirit and possess that sanctifying grace needed to inherit eternal life? The previous verse explains it well, “For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.” ‭(Romans‬ ‭8:13‬). Those then, who mortify the desires of the flesh (sin) and crucify their lusts, they are properly called the sons of God. Those that are in Christ have the Spirit (Romans 8:9) and as the Apostle asserts, “And they that are Christ's, have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences.” ‭‭(Galatians‬ ‭5:24).
As regards our peace of conscience and sense of God’s love towards us I will only say that we must trust only in the mercy and grace of God. If any person begins to place themselves as the primary source of comfort they will live the rest of their lives in torment. No, we must indulge ourselves in the grace and goodness of our God who’s bowels of compassion enticed Him to send His Son to merit salvation for His people. Everyday, when you examine your conscience remember to pray to God, “Oh Lord! You know I am a mere worm. A sinful and prodigal soul. I pray you, most merciful God, that you would have mercy on me. If You should mark my sins, who could stand? For all your servants and sons have many blemishes and many defects. But with you there is forgiveness. Oh God, do not judge me according to Your justice, but according to Your mercy. In You alone do I place my trust and in You alone do I hope to be saved. Amen.” And may we, like St. Ambrose, trust only in the mercy of God in that dreadful day when the souls of men will be before the Judgment Throne of God. “Let no man arrogate anything to himself. Let no man glory in his own merits or good deeds. Let no man boast of his power. Let us all hope to find mercy by our Lord Jesus, for we shall all stand before his judgment seat. Of him I will beg pardon. Of him I will desire indulgence. What other hope is there for sinners?”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?

The Holy Spirit is the power of God here on earth and our connection to Him. Those who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit are in the Body of Christ, The Kingdom of God. Those who quench the Holy Spirit are rejecting the power and connection to our Father. He seeks a relationship with us and His will be done through our obedience. If this type of relationship does not exist through His Spirit then He will say "I never knew you".

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[corinth77777]

Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?

Just to play the critical Advocate
Is the purpose of being sealed until redemption day....so that we can be led by the Spirit and purify ourselves by the word?

And when we get to that day if indeed we do such, will we be standing at His coming?
Meaning having made ourselves ready?

So why called children? Is it away of expressing the status we take on through being fathered by Him?

Once redemption day comes will you still have the Spirit?

 

[corinth77777]

The Holy Spirit is the power of God here on earth and our connection to Him. Those who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit are in the Body of Christ, The Kingdom of God. Those who quench the Holy Spirit are rejecting the power and connection to our Father. He seeks a relationship with us and His will be done through our obedience. If this type of relationship does not exist through His Spirit then He will say "I never knew you".

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And to add: the will of the father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have Life and be raised on the last Day.

People can use His name and do things in a person's name and never come to put their trust in Him. Just use Him to gain people's admiration or money. You know?

He didnt say they didn't know Him...and that's funny.....He said He didnt know them.

He never had a relationship

 

[corinth77777]

The Holy Spirit is the power of God here on earth and our connection to Him. Those who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit are in the Body of Christ, The Kingdom of God. Those who quench the Holy Spirit are rejecting the power and connection to our Father. He seeks a relationship with us and His will be done through our obedience. If this type of relationship does not exist through His Spirit then He will say "I never knew you".

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Can you explain the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is that regeneration?
Or the the filling up of what is in you?

 

[corinth77777]

Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?

Why was the Holy Spirit a pledge?

 

[corinth77777]

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


Phl 2:12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Interesting...

Because my take on this is....God brought men to Jesus out from the law....

But not all accepted Him, so they are cut off..
For there is no way to bare fruit onto life after receiving the knowledge of truth and rejecting it. Niether us who fail to receive Him as Lord.
I will look that up....because the law was holy and righteous..which means "in it" was goodness [to do it means to be in it in my opinionation]
For the Jews I wonder if to be "in it" was Just to believe with the intent to follow. As must have meant the same for Gentiles. Just thinking outloud

 

[corinth77777]

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


Phl 2:12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

In order to have life one must first be connected to the vine.

Aww So Jesus is His goodness, I must say the life He may be focused on is our life now.

The Eternal quality of life that comes by working out His faithful life, our salvation.

But all this are assumptions, it gives me a reason to study to prove if it's right or wrong

 

[corinth77777]

A person who is filled with the Holy Spirit today - still has free will tomorrow therefore Paul says "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it" - 1 Cor 9

There is no salvation apart from Christ, and apart from the Gospel

True, I agree with Dallas Willard when He says Salvation is being caught up in what God is doing now.

Look at all the deliverence stories in the Bible as one when
God said walk around the walls, the people did it and God was at work.

Or Asa getting rid of Idols and God protecting them, and result was it was quiet for many years.


Turning to Him may be a matter of leaving your fullness of life to someone or something else and allowing God to meet your daily life's needs...

It's a matter of entering His sabbath rest
For all days in Him is eternity [complete]
No worries, because He is in controll.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Can you explain the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is that regeneration?
Or the the filling up of what is in you?

Both. Regeneration into the Body of Christ, infilling manifesting as the fruit of the Spirit and His gifts to us.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Either we are children of God through faith and obedience or only by faith. I'm not sure which. I would like it to be by faith alone, because how can I find true peace if my obedience or lack of obedience will determine my eternal destination.

There are many "faith plus works" - people living in an unhealthy relationship with Christ, always feeling they have to do more.

There are also those "faith alone" - people that live an unhealthy relationship with Christ, not living in service to God.

So I don't know.

We are children of God by the new birth. I don't know how it is possible to be "unborn" again. The Bible makes it absolutely clear that we are eternal beings and that we have eternal life right now. Eternal means just that. It is true that to make progress in the Christian life we need to obey. That is the result of being saved, not in order to be saved.

The Christian life starts with "done". Does a bird strive to fly? No, it has flight inbuilt. Anyone trying to be a good Christian is unaware of what God has done for us in Christ. Lord Jesus said from the cross, "It is finished". The salvation He bought is complete. The NT is full of statements to that effect. Way too many Christians have a deep down desire to gain God's approval by their own efforts. It does not work. We are already complete in Christ. We are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

An interesting study is to see how often the NT declares what we have and who we are "in Christ". It's all in Him. Anyone trying to be Christlike has fallen for Satan's trap. He is the one who tried to make himself like God and look where that got him. The old song says, "Trust and obey". If we trust, obedience is easy. If we do not, it is near impossible. Obedience is essential for effective Christian living. But it has to be a consequence of salvation, not in order to get something from God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?

For me I believe if someone has the Holy Spirit that very same Spirit that works through God's Word will convict them of sin and righteousness and of judgment to come. We are only condemned if we continue in known unrepentant sin (breaking any one of God's commandments). If anyone who has God's Spirit knowingly does this than they have an advocate with the father and can seek God's forgiveness. If they do not seek God's forgiveness, they will remain condemned until they do. Those who do not seek God's forgiveness do not have God's forgiveness and remain condemned and no longer have God's Spirit until the seek God's forgivness through faith in His Word.