Can a Muslim or a Jew get saved?

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
that doesn't override the words of Christ Himself.

Every Christian is called to spread the Gospel so that all people can come to know Christ. Telling the Jews and Muslims that they are doomed to Hell is only going to drive them away, and that's not what we want. St. Paul was called the Apostle of the Gentiles because he converted more Gentiles to Christianity than any other Apostles. Following St. Paul's example can be beneficial in spreading the Gospel. First, establishing friendly relations with the Jews and having a dialogue with them is the step in the right direction. We have found common ground with the Jews. That common ground is the God of Abraham.

Below is a video clip of that Catholic organization in Israel that have established a dialogue with the Jews and who hold annual retreats with the Jewish Rabbis in the Domus Galilee. There were 800 Jewish families who celebrated the Epiphany of our Lord Jesus Christ with the Christians. The Epiphany is Christian, but imagine that....800 Jews came to celebrate the Epiphany with the Christians and they brought their children with them. What better way to introduce Jesus Christ through friendship and love? Already, the Holy Spirit is moving these Jews to get to know Christ. What is even more remarkable is that for the first time in many years, the Muslims were also coming around....out of curiosity, of course. But if Christians are to spread the Gospel so that all can come to know Him, it has to start somewhere. Telling them that they are doomed to Hell is only going to drive them away and it was never our place to judge who goes to Hell anyway.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Every Christian is called to spread the Gospel so that all people can come to know Christ. Telling the Jews and Muslims that they are doomed to Hell is only going to drive them away, and that's not what we want. St. Paul was called the Apostle of the Gentiles because he converted more Gentiles to Christianity than any other Apostles. Following St. Paul's example can be beneficial in spreading the Gospel. First, establishing friendly relations with the Jews and having a dialogue with them is the step in the right direction. We have found common ground with the Jews. That common ground is the God of Abraham.

Below is a video clip of that Catholic organization in Israel that have established a dialogue with the Jews and who hold annual retreats with the Jewish Rabbis in the Domus Galilee. There were 800 Jewish families who celebrated the Epiphany of our Lord Jesus Christ with the Christians. The Epiphany is Christian, but imagine that....800 Jews came to celebrate the Epiphany with the Christians and they brought their children with them. What better way to introduce Jesus Christ through friendship and love? Already, the Holy Spirit is moving these Jews to get to know Christ. What is even more remarkable is that for the first time in many years, the Muslims were also coming around....out of curiosity, of course. But if Christians are to spread the Gospel so that all can come to know Him, it has to start somewhere. Telling them that they are doomed to Hell is only going to drive them away and it was never our place to judge who goes to Hell anyway.


I never said we don't dialogue and I never said we say they are doomed. what I said was they do NOT worship the God of Abraham, since that is what Christ says.
 
Upvote 0

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I never said we don't dialogue and I never said we say they are doomed. what I said was they do NOT worship the God of Abraham, since that is what Christ says.

The God of Abraham is the One true God. Christians worship Him as well. The Jews also worship Him. They just don't know His nature.
 
Upvote 0

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Christ says they don't.

I disagree. Christ never said that the Jews don't worship the God of Abraham. He said that those who know Him knows the Father. and that He is the way to the Father. Both the Christians and Jews worship the same God. However, the Jews are ignorant of God's nature....that He is three Persons in one God.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I disagree. Christ never said that the Jews don't worship the God of Abraham. He said that those who know Him knows the Father. and that He is the way to the Father. Both the Christians and Jews worship the same God. However, the Jews are ignorant of God's nature....that He is three Persons in one God.
I believe this should its own thread. I will make one when I get out of class.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I disagree. Christ never said that the Jews don't worship the God of Abraham. He said that those who know Him knows the Father. and that He is the way to the Father. Both the Christians and Jews worship the same God. However, the Jews are ignorant of God's nature....that He is three Persons in one God.

yeah, He did. He said that whoever rejects Him rejects the Father. the Jews reject the Son. St John says anyone who says Christ didn't come in the flesh is Antichrist. the Jews say He didn't come in the flesh.
 
Upvote 0

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
yeah, He did. He said that whoever rejects Him rejects the Father. the Jews reject the Son. St John says anyone who says Christ didn't come in the flesh is Antichrist. the Jews say He didn't come in the flesh.

You cannot reject someone unless you are fully aware of who He is. The Jewish leaders were the ones who lied to their people. They told their people that Christ's body was stolen by the disciples and that He didn't rise from the dead. The solders who were there guarding the tomb saw what happened and reported it, but they were paid not to say anything. So, since that time, the Jewish people were misled, thinking that Christ didn't rise from the dead (See Matthew 28:11-15). They were kept ignorant. To this day, they continued to worship the God of Abraham, never knowing the truth of Christ and the day He resurrected from the dead.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
You cannot reject someone unless you are fully aware of who He is. The Jewish leaders were the ones who lied to their people. They told their people that Christ's body was stolen by the disciples and that He didn't rise from the dead. The solders who were there guarding the tomb saw what happened and reported it, but they were paid not to say anything. So, since that time, the Jewish people were misled, thinking that Christ didn't rise from the dead (See Matthew 28:11-15). They were kept ignorant. To this day, they continued to worship the God of Abraham, never knowing the truth of Christ and the day He resurrected from the dead.

that's why I also mentioned St John's quote.
 
Upvote 0

Barney2.0

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 1, 2017
6,003
2,336
Los Angeles
✟451,221.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The Jews reject Christ totally and the Muslims have a perverted view of him. None believe in Jesus as he truly came so none will receive eternal life except those that believe in him as he came. But if they truly believe and convert then I don’t see why they can’t get saved.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
The Jews reject Christ totally and the Muslims have a perverted view of him. None believe in Jesus as he truly came so none will receive eternal life except those that believe in him as he came. But if they truly believe and convert then I don’t see why they can’t get saved.

It's not our place to judge who receives eternal life or who doesn't. The Jews reject Christ as God, but they worship the God of Abraham as the one true God. And if you say they don't, there is a problem with that because they read and hold the Old Testament books. The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
It's not our place to judge who receives eternal life or who doesn't. The Jews reject Christ as God, but they worship the God of Abraham as the one true God. And if you say they don't, there is a problem with that because they read and hold the Old Testament books. The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament.

while you are right about not judging the eternal state of someone, you cannot reject Christ as God and worship the God of Abraham, since Christ is the God of Abraham.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: TheLostCoin
Upvote 0

straykat

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
1,120
640
Catacombs
✟22,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's not our place to judge who receives eternal life or who doesn't. The Jews reject Christ as God, but they worship the God of Abraham as the one true God. And if you say they don't, there is a problem with that because they read and hold the Old Testament books. The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament.
The God whom Abraham met IS Christ. Same with the mother of Ishamel and all Arabs, Hagar. Christ is the Word of the Lord through whom the Father created all things, and the Angel of the Lord who appeared to Abraham, to Hagar, to Jacob, to Moses, and so forth.

So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”' Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,786
Pacific Northwest
✟728,226.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I come from the position that God is pro-salvation. My Christianity is not me having won some special lottery or having earned some gold ticket to paradise. My Christianity is about me confessing the God who empties Himself in sacrifice, love, kindness, generosity, and weakness through the cross for the sake of all of us. That's who God is, the One who gives Himself away.

Christ is not the gatekeeper, but the Door, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The One by which we know God, and have life with God.

I simply do not understand the notion that God is insistent on keeping the gates of paradise locked and as tight as possible; everything in the Gospel screams the exact opposite. The gates of paradise have been flung open, and God in His infinite kindness invites all, withholding and barring none. Our hope in Christ is not about us having the magic ticket or being super special elites that get to enjoy something nobody else does, it's about the God who has shown Himself through the suffering and sacrifice of the cross.

God is for us, not against us. He is pro-salvation. The Gospel is not a candle to be hidden under a bushel, or a pearl to be buried in the sand, but the light that shines atop a hill and the precious treasure to be shown and given to all.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
while you are right about not judging the eternal state of someone, you cannot reject Christ as God and worship the God of Abraham, since Christ is the God of Abraham.
The Jews don't have the New Testament. They only have the Old Testament. Therefore, they are still under the law. St. Paul told the Jewish converts that they should not treat the Gentile converts as Jews. The reverse is also true. We cannot treat the Jews as Christians because they are still under the law while we are under grace.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The Jews don't have the New Testament. They only have the Old Testament. Therefore, they are still under the law. St. Paul told the Jewish converts that they should not treat the Gentile converts as Jews. The reverse is also true. We cannot treat the Jews as Christians because they are still under the law while we are under grace.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

no, again, Christ Himself says He fulfilled the Law.
 
Upvote 0

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
no, again, Christ Himself says He fulfilled the Law.
Scripture says that He is the God of both the Jews and Christians.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
 
Upvote 0

straykat

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
1,120
640
Catacombs
✟22,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Scripture says that He is the God of both the Jews and Christians.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

That doesn't say there are two covenants. And if Jews were meant to be under some separate covenant, that erases practically the WHOLE early church, at Pentecost and a beyond a bit even. Who were all Jews.

Why is it that modern Jews are somehow special, but all of these Jews in the New Testament followed and were responsible for spreading the word of Christ?

They were ALL Christians. Both Jews and Gentiles.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Scripture says that He is the God of both the Jews and Christians.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

no, He is the God of Jew and Gentile. Christians are composed of both Jew and Gentile. the Jews are not still under the Law, because that has been fulfilled.

you aren't arguing with me, but with the Lord Himself.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Selene03

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
342
119
61
Hagatna
✟15,025.00
Country
Guam
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
no, He is the God of Jew and Gentile. Christians are composed of both Jew and Gentile. the Jews are not still under the Law, because that has been fulfilled.

you aren't arguing with me, but with the Lord Himself.

We were the Gentiles. The word "Christian" was first applied to the Gentile converts in Antioch.

Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
 
Upvote 0