Can a Christian support pro-choice? Poll

[SolomonVII]

You are quite correct. I would rank Marxism right up there with Capitalism.

Post-modernist moral equivalence means that there is no way to discern what is better and what is worse.
In terms of sheet numbers of murders and starvation and death and torture, even the evil of thefascism of Hitler pales in comparison that Marxism has wrought upon the earth.

And you say that capitalism( the system of countries from America and Canada to Australia to Sweden) is just as bad as that?!!!

Why should anyone take you seriously?

 

[SolomonVII]

The Christian perspective on this isn’t that simple.

It also not inane enough to advocate killing people in order to send them to "meet their Maker".

 

[tulc]

It also not inane enough to advocate killing people in order to send them to "meet their Maker".

uhmmm...technically they never left their maker. So really, in this discussion, no one got sent anywhere.
tulc(isn't sure why more people don't remember what the implication of Gods foreknowledge in these discussions would mean)

 

[JackRT]

Post-modernist moral equivalence means that there is no way to discern what is better and what is worse.
In terms of sheet numbers of murders and starvation and death and torture, even the evil of thefascism of Hitler pales in comparison that Marxism has wrought upon the earth.

And you say that capitalism( the system of countries from America and Canada to Australia to Sweden) is just as bad as that?!!!

Why should anyone take you seriously?

Both Marxism and Capitalism carried to extremes have proven themselves capable of great evil. That is why the successful western democracies, such as the ones you named, have sought to mitigate the excesses of Capitalism through regulation and social legislation.

 

[Tom 1]

uhmmm...technically they never left their maker. So really, in this discussion, no one got sent anywhere.
tulc(isn't sure why more people don't remember what the implication of Gods foreknowledge in these discussions would mean)

Bit speculative

 

[tulc]

Bit speculative

no more so then the idea of a huge crowd of aborted souls in Heaven starring balefully at everyone around them because they never got born?
tulc(is just pointing out something others may not have considered)

 

[Tom 1]

no more so then the idea of a huge crowd of aborted souls in Heaven starring balefully at everyone around them because they never got born?
tulc(is just pointing out something others may not have considered)

I don’t think there’s a way of knowing how that works. The more immediate questions are about what to make of a society that thinks killing it’s most defenceless members for convenience is ok? The majority of abortions are carried out when the person in question is more than just ‘a bunch of cells’ (to quote someone else’s post). Even then, that bunch of cells is a growing person. Maybe they do, and I just haven’t come across it, but pro-choicers don’t appear to feel that the unborn child has a right to life, or any other right other than to be flushed down the garbage disposal or not at someone else’s whim.

 

[SolomonVII]

Both Marxism and Capitalism carried to extremes have proven themselves capable of great evil. That is why the successful western democracies, such as the ones you named, have sought to mitigate the excesses of Capitalism through regulation and social legislation.

The capitalist systems that I have named include the capitalist norms in the world today.

On the other side of the ledger are all the Marxist regimes, which have all been murderous, tortuous, economic failures, bastions against freedom, family and individual rights.
USSR, China, North Vietnam, Pol Pot Cambodia, North Korea- these are not the extremes of Marxism-these are the norm. Now include Venezuela to the list.

On the other side of the ledger, Sweden, America, Canada, Australia, Japan, these are not the extremes of capitalism. These are the norm.
Anyone making moral equivalence between the norms of capitalism and the norms of Marxism, SERIOUSLY, needs to have their moral compasses adjusted.

 

[tulc]

I don’t think there’s a way of knowing how that works. (snip)

So the only people who can speculate/discuss this (since you yourself said there's no way of knowing) are the people who agree with you?
tulc(isn't looking for a fight, just clarification)

 

[SolomonVII]

I don’t think there’s a way of knowing how that works. The more immediate questions are about what to make of a society that thinks killing it’s most defenceless members for convenience is ok? The majority of abortions are carried out when the person in question is more than just ‘a bunch of cells’ (to quote someone else’s post). Even then, that bunch of cells is a growing person. Maybe they do, and I just haven’t come across it, but pro-choicers don’t appear to feel that the unborn child has a right to life, or any other right other than to be flushed down the garbage disposal or not at someone else’s whim.

Those of us in Canada know how extremist the feminist abortion in lobby is through the case of the baby born with a bullet in his head that his mother put there whilst he was entering the birth canal.
The pro-abortion feminist lobby were all okay with that.

and now in America, the most moderate of laws that will limit abortion to exclude the time when the fetus is viable outside of the womb and the time to where the fetus does not feel pain are voted down by the pro-choice lobby there.

There is not Christian, or even humane, about pro-choice. It is waging war against human life itself.

 

[Tom 1]

So the only people who can speculate/discuss this (since you yourself said there's no way of knowing) are the people who agree with you?
tulc(isn't looking for a fight, just clarification)

No, why do you think that’s what I’m saying? You can say whatever you like, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know, i.e whatever I say about that, or you, or anyone else, it’s just speculative, whereas the actual realities of abortion aren’t.

 

[tulc]

No, why do you think that’s what I’m saying? You can say whatever you like, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know, i.e whatever I say about that, or you, or anyone else, it’s just speculative, whereas the actual realities of abortion aren’t.

Which was the point of my post. It's all speculation, so when some one says:

It also not inane enough to advocate killing people in order to send them to "meet their Maker".

and I point out "since no one was ever born no one was ever actually sent anywhere." My opinion is just as right as that rather obvious attempt to make Christians who don't agree with a certain opinion out to be not only wrong but kind of a monster for not holding that same opinion.
tulc(would also suggest "the actual realities of abortion" aren't really as cut and dry as some people would like to think they are)

 

[Tom 1]

Which was the point of my post. It's all speculation, so when some one says:

and I point out "since no one was ever born no one was ever actually sent anywhere." My opinion is just as right as that rather obvious attempt to make Christians who don't agree with a certain opinion out to be not only wrong but kind of a monster for not holding that same opinion.
tulc(would also suggest "the actual realities of abortion" aren't really as cut and dry as some people would like to think they are)

Sure I agree that speculations on matters of the soul are open to a wide range of opinion. What I don’t think is a matter of opinion, but rather a statement of fact, is that abortion involves the physical termination of a person’s life. What happens with that person’s soul once their body has been killed and disposed of is an unknown, in any specific way that is, and not the most immediately important question. That would be, in my view, in what way can it be considered ok to terminate the life of a completely defenceless child? If you take a look at some of the more graphic images of aborted children we aren’t talking about ‘a bunch of cells’ here but fully formed, tiny human beings

 

[tulc]

Sure I agree that speculations on matters of the soul are open to a wide range of opinion. (snip)

which was the point of my post. If it's speculation then people shouldn't try and use it to manipulate other people with this sort of "speculation":

I can't imagine any person professing Christianity can support pro-choice. I can imagine religious hypocrites posing as Christian who will, but they will get a rude shock when they find themselves at the Judgment when they are confronted with millions of aborted babies saying, "Why have you done this to us, and not given us a chance at life?"

which was what my post was about.
tulc(is going to need more coffee soon)

 

[Tom 1]

which was the point of my post. If it's speculation then people shouldn't try and use it to manipulate other people with this sort of "speculation":

which was what my post was about.
tulc(is going to need more coffee soon)

Ok, right, I didn’t link your post to the earlier post.

 

[tulc]

Ok, right, I didn’t link your post to the earlier post.

Not a problem!
tulc(is always happy to explain as well as listen, so as to understand things)

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread will remain closed.
It is flaming under CF rules to suggest that other Christian members are not Christians.
MOD HAT OFF​