Calvinist limited love for mankind

Mark Quayle

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The Context of 1st John
(From Within the Epistle Itself):


What does John mean by “death?”

It is unlikely John means the physical death common to all humankind, whether righteous or unrighteous. With the exception of the final generation when Jesus returns, all humans will inevitably die. In the only other occurrence of "death" in the epistle (1 John 3:14) John claims true believers have already "passed over out of (ek) death into (eis) life." Those who do not love the brethren are already "abiding in death" (note the Greek present tense – an ongoing state of abiding “in death”). In the Greek clause both “life” and “death” have the definite article; that is, “the life” and “the death.” John is referring to two different spheres or realms: one of life and one of death.

Elsewhere in 1 John we read that those who love the saints “abide in the light” (1 John 2:10), are “born of God (1 John 4:7) and God abides in them (1 John 4:12). In comparison those who hate their brothers and sisters “are in darkness until now” (1 John 2:9), “walk in the darkness” (1 John 2:11) and “do not know God” (1 John 4:8). John is contrasting two different spheres, one characterized by light and life, the other by darkness and death. What determines in which realm one lives is one’s relationship to God and the community of faith. 1 John 3:14 is parallel to John 5:24 ("he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed over out of the death into the life”) where the exact same terminology is found.

John uses terms like “life,” “death,” “light” and “darkness” metaphorically to contrast two different manners of living; two different kinds of character. Those who love God and His children already live in light and life. Those who do not even now dwell in the realms of darkness and death. Nothing is said of whether one can change the “realm” in which one lives.

What does John mean by “ask for life” in 1 John 5:16?

In 1 John “everlasting life” is what God has promised to true believers (1 John 2:25). Who are these true believers? Those who love God and the brethren have already passed over from the realm of death to that of life (1 John 3:14). God has given those who love Him life that is found only in His Son (1 John 5:11) and those who believe in the name of the Son already have “everlasting life” (1 John 5:13). Indeed, God sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might have life even now (1 John 4:9). When John speaks of life he does not mean the mortal existence all humans have between birth and death, but the “everlasting life” from God that is found only in the Son, a life we can possess and experience in some sense now, though its fullness awaits the Age to Come.

In comparison the one who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15) and the one who does not have the Son already lacks life (1 John 5:12). Though one continues to exist, one does not in any sense possess the everlasting life of the Age to Come. Those who have the Son and love the brethren already have “life” (1 John 2:25)(1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13).

John’s epistle begins with the thematic statement about the “Word of life” (1 John 1:1-3), the life of the Father manifested in the historical person of Jesus Christ and now proclaimed as the message of “everlasting life.” In this epistle the term “life” is a way to sum up what God has done for believers including “being in the light” (1 John 1:5), the forgiveness of sins (1 John 1:9-2:2) (1 John 4:10), the granting of everlasting life (1 John 1:2) (1 John 2:25) (1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13) (1 John 5:20), fellowship with one another (1 John 1:7), an anointing (1 John 2:20), love from the Father (1 John 3:1), the status of “children of God” (1 John 3:1-2) (1 John 3:10) (1 John 5:2), the hope of becoming like Him (1 John 3:2-3), the gift of the Spirit (1 John 3:24) (1 John 4:13), being “born of God” (1 John 5:1), and our victory over the world (1 John 5:4-5). John summarizes his message with the statement, “and this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son”. Compare 1 John 5:11 with 1 John 5:20.

Historical & Literary Context:

John was writing to a congregation (or possibly several small ones) experiencing turmoil caused by doctrinal disputes with former members (hereafter referred to as ‘secessionists’), individuals who had left the church and were teaching heretical doctrines (1 John 2:18-28) (1 John 4:1-6) (1 John 5:6-7). This problem went beyond discouraged or disgruntled individuals who had simply left the church. Some of them were attempting to propagate their false teachings to those still in the assembly (1 John 2:26) (1 John 4:1-3) (2 John 1:7), raising the possibility that some members of John’s congregations would be deceived and also leave the assembly.

In his opening section John lays out the main claims of the secessionists. They claimed to have “fellowship with Jesus” and to walk with Him (1 John 1:6), “to have no sin” (1 John 1:8), and that they “have not sinned” (1 John 1:10). In the same passage John provides some of the details of the controversies in play. To their claim of “fellowship with Jesus” John responds that those walking with Him “love one another” and Jesus' blood “is cleansing us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). By implication the secessionists were failing to love the brethren. As to having no sin, John points out the necessity of confessing sin and thereby receiving forgiveness (1 John 1:9). And as to the assertion they “have not sinned,” John cites this as evidence that His word is not in them (1 John 1:10).

The secessionists boasted that they have come “to know Him” (1 John 2:4). John refutes this with the charge they are “not keeping His commandments,” the logic being that if you know Him you will keep his commandments. They boasted that they are “abiding in him (1 John 2:6). If so, John retorts, they should be “walking in the same manner” as did Jesus. The secessionists emphasized that they are “in the light” yet, as John points out, they hate their brothers and sisters (1 John 2:9). When John speaks of “commandments” he is not thinking of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law, but of God’s commands to love Him, believe in His Son and to love one another. In other words, the community of faith (1 John 3:23) (1 John 4:21) (1 John 5:2-3). Likewise “walking in the manner Jesus walked” refers above all to following his example of self-sacrificial love for one’s brothers and sisters (1 John 3:16).

Source:
Gospeltoallnations.org
(Please take note that this link is no longer active; But it was active at one time).
I fail to see how this whole long post is any proof that the "sin unto death" is necessarily what you take it to be, nor how MacAthur is wrong about suicide. Note 1 Corinthians 3:15 "14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. 16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?…"

There is a lot more here, I think, than your simplistic take. In the end, GOD is the judge. I leave it to him. He can (and will) do as he pleases with his creation.
 
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Mark Quayle

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John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”
What is your problem with this? If a person is indeed saved, is there any indication in scripture that suicide will tear him from the grasp of God? What God has begun, he will complete.
 
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Abiding in unconfessed mortal sin for any amount of time for a believer means that they are abiding in spiritual death and not life. The believer needs to confess of their sin to be forgiven again (1 John 1:9). I know. You don't like that verse so you have changed it by believing you are a Kione Greek expert (When nobody alive speaks or writes that language anymore). A believer also needs to forsake their sin, as well. For the believer cannot think that they can just sin again as if it is inevitable. Proverbs 28:13 basically says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. 1 John 1:7 supports this idea. It says if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
What do you mean by "Mortal Sin"? Scripture to support what you mean, too, please.
 
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I fail to see how this whole long post is any proof that the "sin unto death" is necessarily what you take it to be,

Well, you need to carefully read it in order to see what it is saying. It is after all the context of what John was talking about.

You said:
nor how MacAthur is wrong about suicide.

Because he does not believe 1 John 3:15 in what it plainly says and that it applies to the believer today. Neither do you. Granted, I would love for you to change your mind (of course).

You said:
Note 1 Corinthians 3:15 "14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. 16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?…"

There is a lot more here, I think, than your simplistic take. In the end, GOD is the judge. I leave it to him. He can (and will) do as he pleases with his creation.

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostle, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
 
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Mark Quayle

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Mark, you did not grow up speaking and writing Kione Greek. Nobody in recent history has. Only Scholars who have written books are guessing as to what this language is saying hindsight. They do not have a time machine to confirm what they are saying is true. You did not grow up in Bible times to truly know the nuances of that language. So do not pretend like you know a dead language when nobody today truly does.

I don't claim to. What is your beef? I do know quite a bit about how language works, and see a huge variety in meaning. No language perfectly translates into another except perhaps in certain phrases.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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What is your problem with this? If a person is indeed saved, is there any indication in scripture that suicide will tear him from the grasp of God? What God has begun, he will complete.
Romans 8- nothing can separate us from Him, but some think Paul is wrong below !

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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What do you mean by "Mortal Sin"? Scripture to support what you mean, too, please.

Mortal sin is any sin that the Bible specifically mentions with warnings of hellfire and condemnation if one were to commit such sin without confessing and forsaking such sins. It's the breaking of any of God's commands today (that apply under the New Covenant) that are attached with warnings of hellfire or condemnation. Note: I do not believe the whole of the 613 laws of Moses is applicable as a whole or package deal. Sure, certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant or New Testament, but as a whole the Old Law is no more because the Old Covenant has ended with Christ's death upon the cross. So we do not have to keep things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumision, dietary laws, holy days, etc.; We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 
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I don't claim to. What is your beef? I do know quite a bit about how language works, and see a huge variety in meaning. No language perfectly translates into another except perhaps in certain phrases.

I believe God preserved His Word for us today by divine intervention. God used the translators of the KJB who were imperfect men to accomplish his goal and purpose in preserving His promise in Psalms 12:6-7 (Which is a promise that is removed or nuetered like a cat in many Modern Translations). Do I have proof the KJB is divine and perfect? Oh yeah. Yes, I do. Just check out my blogger article here on the many evidences that back up God's Word.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

Side Note: Please keep in mind that some of the evidences are general evidences for the Word of God and not exclusive to the KJB. I would also encourage you to check out the 30 reasons why I believe the KJB is the pure Word of God for today, as well.

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today
 
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Mark Quayle

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Mark. James says God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. Do you honestly believe that the poor guy on the street is going to know what you know? Sorry, I am not buying it. The rich fat scholar is not the poor guy that is rich in faith. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. Mark. Your not hearing the Word of God, but your hearing what scholars say what they think the Word of God says. I just read and believe my Bible simply and plainly. Your not doing that. Sorry.
It may then, surprise you to learn that I came to what I believe before I found out that it was essentially the same as Reformed Theology. I don't claim to be a scholar, though I do study, and have studied for years, on my own, with tears of frustration and pleas for wisdom and understanding over the fact that the theology of my youth did not answer the real questions nor produce the Godliness I craved. I don't claim to have achieved that wisdom and understanding, and I know I still have a long way to go, and no doubt always will. But Reformed Theology (Calvinism) has answered many of my questions and has further given me assurance that I am not the only one who has the satisfaction, and even pleasure, in the fact that God does it all for his own sake, and will do as he pleases, and owes us nothing, and that my life is according to his will --and that, not because I am obedient, but by his plan-- and that my salvation is according to his mercy and his plan alone.

That knowledge COMPELS me, it does not make me slack, careless or lazy.
 
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Your actual point is that I’m guilty of some kind of hypocrisy for not “complaining” about mans inability to keep the law, but instead for pointing out the inability of man to follow Gods command to believe the gospel promises. Is that right? That’s assuming upon my behalf beliefs I may or may not hold though.
I'm having a hard time following this paragraph. Can you resend the whole post with this paragraph rewritten, or something, so I don't lose it as being by itself? I've got too many conversations going to remember just what was going on with each one.
 
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It may then, surprise you to learn that I came to what I believe before I found out that it was essentially the same as Reformed Theology. I don't claim to be a scholar, though I do study, and have studied for years, on my own, with tears of frustration and pleas for wisdom and understanding over the fact that the theology of my youth did not answer the real questions nor produce the Godliness I craved. I don't claim to have achieved that wisdom and understanding, and I know I still have a long way to go, and no doubt always will. But Reformed Theology (Calvinism) has answered many of my questions and has further given me assurance that I am not the only one who has the satisfaction, and even pleasure, in the fact that God does it all for his own sake, and will do as he pleases, and owes us nothing, and that my life is according to his will --and that, not because I am obedient, but by his plan-- and that my salvation is according to his mercy and his plan alone.

That knowledge COMPELS me, it does not make me slack, careless or lazy.

But you still believe a person can sin and still be saved, right?
If so, this is what is muddying the waters in your thinking.
Calvinism is not taught in the Bible. It's simply a fact.
The story of Jonah would not even make any sense if Calvinism was true.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I believe God preserved His Word for us today by divine intervention. God used the translators of the KJB who were imperfect men to accomplish his goal and purpose in preserving His promise in Psalms 12:6-7 (Which is a promise that is removed or nuetered like a cat in many Modern Translations). Do I have proof the KJB is divine and perfect? Oh yeah. Yes, I do. Just check out my blogger article here on the many evidences that back up God's Word.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

Side Note: Please keep in mind that some of the evidences are general evidences for the Word of God and not exclusive to the KJB. I would also encourage you to check out the 30 reasons why I believe the KJB is the pure Word of God for today, as well.

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today
If you are KJV or KJB only, I think we are done here. I am not superstitious about the English Bible. I'm not even superstitious about the Greek. But the Originals are the inspired. Good day to you, sir.
 
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But you still believe a person can sin and still be saved, right?
If so, this is what is muddying the waters in your thinking.
You (and we all), even the regenerated, sin every day in ways we have not realized.
 
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If you are KJV or KJB only, I think we are done here. I am not superstitious about the English Bible. I'm not even superstitious about the Greek. But the Originals are the inspired. Good day to you, sir.

Biblical Numerics prove both the original languages and the KJB as being divine in origin. I provided videos as proof in the links I provided for you. It's up to you if you want to seek out such truth or not.
 
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But you still believe a person can sin and still be saved, right?
If so, this is what is muddying the waters in your thinking.
Calvinism is not taught in the Bible. It's simply a fact.
The story of Jonah would not even make any sense if Calvinism was true.
Ha! The story of Jonah is a favorite to Calvinists! After all this talk you still apparently take Calvinism to be something it is not.
 
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Mortal sin is any sin that the Bible specifically mentions with warnings of hellfire and condemnation if one were to commit such sin without confessing and forsaking such sins. It's the breaking of any of God's commands today (that apply under the New Covenant) that are attached with warnings of hellfire or condemnation. Note: I do not believe the whole of the 613 laws of Moses is applicable as a whole or package deal. Sure, certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant or New Testament, but as a whole the Old Law is no more because the Old Covenant has ended with Christ's death upon the cross. So we do not have to keep things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumision, dietary laws, holy days, etc.; We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Then all sin is mortal sin. Repentance is demanded by regeneration. Do you think there is any sin or sinfulness that is not transgression of the whole law?
 
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You (and we all), even the regenerated, sin every day in ways we have not realized.

So you say. But what does the Bible say? 2 Corinthians 7:1 says, ...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I just do not see how your belief agrees with that verse.
If you don't like a verse like this in the English, do you seek to change it by playing around with the original languages? If so, therein lies the problem.
 
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Ha! The story of Jonah is a favorite to Calvinists! After all this talk you still apparently take Calvinism to be something it is not.

I don't see how. Jonah told the Ninevites that in 40 days that they were going to be overthrown. But did that happen? No. The people of Nineveh cried out to God and forsaked their wicked ways. When God had seen that they forsaken their evil ways, that is when He turned back in not bring judgment or wrath upon them. It wasn't because God elected them to salvation or reprobation. God changed His decision of judgment based on what THEY did. Read Jonah 3:6-10.
 
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Then all sin is mortal sin. Repentance is demanded by regeneration. Do you think there is any sin or sinfulness that is not transgression of the whole law?

Not all sin leads to death. 1 John 5:17 says there is a sin not unto death. Paul was not condemned when he disobeyed the warnings of the Holy Spirit in going to Jerusalem. Why? Because his motivation in going was love. Paul loved the Jews and he wanted to see them saved. But it was still disobedience. Yet, God did not condemn Paul. Yet, Paul says that murder, adultery, fornication, idolatry, drunkenness, etc. are the kinds of sins that will cause one to not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21).
 
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Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
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May 28, 2018
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So you say. But what does the Bible say? 2 Corinthians 7:1 says, ...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I just do not see how your belief agrees with that verse.
If you don't like a verse like this in the English, do you seek to change it by playing around with the original languages? If so, therein lies the problem.
No the English is just fine, even in 1 John 1:9. I just pointed out the Greek to make a point concerning my upbringing and the way God works. I use many versions as they tend to show thoughts the others may not. And yes, I love the KJV, which is what I was brought up with and most of my memorization is in.

The English is fine, I say, but study of the Greek is necessary too, if one is able, to understand more.
 
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