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Calvinism does not teach otherwise. Calvinism teaches that we chose what we want, according to our nature--always. Hence, if we are born again, then we always chose to persevere in the faith. We are either slaves to sin, or slaves to rightousness. Do you believe that true Christians always, ultimately remain faithful? Do they always show the fruit of the Spirit? (John 8.31f).Paul said:Everything is by God's power alone, i'm not questioning that.... Read the book of Daniel.God leaves the choice to "obey and heed to His power" up to us.
There is a fundamental difference between this statement and the idea that we can choose God, no? I'm wondering if you've got a typo and mean "choose" rather than "chose".. yea or nay?theseed said:Calvinism does not teach otherwise. Calvinism teaches that we chose what we want, according to our nature--always. Hence, if we are born again, then we always chose to persevere in the faith. We are either slaves to sin, or slaves to rightousness. Do you believe that true Christians always, ultimately remain faithful? Do they always show the fruit of the Spirit? (John 8.31f).
If we have a choice to reject Christ as intially, and refuse the gift of salvation, then why should we not be able to reject Christ and salvation afterwards?
I don't really get how free will is free if it's "directed"... it's like Willy (the big whale) was always free; to move around the tank we put him in....Street Preacher said:We have free will, a will that is directed by it's nature.
Do you really believe ALL mankind can do whatever it likes at will? That's chaos.@@Paul@@ said:I don't really get how free will is free if it's "directed"... it's like Willy (the big whale) was always free; to move around the tank we put him in....
I think you lost me. Is the direction like the laws of the universe? Like man is free but still under the direction of physics? I thought we were talking about his ability to accept Christ or reject Him.. I could be way wrong thoughStreet Preacher said:Do you really believe ALL mankind can do whatever it likes at will? That's chaos.
A cow is free to roam a fenced in yard but is still under the 'direction' of the fence.
Yes, I do.Street Preacher said:Do you really believe ALL mankind can do whatever it likes at will? That's chaos.
I meant "choose".BT said:There is a fundamental difference between this statement and the idea that we can choose God, no? I'm wondering if you've got a typo and mean "choose" rather than "chose".. yea or nay?
I think so, I haven't slept much in the last few days and I've had flu like systoms...I'm not sure if I make sense!BT said:I think you lost me. Is the direction like the laws of the universe? Like man is free but still under the direction of physics? I thought we were talking about his ability to accept Christ or reject Him.. I could be way wrong though
Street Preacher said:I think so, I haven't slept much in the last few days and I've had flu like systoms...I'm not sure if I make sense!
Man is under the influance of sin, a slave to sin, he does what his master tells him to do: SIN. We have a free will to choose whatever we like BUT because we are under the influance of sin we 'love darkness rather then light' and continue in sin.
Street Preacher said:I think so, I haven't slept much in the last few days and I've had flu like systoms...I'm not sure if I make sense!
Man is under the influance of sin, a slave to sin, he does what his master tells him to do: SIN. We have a free will to choose whatever we like BUT because we are under the influance of sin we 'love darkness rather then light' and continue in sin.
I hope that makes sense.
sp
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.bleechers said:Do the lost ever not sin? Has a sinner, say, ever received too much change from a McDonald's and given it back? If so... what happened to the slavemaster?
Bleechers said:Do the lost ever not sin? Has a sinner, say, ever received too much change from a McDonald's and given it back? If so... what happened to the slavemaster?
Any works that a man does, that are an attempt to acquire righteousness are as "filthy rags". Man is incapable of saving himself, he is incapable of doing anything "righteous". This does not mean that he never does anything that is "good", just that those things which he does which could be considered or called good are yet not "righteous". This does not however prevent man from seeing the need of a saviour, it also does not prevent a man from calling out to God to save him. In every dispensation man has a responsibility, that responsibility always involves a choice, always has. Man is able to choose, but unable to save himself. The salvation that comes to man is from God, through God's grace, and is available to every man, woman, and child. Man can not acquire it himself it (salvation) is a gift that only God can give, it is a change that only God can make, it is an offer to any who will accept it of their own free will. This is the great grace of God, grace that is available to only some is not grace at all. If grace is limited it is no longer grace it is some kind of divine favoritism and God is no "respector of persons" he doesn't care if you are rich, poor, black, white, man, woman, a doctor, a janitor. His grace is available to all people.theseed said:Our rightous works are as used toilet paper (Isaiah 64.6)
BT said:. Man can not acquire it himself it (salvation) is a gift that only God can give, it is a change that only God can make, it is an offer to any who will accept it of their own free will.
This is the great grace of God, grace that is available to only some is not grace at all. If grace is limited it is no longer grace it is some kind of divine favoritism and God is no "respector of persons" he doesn't care if you are rich, poor, black, white, man, woman, a doctor, a janitor. His grace is available to all people.
BT said:Any works that a man does, that are an attempt to acquire righteousness are as "filthy rags". Man is incapable of saving himself, he is incapable of doing anything "righteous". This does not mean that he never does anything that is "good", just that those things which he does which could be considered or called good are yet not "righteous". This does not however prevent man from seeing the need of a saviour, it also does not prevent a man from calling out to God to save him. In every dispensation man has a responsibility, that responsibility always involves a choice, always has. Man is able to choose, but unable to save himself. The salvation that comes to man is from God, through God's grace, and is available to every man, woman, and child. Man can not acquire it himself it (salvation) is a gift that only God can give, it is a change that only God can make, it is an offer to any who will accept it of their own free will. This is the great grace of God, grace that is available to only some is not grace at all. If grace is limited it is no longer grace it is some kind of divine favoritism and God is no "respector of persons" he doesn't care if you are rich, poor, black, white, man, woman, a doctor, a janitor. His grace is available to all people.
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