Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

[Bible Highlighter]

Now there is something we can agree on!

It is abundtely clear that "IF WE SAY" introduces the protasis of a general condition used as the premise of a syllogism; the 1st negative conclusion (vs 6) is WE LIE.

It is therefore obvious that if there are false teachers or any others who claim to have fellowship with God and at the same time continue to live according to the standards of darkness only, then the only conclusion is that they are LYING!

Walking of course is LIVING. He is dealing with a real situation where some people are claiming to have fellowship wit God but are living in known sin.

The problem with YOUR theology is exactly what YOU just said. .............
"blood of Jesus Christ is not good enough to cover willful sin or evil".

If you fail to understand the Bible teaching of the blood of Jesus you will completely miss the doctrine of salvation and that is exactly what has happened to you.

First of all, the blood of Jesus does NOT COVER SIN my friend. The blood washes away sin.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

No. Walking in the light is not living. Walking in the light is keeping God's commandments.

1 John 1:6 says the same thing as 1 John 2:4.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
(1 John 1:6).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:4).

#1. we have fellowship (1:6) = I know him (2:4).
#2. walk in darkness (1:6) = keepeth not his commandments (2:4).
#3. lie and do not the truth (1:6) = is a liar and the truth is not in him (2:4).

Proverbs 6:23 says,
"For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:"

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Eternal life is a person? What are you talking about? Eternal life is the gift God gave to those that have accepted Christ as savior and Lord.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You can do nothing to get salvation (works)and nothing to keep it(works).
It is a gift of God . God is not an Indian giver.( no disrespect to native Americans this is just a discriptive)

"...by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).

 

[Neogaia777]

Again, what about being "repentant" in/of a sin...? My cigarette smoking, is a willful (well, maybe, that might be debatable too?) Anyway, for the most part, is a willful, deliberate sin, (or at least started out that way, now, I'm addicted and have an addiction problem, some people have naturally addictive personalities, some do not...)

Anyway, I talk with God about regularly about it, trying to not make excuses, or justify it, but apologize and be very apologetic with him about it, and be "repentant" about it, sometimes on a daily basis in my life...

Sometimes I wonder if that is the thorn in my side, that, for some reason, I'm supposed to be in sin, "right now" anyway, and I'm wondering why...?

God Bless!

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

I’ve “NEVER” in all my 30 years of study heared anyone say that. In apologetics , theology or any other belief.
Can I ask you what faith you are? Jason

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Again, what about being "repentant" in/of a sin...? My cigarette smoking, is a willful (well, maybe, that might be debatable too?) Anyway, for the most part, is a willful, deliberate sin, (or at least started out that way, now, I'm addicted and have an addiction problem, some people have naturally addictive personalities, some do not...)


Anyway, I talk with God about regularly about it, trying to not make excuses, or justify it, but apologize and be very apologetic with him about it, and be "repentant" about it, sometimes on a daily basis in my life...

Sometimes I wonder if that is the thorn in my side, that, for some reason, I'm supposed to be in

Pray without ceasing , smoking is a tough habit to quit. Quit over time . I will pray for you

 

[Neogaia777]

Pray without ceasing , smoking is a tough habit to quit. Quit over time . I will pray for you

Thank You...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now there is something we can agree on!

It is abundtely clear that "IF WE SAY" introduces the protasis of a general condition used as the premise of a syllogism; the 1st negative conclusion (vs 6) is WE LIE.

It is therefore obvious that if there are false teachers or any others who claim to have fellowship with God and at the same time continue to live according to the standards of darkness only, then the only conclusion is that they are LYING!

Walking of course is LIVING. He is dealing with a real situation where some people are claiming to have fellowship wit God but are living in known sin.

The problem with YOUR theology is exactly what YOU just said. .............
"blood of Jesus Christ is not good enough to cover willful sin or evil".

If you fail to understand the Bible teaching of the blood of Jesus you will completely miss the doctrine of salvation and that is exactly what has happened to you.

First of all, the blood of Jesus does NOT COVER SIN my friend. The blood washes away sin.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

My mistake. I was getting the wording from 1 Peter 4:8 mixed in there (i.e. love covers a multitude of sins). I have now corrected my post to say that the blood washes away sin.

Anyways, I still a contradiction in your belief. You say that a person will not live in sin otherwise they are not saved if they do that, yet on the other hand you say that if a believer backslides, they are still saved. This to me is not consistent in regards to God's standard of goodness and or holiness.

As for walking in the light:
Again, 1 John 1:6 is a parallel of 1 John 2:4.
Walking in the light = Keeping God's commandments.

 

[Major1]

My mistake. I was getting the wording from 1 Peter 4:8 mixed in there (i.e. love covers a multitude of sins). I have now corrected my post to say that the blood washes away sin.

Anyways, I still a contradiction in your belief. You say that a person will not live in sin otherwise they are not saved if they do that, yet on the other hand you say that if a believer backslides, they are still saved. This to me is not consistent in regards to God's standard of goodness and or holiness.

As for walking in the light:
Again, 1 John 1:6 is a parallel of 1 John 2:4.
Walking in the light = Keeping God's commandments.

You said in post #233.............
But yes. The blood of Jesus Christ is not good enough to cover willful sin or evil.

That comment IMO shows me that you do NOT have the theological ability to be making comments on the salvation of God.

 

[Major1]

No. Walking in the light is not living. Walking in the light is keeping God's commandments.

1 John 1:6 says the same thing as 1 John 2:4.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
(1 John 1:6).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:4).

#1. we have fellowship (1:6) = I know him (2:4).
#2. walk in darkness (1:6) = keepeth not his commandments (2:4).
#3. lie and do not the truth (1:6) = is a liar and the truth is not in him (2:4).

Proverbs 6:23 says,
"For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:"

Incorrect!........AGAIN!

The CLEANSING of the blood depends upon our walking in the light.

IT DOES NOT depend on obeying the commands of God.
The important thing is where we walk not HOW we walk.

 

[Major1]

The teaching of the knowledge of the things of God comes from the Holy Spirit (See 1 John 2:27).
As for the blood of Jesus: Yes, it is true. God is good and holy. He cannot agree with sin to wash away willful sin and evil done against Him unless one repents (asks for forgiveness and forsakes their sin). For is a husband who cheats on his wife truly sorry if he just pays lip service in saying he is sorry to her and yet he does not change his unfaithful ways? Surely not. Those who truly show love to the one they are faithful to, will do more than say words or believe, they will follow it up by their actions.

Not sure what part of 1 John 1:7 you do not understand. It is very clear. If you walk in the light as he [Christ] is in the light .... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).​

Walking in the light is the same as keeping God's commandments.

Compare 1 John 1:6-7 with 1 John 2:3-4.

Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

Do you believe these words of Jesus?

Yes I certainly believe the Word of God.

But unfortunately YOU do not understand the Word of God.

Honestly Jason, I can not believe that I am having to explain this Biblically elementary subject to you.

In the New Testament, “walking in the light” is directly related to following Jesus, who said, in John 8:12..........
“I am the light of the world. He who follows me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life”.

While this verse does not directly say, “Walk in the light, i.e., Jesus,” it does pointedly warn of doing the opposite; therefore, those who follow Jesus are “walking in the light.”

To “walk” is, in short, to live one’s life. One’s lifestyle or way of life can be considered a “walk.” The word also indicates progress. Walking is related to growth; it is taking steps toward maturity. “Light” in the Bible can be a metaphor for life, happiness, righteousness, or understanding.

The Bible is clear that light comes from the Lord God in James 1:17..........
the “Father of the heavenly lights”.

He is the opposite of evil. Putting it all together, “walking in the light” means “growing in holiness and maturing in the faith as we follow Jesus.” It does NOT MEAN TO OBEY ANYTHING!

The apostle John repeatedly used the “light” metaphor in relation to the Messiah.
For example, he writes that Jesus is “the true light that gives light to every man” in John 1:9.

In 1 John 1:7 he says...........
“If we walk in the light as He [God] is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

In verse 5, John says that God’s very nature is light. Jesus, then, is the conduit or provider of light to the world.

Our Christian duty is to live in the light God gives:
Ephesias 5:8............
“Now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light”.

When we walk in the light, we cannot walk in darkness. Sin is left in the shadows as we let our light “shine before men” (Matthew 5:16).

It is God’s plan for us to become more like Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

“Walking in the light” means we consider Jesus as “the light” in this world, and we “walk” in that light by following His precepts, living in His power, and growing in His grace.

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

In KJV:
From Hebrews 10:19-39
It is speaking of The Full Assurance of Faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You said in post #233.............
But yes. The blood of Jesus Christ is not good enough to cover willful sin or evil.

Oh, great. Thanks. You discovered another typo. I corrected it.

That comment IMO shows me that you do have the theological ability to be making comments on the salvation of God.

No. It's called, I got the wording mixed up from another verse. I do not believe and never had believed the Jesus's blood covers sin. So you can throw that false idea of yours against me into the trash can and lay it to rest already. For have you never typed something before that was not what you intended to say by accident?

 

[Major1]

Oh, great. Thanks. You discovered another typo. I corrected it.



No. It's called, I got the wording mixed up from another verse. I do not believe and never had believed the Jesus's blood covers sin. So you can throw that false idea of yours against me into the trash can and lay it to rest already. For have you never typed something before that was not what you intended to say by accident?

I agree with your thought of ....."TO COVER SIN".

I understand. My focus and thought however is for the words you said just before those words......."The blood of JESUS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.............".

That was NOT a typo my friend. That comes from your heart and tells me what you actually think. The answer is NO. I would never, ever consider the thought, "The blood of Jesus IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

The blood of Jesus Christ is explosive! It is dynamite! Compared to the precious blood of Jesus Christ, the most valuable things of this earth like silver and gold are reduced to meaningless, perishable things. That is because the blood of Jesus gives Christians salvation of their souls, forgiveness from sins, access to God, victory over the enemy, and the power to live with a clear conscience, something that the gold and silver items in the Old Testament temple could never do.

It is unfathomable to me to think much less write down the words.....
"The blood of Jesus is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.........."!!!!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Incorrect!........AGAIN!

The CLEANSING of the blood depends upon our walking in the light.

IT DOES NOT depend on obeying the commands of God.
The important thing is where we walk not HOW we walk.

No. You are wrong, dear sir.

1 John 1:6 is a parallel of 1 John 2:4 because it uses nearly identical language.
However, lets just say that such is not the case, Proverbs 6:23 clearly says,

"For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:" (Proverbs 6:23).

The commandment is a lamp, and the law is light. Hmmm. Reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

Still not enough?

Hopefully the following passage is clear enough for you.

6 "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." (Ephesians 5:6-13).

Please take note that the context of "children of disobedience" in verse 6 (Which is an advertence to darkness in verse 8) is in reference to sin according to Ephesians 5:3-5; For it says,

3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Ephesians 5:3-5).

So disobedience to God's commands is darkness. Obedience to God's commands is light.

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Jason, I Personally don’t like the fact that you move in and out of different translations to fit the word what you want it to say.
NIV and any other translation other than the KJV IMO waters the word down and has corruptible language . Removes a lot of wording that can cause people to stumble. And if that’s going to turn into an argument we can cross swords with that too.
Edit: if there are references in my posts that refer back to a non KJV it was not my intent and by mistake.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes I certainly believe the Word of God.

I also believe the Word of God.

But unfortunately YOU do not understand the Word of God.

This is just an ad hominem it is not a part of the thread discussion.

Honestly Jason, I can not believe that I am having to explain this Biblically elementary subject to you.

I can say the same to you, but it would not be nice or respectful to say such a thing. Stick to the discussion of the Scriptures and refrain from personal opinions that seek to insult me in some way. Thank you.

In the New Testament, “walking in the light” is directly related to following Jesus, who said, in John 8:12..........
“I am the light of the world. He who follows me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life”.

While this verse does not directly say, “Walk in the light, i.e., Jesus,” it does pointedly warn of doing the opposite; therefore, those who follow Jesus are “walking in the light.”

So how does one follow Jesus? They naturally would obey His commandments.
For how can one say they are following Jesus and yet they are also disobeying His commandments?
That wouldn't make any sense.

To “walk” is, in short, to live one’s life. One’s lifestyle or way of life can be considered a “walk.” The word also indicates progress. Walking is related to growth; it is taking steps toward maturity. “Light” in the Bible can be a metaphor for life, happiness, righteousness, or understanding.

Light in 1 John 1:7 is in reference to keeping God's commandments.
We see this in Ephesians 5 and Proverbs 6.

The Bible is clear that light comes from the Lord God in James 1:17..........
the “Father of the heavenly lights”.

Yes, this is true. We allow God to do His good works through us.

He is the opposite of evil. Putting it all together, “walking in the light” means “growing in holiness and maturing in the faith as we follow Jesus.” It does NOT MEAN TO OBEY ANYTHING!

Yes, it does. We are surrendering to GOD and allowing His light (His will) to shine within our lives.

The apostle John repeatedly used the “light” metaphor in relation to the Messiah.
For example, he writes that Jesus is “the true light that gives light to every man” in John 1:9.

Yes, Jesus is God; And God (Jesus) is that light.
We allow all three persons of the Trinity to do the good work through us (Which would include Jesus).

In 1 John 1:7 he says...........
“If we walk in the light as He [God] is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

Right, which is what I was saying here. Christ is in the light amongst the Godhead or the Trinity and yet He is also that light Himself, as well. We are to walk in the light of Christ, which naturally is talking about fruit bearing.

Jesus says in John 15:1-5,
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

So abiding in Christ one will bear much fruit. Fruits are deeds.

"Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: (Matthew 3:8).

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts of the Apostles 26:20).

So when we walk in the light of Christ, we are abiding in Him and allowing Him to do the good work through us. This means we are obeying God's commands by surrendering our life to Jesus.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

In verse 5, John says that God’s very nature is light. Jesus, then, is the conduit or provider of light to the world.

Our Christian duty is to live in the light God gives:
Ephesias 5:8............
“Now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light”.

When we walk in the light, we cannot walk in darkness. Sin is left in the shadows as we let our light “shine before men” (Matthew 5:16).

It is God’s plan for us to become more like Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

“Walking in the light” means we consider Jesus as “the light” in this world, and we “walk” in that light by following His precepts, living in His power, and growing in His grace.

You just quoted the verses I had in mind for you. Anyways, I agree that God's very nature is light. So we are to be conduits for God. I agree. This would be obedience to God's commands because we are a conduit for God. God wants to work through us to do His will. God is holy and good and He wants us to obey His commands. So obviously God will help us to obey His Word (i.e. the commands in the New Testament).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, I Personally don’t like the fact that you move in and out of different translations to fit the word what you want it to say.
NIV and any other translation other than the KJV IMO waters the word down and has corruptible language . Removes a lot of wording that can cause people to stumble. And if that’s going to turn into an argument we can cross swords with that too.

You have nothing to worry about, my friend. I am technically a KJV-only believer. For I believe the KJV is perfect and without error. I only use Modern Translations to help clarify what the KJV is saying.

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

And Jason we have come to an agreement then. That the KJV of the Bible is the perfect and inspired word of God.(without error).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree with your thought of ....."TO COVER SIN".

I understand. My focus and thought however is for the words you said just before those words......."The blood of JESUS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.............".

That was NOT a typo my friend. That comes from your heart and tells me what you actually think. The answer is NO. I would never, ever consider the thought, "The blood of Jesus IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

The blood of Jesus Christ is explosive! It is dynamite! Compared to the precious blood of Jesus Christ, the most valuable things of this earth like silver and gold are reduced to meaningless, perishable things. That is because the blood of Jesus gives Christians salvation of their souls, forgiveness from sins, access to God, victory over the enemy, and the power to live with a clear conscience, something that the gold and silver items in the Old Testament temple could never do.

It is unfathomable to me to think much less write down the words.....
"The blood of Jesus is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.........."!!!!!

Are you God to know my heart and thoughts of what I wrote during that time? Surely not. I think I know my mind, heart, thoughts better than you do. For please take note that I NEVER believed that Jesus covered sin. I simply made a mistake in using the wrong words. Plain and simple. You may want to make a mountain out of nothing, but that is your choice. It was a typo or a mistake and not what I actually believed. So you can huff and puff about how I believed something I never believed, but it would not really serve a purpose to prove that you are correct on this topic in any way. For I believe Jesus washes away our sins with his blood. I have ALWAYS believed this. So you can continue to make false claims against me if you like, but it would not be nice.

Anyways, the difference between us is that you believe Jesus washed away all present and future sin. Whereas I believe Jesus washes away all past sin only (through repentance / confession / and a continual keeping of his commandments).

As for your objection to my statement "The blood of Jesus is not good enough":

Do you believe the blood of Jesus is good enough to save even unbelievers who reject Him? I would say... "no." The blood is not good enough for them because it does not apply to them. That is what I am getting at here. The blood of Jesus is only sufficient for faithful believers and it is not sufficient for unbelievers (who reject Him) or believers who want to justify sin and evil on some level.