Can a just God be a dispensationalist?

[david shelby]

If dispensationalism is true, isn't God being a giant jerk? Because there is nothing objective in scripture showing the dispensations that dispensationalists believe in. You're just making them up as you go along. They're very arbitrary. So if your interpretation actually turns out to be true, wouldn't it just point to God being unjust?

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

"the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation"

If God gave up on man after one encounter we would all never have been born. Instead He decided to give Adam and Eve another chance.

 

[sawdust]

Is a parent a "giant jerk" when they make less demands on their 2yo than they do their 10yo? God has dealt with people according to the revelation given throughout history. In this age, now the fullness of God has been revealed in Christ, is it unreasonable for the Lord God to expect more?

 

[david shelby]

Is a parent a "giant jerk" when they make less demands on their 2yo than they do their 10yo?

But they make them clear I think. Dispensationalism is pure fiction, creating splits where they don't exist, except for those who believe in only two or three dispensations, i.e. Patriarchal, Old Testament, New Testament. Once you start claiming there's more than that, especially breaking the New Testament into different dispensations, its like an LSD trip, and its all arbitrary. And if God expects people to really find this stuff there and go to hell if they don't, then he would be massively unjust, yea even evil.

 

[sawdust]

But they make them clear I think. Dispensationalism is pure fiction, creating splits where they don't exist, except for those who believe in only two or three dispensations, i.e. Patriarchal, Old Testament, New Testament. Once you start claiming there's more than that, especially breaking the New Testament into different dispensations, its like an LSD trip, and its all arbitrary. And if God expects people to really find this stuff there and go to hell if they don't, then he would be massively unjust, yea even evil.

Just because people are nincompoops and make up all sorts of stuff doesn't mean God is a jerk or has in any way dealt unjustly with the human race.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

That verse alone should tell you that God has dealt differently with people in different times. People don't go to hell because their theology is insufficient. Stop grasping at straws and trying to blame God for your ignorance and go find yourself a decent pastor who teaches the scriptures. What God "expects" is in proportion to the revelation given.

 

[Dan Perez]

Just because people are nincompoops and make up all sorts of stuff doesn't mean God is a jerk or has in any way dealt unjustly with the human race.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

That verse alone should tell you that God has dealt differently with people in different times. People don't go to hell because their theology is insufficient. Stop grasping at straws and trying to blame God for your ignorance and go find yourself a decent pastor who teaches the scriptures. What God "expects" is in proportion to the revelation given.

Just because people are nincompoops and make up all sorts of stuff doesn't mean God is a jerk or has in any way dealt unjustly with the human race.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

That verse alone should tell you that God has dealt differently with people in different times. People don't go to hell because their theology is insufficient. Stop grasping at straws and trying to blame God for your ignorance and go find yourself a decent pastor who teaches the scriptures. What God "expects" is in proportion to the revelation given.

Hi and when researching the Greek word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , I only found 7 verses where it is found !!

#1 In Luke 16:2 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of context

#2 , Luke 16:3 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of conrext

#3 , Luke 16:4 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of context

#4 1 Cor 9:17 and translated DISPENSATION because of context

#5 Eph 1:10 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#6 Eph 3:2 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#7 Col 1:25 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#8 1 Tim 1:4 where is translated GODLY EDIFYING where the Greek word is OIKONOMIA

I believe that all other GAPS in the bible can safely be called NEAR VIEWS or called FAR VIEWS !!

I believe that DISPENSATIONALISM began in Eph 1:4 and in 1 Tim 1;9 as to TIME RELATED TO THE AGES !!

dan p

 

[sawdust]

Hi and when researching the Greek word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA , I only found 7 verses where it is found !!

#1 In Luke 16:2 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of context

#2 , Luke 16:3 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of conrext

#3 , Luke 16:4 and has to be translated STEWARDSHIP because of context

#4 1 Cor 9:17 and translated DISPENSATION because of context

#5 Eph 1:10 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#6 Eph 3:2 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#7 Col 1:25 translated DISPENSATION because of context

#8 1 Tim 1:4 where is translated GODLY EDIFYING where the Greek word is OIKONOMIA

I believe that all other GAPS in the bible can safely be called NEAR VIEWS or called FAR VIEWS !!

I believe that DISPENSATIONALISM began in Eph 1:4 and in 1 Tim 1;9 as to TIME RELATED TO THE AGES !!

dan p

That's nice.

I'm not interested in discussing the various views on Dispensation. The OP indicated Dispensations don't exist at all. I simply pointed out that is not the case.

 

[Justified112]

But they make them clear I think. Dispensationalism is pure fiction, creating splits where they don't exist, except for those who believe in only two or three dispensations, i.e. Patriarchal, Old Testament, New Testament. Once you start claiming there's more than that, especially breaking the New Testament into different dispensations, its like an LSD trip, and its all arbitrary. And if God expects people to really find this stuff there and go to hell if they don't, then he would be massively unjust, yea even evil.

Which demonstrates that you don't really understand Dispensationalism. None of it arbitrary.

 

[Biblewriter]

The scriptures clearly show a very distinct difference between how God related to mankind before and after the fall in the garden of Eden.

The scriptures clearly show a very distinct difference between how God related to mankind before and after the flood of Noah.

The scriptures clearly show a very distinct difference between how God related to mankind before and after God called Abraham.

The scriptures clearly show a very distinct difference between how God related to mankind before and after the law was given through Moses.

The scriptures clearly show a very distinct difference between how God related to mankind before and after the cross.

The scriptures clearly show a very clear difference between how God will relate to mankind before and after He comes in power and glory to judge the world for its wickedness.

All of these differences are very clearly stated in scripture. You can call these different periods anything you like. But you cannot deny that they are there, clearly stated in the Holy Scriptures.

But God himself has already answered your arrogant comment about His plans. For it was in regard to His future blessing of the ancient nation of Israel that He said:

20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Romans 9:18-24

 

[Yahkov]

Dispensationalism will have varying views. But it is more so a varying in the number of dispensations and not what the dispensations are. Which dispensation is being made up that you think God is being a jerk if it's true? I suppose delivering more specifics would greatly benefit the conversation. The original post is extremely vague and heavily accusatory.

 

[Yahkov]

But they make them clear I think. Dispensationalism is pure fiction, creating splits where they don't exist, except for those who believe in only two or three dispensations, i.e. Patriarchal, Old Testament, New Testament. Once you start claiming there's more than that, especially breaking the New Testament into different dispensations, its like an LSD trip, and its all arbitrary. And if God expects people to really find this stuff there and go to hell if they don't, then he would be massively unjust, yea even evil.

Well which is it? What do you mean 'except for those who believe in only two or three dispensations'? That's not a consistent view at all.

 

[Biblewriter]

I am not aware of even ONE Dispensationalist who has EVER made a claim that a beief in Dispensationalism was a requirement for salvation. So david shelby's implication that Dispensationalists think that "God expects people to really find this stuff there and go to hell if they don't," is completely incorrect.

 

[thomas15]

Try finding in the Bible a "covenant of redemption" between the Godhead.

 

[William Lefranc]

If dispensationalism is true, isn't God being a giant jerk? Because there is nothing objective in scripture showing the dispensations that dispensationalists believe in. You're just making them up as you go along. They're very arbitrary. So if your interpretation actually turns out to be true, wouldn't it just point to God being unjust?

Dispensationalism is false from the get-go because it separates what God has united in Christ. God has always had one people of faith in both the OT and the NT.

 

[Biblewriter]

Dispensationalism is false from the get-go because it separates what God has united in Christ. God has always had one people of faith in both the OT and the NT.
View attachment 262840

Actually, Dispensationalism is nothing but simply believing the explicitly stated promises God made, not only to Abraham, but to Isaac, to Jacob to the ancient nation of Israel, to the two sub-divisions of that ancient nation, Judah and Ephraim, to the twelve tribes of Israel, to the lands of Israel and Judea, to the city of Jerusalem, and to numerous specific individuals. All of these promises were explicitly made in plain words. And if God could righteously break even one of them, He could fully as righteously break the promises He made to us.

When anyone denies the future restoration of the ancient nation of Israel to her ancient homeland and to her God, they deny the ONLY basis for our own faith, which is the absolute reliability of God to keep every promise He ever made.

 

[thomas15]

When anyone denies the future restoration of the ancient nation of Israel to her ancient homeland and to her God, they deny the ONLY basis for our own faith, which is the absolute reliability of God to keep every promise He ever made.

Exactly right. And we know from reading Rev. ch 2&3 that the God that sees everything and even reads the deepest thoughts of the heart is able to discern the sins of the church, of which there are many.

And if I may add this. Rather large parts of the church have practiced, are practicing and show no inclination to stop practicing what the Bible would define as pagan idol worship, in complete and total disregard of number three (3) of the ten (10) commandments. This would pose a real problem if there is but just one (1) people of God from Genesis ch 2 to Revelation ch 22.

 

[William Lefranc]

Actually, Dispensationalism is nothing but simply believing the explicitly stated promises God made, not only to Abraham, but to Isaac, to Jacob to the ancient nation of Israel, to the two sub-divisions of that ancient nation, Judah and Ephraim, to the twelve tribes of Israel, to the lands of Israel and Judea, to the city of Jerusalem, and to numerous specific individuals. All of these promises were explicitly made in plain words. And if God could righteously break even one of them, He could fully as righteously break the promises He made to us.

When anyone denies the future restoration of the ancient nation of Israel to her ancient homeland and to her God, they deny the ONLY basis for our own faith, which is the absolute reliability of God to keep every promise He ever made.

Take the noun "dispensations" out and replace with covenants. God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not dispensations.

Israel was never chosen to look pretty and special. God chose them to be the means whereby the Savior of the world would be born. If Israel had accepted God's greatest blessing in Christ, they would have gone to receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life, but they not only rejected God's offer but killed the Son of God.

You are trying to resurrect a dead nation that God judged in AD 70. So, not only you are set against God's purposes, but you are also glorifying a corpse.

 

[thomas15]

Take the noun "dispensations" out and replace with covenants. God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not dispensations.

Sir you are making it too easy for us to defend dispensationalism.

Why you ask? Because those who claim the covenants given to the Patriarchs now belong to the church have very little if any respect for or desire to own (most of) the actual terms and conditions of the actual covenants.

 

[Biblewriter]

Take the noun "dispensations" out and replace with covenants. God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not dispensations.

Israel was never chosen to look pretty and special. God chose them to be the means whereby the Savior of the world would be born. If Israel had accepted God's greatest blessing in Christ, they would have gone to receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life, but they not only rejected God's offer but killed the Son of God.

You are trying to resurrect a dead nation that God judged in AD 70. So, not only you are set against God's purposes, but you are also glorifying a corpse.

You are denying a very large amount of explicitly stated scripture.

Our God repeatedly and explicitly promised to bring that guilty ancient nation back to her homeland and to restore them to faith in Himself. Many of these promises were made in words that could not even rationally be interpreted to mean anything but the physical descendants of that guilty ancient nation. Most of these promises were made AT THE TIME God was announcing their soon coming punishment for their many crimes. He basically said, again and again, I am going to drive out of your land because of what you have done, but in a future time I will bring you back. And He even went so far as to stress that He meant absolutely all of them, and also went so far as to precisely define the borders the land will have in that day, and how it will be divided among the twelve tribes.

And not all of these promises of a future restoration of Israel were made in the Old Testament.

 

[William Lefranc]

You are denying a very large amount of explicitly stated scripture.

Our God repeatedly and explicitly promised to bring that guilty ancient nation back to her homeland and to restore them to faith in Himself. Many of these promises were made in words that could not even rationally be interpreted to mean anything but the physical descendants of that guilty ancient nation. Most of these promises were made AT THE TIME God was announcing their soon coming punishment for their many crimes. He basically said, again and again, I am going to drive out of your land because of what you have done, but in a future time I will bring you back. And He even went so far as to stress that He meant absolutely all of them, and also went so far as to precisely define the borders the land will have in that day, and how it will be divided among the twelve tribes.

And not all of these promises of a future restoration of Israel were made in the Old Testament.

There are no promises to national Israel to return to the land in the NT. The promises are only judgment. After all, you don't think God would continue to work with a nation that killed their own Messiah and went on to persecute God's people (Jewish believers in Christ) to the death, don't you?

The truth is that Jesus is God's last word to Israel. Those who believed in Him, left national Israel's Judaism to become a new creation in Christ. Thousands upon thousands of Jews were born again at the preaching of the gospel while Jerusalem was burned to the ground for having committed the unthinkable crime.

God's people are and will always be those who have His Spirit (Ro. 8:9). Today, we have a secular, ungodly and Christ-hater nation in the Middle East. Don't you think people like you are working against God's purposes by elevating a secular nation that God judged 2,000 years ago?