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Featured Can a person having the Holy Spirit be condemned?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by zoidar, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Vote here if you hold to OSAS.

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  2. No, a person having the Holy Spirit is a child of God and will be freed in judgement.

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  3. Yes, a person having the Holy Spirit at judgement can be condemned because of disobedience.

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Other (explain), or don't know

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%
  1. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Epg 1:10-14
    In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

    Rom 8:16-17
    The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.


    If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?
     
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  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

    Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


    Phl 2:12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
     
  3. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    once we receve the holy spirit we are seale but if u renounce your faith and abbandon god or die without asking for forgiveness
     
  4. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These verses say you can lose salvation which I agree on, but do they say if a believer can be condemned at the judgement having the Holy Spirit?
     
  5. jamesbond007

    jamesbond007 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was the unpardonable sin of ones who had received the Holy Spirit, but turned against him. It happened during Jesus' time as the Pharisees accused Jesus of being possessed by a demon despite all that he had done for them. They denied Jesus as the Messiah and went against what the Holy Spirit told them.

    Today, this sin falls upon those who continue to deny Jesus as the Messiah or Savior their entire lives.

    What Does the Bible Say About The Unpardonable Sin?
     
  6. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

    Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

    Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;

    Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
     
  7. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8 forgot the verse. Nothing in All creation can separate us from the Love of God.

    We will creepin to heaven shame faced, we will not hear 'Well Done' nurse will be welcomed.
     
  8. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Again much confusion arises because Christians are not aware of the two salvations. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. God justifies us, who is he that condemns? Satan is the accuser of the brethren, not God.

    It is possible to be born again and yet not allow God to change you. That's why there are so many exhortations in the Word addressed to Christians. A life lived for self is a life wasted. That person misses out on eternal rewards. They also miss out on God's best in this life. "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose".
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1. Nobody who is declared wicked - in the judgment - is also "filled with the Holy Spirit" -- you needed that as an option.

    2. Someone with the Holy Spirit - can grieve away the Holy Spirit - then be severed from Christ, fallen from Grace. Gal 5:4 -- i.e. -- lost

    3. "I forgave you all that debt" in Matthew 18 - followed by "forgiveness revoked".
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    or did you mean "A person who has the Holy Spirit today - can still be lost at the future judgment because in the future they choose to turn to wickedness and grieve away the Holy Spirit"???
     
  11. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This idea, logical as it is, borders on being a belief in different heavenly kingdom / degrees of glory ala LDS. No?
     
  12. Eha

    Eha Member

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    Holy Spirit is God, leading us, teaching us. He is always near you, as promised by Jesus, and wants to be in you.

    John 14:26
    But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

    You can't say "lose The Holy Spirit" - you do NOT own Him, He is here to help you, teach you.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Interesting point of speculation.

    1 John 2
    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    1 Cor 6 "Do not be deceived"
    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Matt 7
    16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
     
  14. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is the verse I would pick that would be in contention for the topic: "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven".

    I voted other and would say that some people aren't aware of how desperate their mind is. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9

    I've had my fair share of moments where circumstances had opened my eyes on how much I could despise the Holy Spirit. When blindness is no longer an option and you see how much you'd prefer to flip the middle finger towards the Holy Spirit as an unclean thing. That's when you know it's possible for any Christian to commit the unpardonable sin.

    The way I see the OSAS crowd, they're pre-Job before Satan targeted him personally.
     
  15. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My idea is: You are standing before God at the day of judgement. You have the Holy Spirit. Can a poorly lived life be a cause for God to condemn you? So it was not a question if you can lose the Holy Spirit during your life here on Earth, but if a believer that has the Holy Spirit after resurrection standing before God can be turned away to the "pit".
     
  16. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I don’t think so, because I believe person with Holy Spirit is righteous and has no sin.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23
     
  17. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you make a difference between having the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit?

    "2 No, a person having (being filled with) the Holy Spirit is a child of God and will be freed in judgement."
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Paul discusses this in Ephesians 4 & 5.

    Keep in mind who Paul is addressing in this epistle “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    “So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    “Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬
     
  19. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know what LDS teach. There is a part of human nature that we are born with, called the "soul-life". It's "pseuche" in Greek. It is the natural life that God imparted to Adam. The life that Lord Jesus came to give (John 10:10) is "zoe" life. It is the life that is in Christ Himself. The salvation of the soul is the degree to which a believer loses his "pseuche" life and replaces it with ""zoe" life.

    It comes about through the daily denial of self and carrying the cross. Every time our "pseuche" defers to the "zoe", the power of the "pseuche" is diminished. For example, you may really dislike a brother. Perhaps God tells you that you need to ask that brother to pray for you. Everything in the natural says, "No way!" Yet you obey because you know that it is God leading you. That act of obedience is wonderful because it effects a real change in your heart attitude. God is more able to use you in Kingdom work. This is a day by day work. When we deny self, something of us dies. More of Christ is revealed. Watchman Nee has great teaching on this in "The Salvation of the Soul".
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    A person who is filled with the Holy Spirit today - still has free will tomorrow therefore Paul says "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it" - 1 Cor 9

    There is no salvation apart from Christ, and apart from the Gospel
     
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