Calvinism is (the) Gospel

[Justified Sinner]

Poor guy sure was confused.

Meaning?

 

[renniks]

Meaning?

Meaning Calvinism isn't the gospel.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Certainly not if I go around slandering the Most High. And you?

So you're saying that if you don't slander God, you do deserve redemption?

I don't deserve redemption because I'm a sinner and the penalty of my sin needs a substitute.

Your convictions of whether limited atonement, penal substitution, predestination and damnation really honor God depend on whether or not you believe God's wrath is real!

 

[The Righterzpen]

Meaning?

@renniks believes he needs to counter "calvinism" at every turn to protect mens' "free wills" from being deceived by such concepts of God's sovereignty.

He frequently seeks out these types of posts.

 

[Silverback]

There have always been schisms. The eastern and western church split (at least unofficially) not too long after Constantine. You're right in the sense that a lot was going on before Luther. He was just the last gallon of water that broke the proverbial dam.

And yes, I'm aware that most of the denominations that exist today are post reformation. Post Luther, there were a lot of people trying to figure out / write / nail down exactly what they believed. Thus a lot of catechisms and confessions and other such type documents penned. That takes time.

Then on top of that; once we hit the latter half of the 19th century into the 20th century that a lot of past convictions and doctrinal interpretations of Scripture fall by the way side. Things like dispensationalism and the modern tongues movement come into play; which opens the door to the arise of extra Scriptural denominations like Mormonism and other various groups that are often labeled as cults.

Martin Luther was a troubled soul, but he was on fire for God. Luther hated the fact that his reforming campaign took on his name. Luther never wanted to replace the Catholic Church, simply reform it, however, as time went by he realized it was not going to happen, and accepted there was no going back. He married a run away Nun, and had like seven kids.

There was another Lutheran reformer who came along after Luther's death...Martin Chemnitz, who is given the credit for keeping things from spiralling out of control, during his time the Lutheran confessions were compiled into the book of Concord.

Reformers are great, but God gets the credit!

 

[renniks]

@renniks believes he needs to counter "calvinism" at every turn to protect mens' "free wills" from being deceived by the concept of God's sovereignty.

He frequently seeks out these types of posts.

Wrong. God is sovereign. But sovereignty doesn't mean what Calvinist think it means.

"God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. ... Man's will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures." A. W. Tozer.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Wrong. God is sovereign. But sovereignty doesn't mean what Calvinist think it means.

"God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. ... Man's will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures." A. W. Tozer.

Just as you have said that no one will ever convince you of "calvinism"; you need to accept the fact that you will not convince those with solid convictions on these doctrines and let it go.

If you truly believe in the sovereignty of God as you claim to; than leave it to Him to deal with.

 

[royal priest]

Wrong. God is sovereign. But sovereignty doesn't mean what Calvinist think it means.

"God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. ... Man's will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures." A. W. Tozer.

We are free to do as we please. What we are not free to do is acknowledge God is behind it all.

 

[renniks]

We are free to do as we please. What we are not free to do is acknowledge God is behind it all.

Why not? How can we be held responsible for something that we cannot possibly do?

 

[renniks]

Just as you have said that no one will ever convince you of "calvinism"; you need to accept the fact that you will not convince those with solid convictions on these doctrines and let it go.

If you truly believe in the sovereignty of God as you claim to; than leave it to Him to deal with.

There's lots of people who are undecided however, and many who have been Calvinists change thier views because of a better understanding of scripture.

 

[The Righterzpen]

There's lots of people who are undecided however, and many who have been Calvinists change thier views because of a better understanding of scripture.

And you're all out for the personal glory of making that happen huh!

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they
shall deceive the very elect.

I'm not worried about you or the elect. Preach what ever you want.

 

[royal priest]

Why not? How can we be held responsible for something that we cannot possibly do?

That's God's business. Our business is making sure we call upon Him while He is near

 

[renniks]

And you're all out for the personal glory of making that happen huh!

Not at all. I'm for people being freed by the truth.

 

[renniks]

That's God's business. Our business is making sure we call upon Him while He is near

Nice avoidance of the question. He is near to all who call.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Not at all. I'm for people being freed by the truth.

Freed by your truth? Yeah..... Just so the group knows; I've had extensive conversations with this person and he's very antagonistic!

Be aware of what forum you are in! You can be reported and if so; you will get a warning and if enough warnings; banned from the site.

Consider yourself warned - I have no qualms about reporting you myself!

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

Statement of Purpose - Semper Reformanda - Reformed Statement of Faith

 

[royal priest]

Nice avoidance of the question. He is near to all who call.

Amen. He is our hope, and by His hand, I will never grow weary of proclaiming His all-sufficient grace.

 

[renniks]

Consider yourself warned - I have no qualms about reporting you myself!

For doing what?

 

[royal priest]

For doing what?

We're not allowed to debate in the faith communities. Controversial Theology is the arena for that stuff.

 

[renniks]

Freed by your truth? Yeah..... Just so the group knows; I've had extensive conversations with this person and he's very antagonistic!

Be aware of what forum you are in! You can be reported and if so; you will get a warning and if enough warnings; banned from the site.

Consider yourself warned - I have no qualms about reporting you myself!

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

Statement of Purpose - Semper Reformanda - Reformed Statement of Faith

I'm actually hurt that you think I'm overly antagonistic, I try to keep it fun, but I'm used to expressing strong opinions without being nasty. Maybe someone doesn't see it that way. I didn't realize I was not allowed to have a serious discussion in this department... adios, then!

 

[royal priest]

I'm actually hurt that you think I'm overly antagonistic, I try to keep it fun, but I'm used to expressing strong opinions without being nasty. Maybe someone doesn't see it that way. I didn't realize I was not allowed to have a serious discussion in this department... adios, then!

Amigo