Can a lay person preside over the Lord's Supper?

[Albion]

Except they were not ordained in the formal sense.

Sure, they were. That is addressed right in the Bible verses.

There is no mention of theological degrees and indoctrination into a denominational straightjacket.

That's what you think being ordained means??

 

[Albion]

Sure it does, Don't be a Drunk, keep your children in order, be the husband of 1 wife, be given to Hospitality, and Teaching.

Good! If such qualifications -- any qualifications, for that matter -- are laid out in God's word and show us how the early church operated...then it is ridiculous for people to say that just any lay person can be a proper officiant.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Good! If such qualifications -- any qualifications, for that matter -- are laid out in God's word and show us how the early church operated...then it is ridiculous for people to say that just any lay person can be a proper officiant.

Unless or until the church closes shop and tells us it's temporarily abolished...

In my state that's until June 10th, and I honestly see no reason not to in the absense of anything resembling a physical church outside my home.

This is what we face. Church packed their bags. I'm not stopping having church, even if its in my home.

 

[Albion]

That wouldn't make any difference. The faith/religion itself doesn't change each time the government makes something less convenient for us Christians.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That wouldn't make any difference.

God found my husband good enough to lead me to Christ and support me after, I see no issue with continuing all aspects of church, regardless of whether he's a man widowed and therefore not technically within the qualifications.

 

[Albion]

God found my husband good enough to lead me to Christ and support me after, I see no issue with continuing all aspects of church, regardless of whether he's a man widowed and therefore not technically within the qualifications.

What are we talking about? I thought it was about the rightness or wrongness of allowing laypersons to officiate at the Lord's Supper.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What are we talking about? I thought it was about the rightness or wrongness of allowing laypersons to officiate at the Lord's Supper.

Yep. That's what we are talking about. My husband never became an ordained minister....

And I'll be honest, I think the question must also be asked whether the ministers who closed their churches contrary to all teachings of scripture are themselves qualified to administer the sacraments?

Since we are talking biblical qualifications here, shouldn't you actually follow scripture and believe in its words?

 

[Albion]

Yep. That's what we are talking about. My husband never became an ordained minister....

That's true for most husbands. So....?

The issue is not "Who is eligible (or qualified) to become a called and ordained minister of the Gospel," but rather "Does such a position exist at all, according to the Bible?"

Obviously it does, I contended. And that means that not just anyone can come up from the congregation and conduct a service of Holy Communion. We also have plenty of ordinary church history to back up this conclusion if there is any question about it from a reading of the New Testament.

However, it isn't an argument about which denomination does what. We all should realize that different church bodies do things differently from other ones. The Catholics have a Pope while Quakers, for instance, have no clergy at all and no sacraments to administer or distribute to anybody!

 

[Hazelelponi]

That's true for most husbands. So....?

So, that's the definition of lay person yes? Someone who is neither ordained or an elder (regardless of whether it was by choice or not).

And this is a huge question, what does qualified mean today?

I'm seriously considering stopping attendance even if churches open again... I don't know whether I even can trust those who so easily stopped following scripture to consider them anything resembling a church body. How are people who don't follow scripture qualified to call themselves ministers and elders?

Seems more a game they are playing at than a faith they believe in..

 

[Dave G.]

Acts 2.42 is likely to be practised until the Rapture, in one way or another. It's a line of doctrine and practice rather than a line of clerisy, as I see it.

Acts 2:46-47 nails it down further though. If you put the whole thing together in context from 42-47 you get an even clearer picture. Amen

 

[faroukfarouk]

So, that's the definition of lay person yes? Someone who is neither ordained or an elder (regardless of whether it was by choice or not).

And this is a huge question, what does qualified mean today?

I'm seriously considering stopping attendance even if churches open again... I don't know whether I even can trust those who so easily stopped following scripture to consider them anything resembling a church body. How are people who don't follow scripture qualified to call themselves ministers and elders?

Seems more a game they are playing at than a faith they believe in..

Acts 2.41-42 is a good basic guide for local church activities.

 

[timothyu]

I'm seriously considering stopping attendance even if churches open again...

And there you have it. Those in power, be it religion or government of man, fear losing the support of the masses. In this case people are going to find they can have a personal relationship with God and each other, eliminating the middleman.

Hierarchy builds upon itself. Man is never content. A tribe will follow an alpha inhabitant.Tribes will amalgamate for greater protection under a new level of leadership. Those constituencies become provinces and states and they in turn become countries and even empires. Not content with that level of power some seek a global government over all. The next step beyond global of course is to proclaim a level of government akin to God. Such is the way of man. God on the other hand sent a poor unassuming man who simply said don't rebel against these men who seek power and glory who have built a world in their own image, but instead treat each other as equals and love all as self.

What man does in government and religion goes against the principles of the Kingdom of God. In the Kingdom there is no gain at the expense of another. Gain is made at the expense of oneself. Christianity has adopted the same governance as the world of man. It rejected the Kingdom long ago when it went into partnership with a government of man and the governing hierarchies became of one mind, not of God but of the world..

 

[Paul4JC]

God's not looking at who gives the communion. He's looking at how I take it.

 

[Albion]

God's not looking at who gives the communion. He's looking at how I take it.

According to his own revelation, his word...he's actually doing both.

He's capable of that. And at the same time.

 

[Paul4JC]

According to his own revelation, his word...he's actually doing both.

He's capable of that. And at the same time.

Sure, but the giver is also the taker.

1Cor 11:28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.

 

[Albion]

Sure, but the giver is also the taker.

1Cor 11:28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.

That doesn't really settle the question posed by the title of this thread, however.

 

[Paul4JC]

That doesn't really settle the question posed by the title of this thread, however.

I understand. I'm just suggesting what's more important that's all.

 

[Albion]

I understand. I'm just suggesting what's more important that's all.

It sounded like you were saying there isn't any difference.

If your heart is right with God, whether you are officiating at the Eucharist (whatever might be one's preference for the name of the sacrament/ordinance), ...or simply receiving the host and chalice...it doesn't matter since the qualifications are nothing more than what's in your heart.

That's what thought I was reading.

 

[charsan]

The Catholics have a Pope while Quakers, for instance, have no clergy at all and no sacraments to administer or distribute to anybody!

Exactly. Those that believe the Holy Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ (The Real Presence) can not ever have a lay person preside. Since the evil state has closed the Churches we mus do without until they open or a Priest can bring us the Sacraments. I am quite fortunate because our Priest is bringing all of us the Holy Eucharist.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Are we not grappling with a more fundamental issue here.

Who brings the blessing, God or man?

Even under the old covenant, who brings the blessing, the High Priest or God?

Even more so when our High Priest is in heaven - who brings the blessing?

Take some bread and wine - who brings the blessing?

Have we not made the process man centric?

Have we not installed a priesthood in place of the One who sat with us and ate.

Ask the least among you to decide.