Calvary was never plan B

faroukfarouk

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Acts 2:23
23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
Well, exactly. God gave One Who was already His only begotten Son when He came into the world because sinners needed a Saviour. The Incarnation of the Son of God implied need for the Saviour to suffer in the flesh for sin, in the purposes of God, 'that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life'.
 
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jgr

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M.R. DeHaan, well-known dispensational preacher: ”… the kingdom of heaven is the reign of heaven’s King on earth. This Jesus offered to the nation of Israel when he came the first time, but they rejected it and he went to the cross...”

i.e. the kingdom was postponed, and Calvary was substituted as Plan B.
 
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faroukfarouk

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M.R. DeHaan, well-known dispensational preacher: ”… the kingdom of heaven is the reign of heaven’s King on earth. This Jesus offered to the nation of Israel when he came the first time, but they rejected it and he went to the cross...”

i.e. the kingdom was postponed, and Calvary was substituted as Plan B.
I'm dispensational myself, but would definitely not regard the Cross as Plan B.
 
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LastSeven

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Bro. DeHaan evidently believed it was plan B, or an alternative plan, or something other than "the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God."
I mean, does anybody here on this forum believe Calvary was plan B? I have no idea who this de Haan is or why it's important what he believes.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Bro. DeHaan evidently believed it was plan B, or an alternative plan, or something other than "the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God."
1 Corinthians 10.32 has a helpful reference to the three groups of people the world.

The Jew, the gentile and the church of God.

The true church of God will presumably acknowledge the Cross to be central to God's purposes in Christ; the others groups are fields of evangelism.
 
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Paterfamilia

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The dispensations of God are a bit more in depth than has been referenced here. As in, as many dispensations as there are humans in history.

With regard to God's plan, it seems to me that any talk of a "plan B" entails a different god than the maximally great God who took that walk of suffering and died on a cross in order to demonstrate maximally great love.

His death on the cross was the whole reason He created this universe in the first place. I'd hardly call that "plan B".
 
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BABerean2

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The older forms of Classic Dispensational Theology did teach there is a Plan B, although its modern proponents may not admit it.
Many do not realize this is the reason the Pretrib rapture is needed by modern Dispensationalism.

They claim the "Church Age" comes to an end 7 years before the Second Coming and then there will be a time when God will go back and deal with the modern State of Israel under the Old Covenant system.

There are just a few problems.

In Hebrews 8:13 we find that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
In Hebrews 13:20 we find that the New Covenant is "everlasting".

The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13. It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah chapter 31. When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.



 
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miamited

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Hi jgr and last seven,

Jesus' death for the sin of man was never plan B. It was always the only plan. These guys that say that Israel rejected their king and that's why Jesus had to die have apparently not read the whole of the Scriptures. You see, the Scriptures are quite clear that no one will be saved by merely keeping the law. As a matter of fact, if one reads the law and the consequences for following or not following the commands and decrees that God gave unto Israel in the desert, they will find that the promises for following or not following God's commands and decrees was never salvation.

The reward for Israel in following the law was long and satisfied life upon the earth. The consequence for not following the law was pain and suffering while living on the earth. Never once does God say in the law that keeping it will gain anyone eternal life. Paul makes it quite clear in the new covenant that the law was never intended to produce eternal life for those who would keep it. From God's first command that there be light in this realm, there was going to be necessary a sacrifice for sin.

However, God did use Israel and did harden their hearts so that they would deliver His Son up to death on the cross. Israel has always been God's people and everything that God has done with and for mankind has been through His people, Israel. Jesus even makes mention that Judas was raised up and established before Jesus began his ministry as the one who would betray him. In his praying to his Father he speaks of having lost none of his disciples except for the one who was destined to betray him.

Jesus' death for sin was always the plan.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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ToBeLoved

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Hi jgr and last seven,

Jesus' death for the sin of man was never plan B. It was always the only plan. These guys that say that Israel rejected their king and that's why Jesus had to die have apparently not read the whole of the Scriptures. You see, the Scriptures are quite clear that no one will be saved by merely keeping the law. As a matter of fact, if one reads the law and the consequences for following or not following the commands and decrees that God gave unto Israel in the desert, they will find that the promises for following or not following God's commands and decrees was never salvation.

The reward for Israel in following the law was long and satisfied life upon the earth. The consequence for not following the law was pain and suffering while living on the earth. Never once does God say in the law that keeping it will gain anyone eternal life. Paul makes it quite clear in the new covenant that the law was never intended to produce eternal life for those who would keep it. From God's first command that there be light in this realm, there was going to be necessary a sacrifice for sin.

However, God did use Israel and did harden their hearts so that they would deliver His Son up to death on the cross. Israel has always been God's people and everything that God has done with and for mankind has been through His people, Israel. Jesus even makes mention that Judas was raised up and established before Jesus began his ministry as the one who would betray him. In his praying to his Father he speaks of having lost none of his disciples except for the one who was destined to betray him.

Jesus' death for sin was always the plan.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
This is very good post.

The only part that I disagree with is this

However, God did use Israel and did harden their hearts so that they would deliver His Son up to death on the cross.


Jesus always came for Israel and even after His death sent ALL of the apostles to Israel. Only after the rejection of Him by Israel, were their hearts hardened and then Paul went to the Gentiles, but even Paul went to Israel first as Christ commanded of all of them. And even then, all of the other apostles still went to Israel, only Paul specifically went to the Gentiles.

But otherwise, excellent post.
 
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Biblewriter

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The enemies of Dispensationalism often falsely accuse Dispensationalists of teaching that the cross is plan B. And one of the more dishonest ones claims that early dispensationalists taught that, even though most do not teach that today.


But the truth is that dispensationalism is very old, and that from the beginning, it was stressed that the cross had been God's plan from the very beginning.

Augustine, writing around the end of the fourth century or the beginning of the fifth century, said:


“The divine institution of sacrifice was suitable in the former dispensation, but is not suitable now. For the change suitable to the present age has been enjoined by God, who knows infinitely better than man what is fitting for every age, and who is, whether He give or add, abolish or curtail, increase or diminish, the unchangeable Governor as He is the unchangeable Creator of mutable things, ordering all events in His providence until the beauty of the completed course of time, the component parts of which are the dispensations adapted to each successive age, shall be finished, like the grand melody of some ineffably wise master of song, and those pass into the eternal immediate contemplation of God who here, though it is a time of faith, not of sight, are acceptably worshipping Him.” (“Letters of Augustin, Third Division, Letter 138 - to Marcellinus,” by Augustin, section 5.) From “Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, volume 1, Edited by Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D..)

This is the very essence of dispensationalism, for it teaches that, although God is unchangeable, he deals with mankind in different ways in different ages.

Further down in the same letter, Augustin went on to say, “For in order to let those whom these things perplex understand that the change was already in the divine counsel, and that, when the new ordinances were appointed, it was not because the old had suddenly lost the divine approbation through inconstancy in His will, but that this had been already fixed and determined by the wisdom of that God to whom, in reference to much greater changes, these words are spoken in Scripture: Thou shalt change them, and they shall be changed; but Thou art the same,” —it is necessary to convince them that this exchange of the sacraments of the Old Testament for those of the New had been predicted by the voices of the prophets.”

It is a major tenet of dispensationalism, that the changes in the ways God deals with humanity were all part of His basic plan from the very beginning. Opponents of Dispensationalism often mock is as imagining that the church is God’s “plan B.” But Dispensationalism actually teaches that these changes had been a part of God’s overall plan from the very beginning. So in this comment, Augustin was defending Dispensationalism in the same way that modern Dispensationalists defend it.
 
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jgr

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Enemies of Covenant Truth frequently and predictably distort the prophetic insights of historical church figures in incessant attempts to establish doctrinal credibility.

We may rest assured that Augustine’s understanding of “dispensation” bears no resemblance to what is posited in the declarations of today’s dispensationalism. We need look no further than the provided quotation itself to see that he recognized only two scriptural dispensations, the Old and the New: “…it is necessary to convince them that this exchange of the sacraments of the Old Testament for those of the New had been predicted by the voices of the prophets.” It is also an indictment of the dispensational claim that the OT prophets did not see what is averred to be the NT “parenthesis” of the church age. Augustine quite evidently and correctly believed that they did see it; that it is therefore no parenthesis; and that it is in reality the ultimate and consummate fulfillment of God’s intention to reserve unto Himself a sole and exclusive people from the foundation of the world.

Augustine was no dispensationalist.
 
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Biblewriter

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Enemies of Covenant Truth frequently and predictably distort the prophetic insights of historical church figures in incessant attempts to establish doctrinal credibility.

We may rest assured that Augustine’s understanding of “dispensation” bears no resemblance to what is posited in the declarations of today’s dispensationalism. We need look no further than the provided quotation itself to see that he recognized only two scriptural dispensations, the Old and the New: “…it is necessary to convince them that this exchange of the sacraments of the Old Testament for those of the New had been predicted by the voices of the prophets.” It is also an indictment of the dispensational claim that the OT prophets did not see what is averred to be the NT “parenthesis” of the church age. Augustine quite evidently and correctly believed that they did see it; that it is therefore no parenthesis; and that it is in reality the ultimate and consummate fulfillment of God’s intention to reserve unto Himself a sole and exclusive people from the foundation of the world.

Augustine was no dispensationalist.

I reject your conclusions as groundless on the face. But since you want to see more than just two dispensations, We can go the the very oldest Christian commentary on Bible prophecy (of any significant length) which has survived to the present day. This is found in the very famous work by Irenaeus, titled "Against Heresies," which is believed to have been written in 186 to 1 A.D.


Irenaeus taught the essence of dispensationalism in the following statements:

“Therefore the Son of the Father declares [Him] from the beginning, inasmuch as He was with the Father from the beginning, who did also show to the human race prophetic visions, and diversities of gifts, and His own ministrations, and the glory of the Father, in regular order and connection, at the fitting time for the benefit [of mankind]. For where there is a regular succession, there is also fixedness; and where fixedness, there suitability to the period; and where suitability, there also utility. And for this reason did the Word become the dispenser of the paternal grace for the benefit of men, for whom He made such great dispensations, revealing God indeed to men, but presenting man to God, and preserving at the same time the invisibility of the Father, lest man should at any time become a despiser of God, and that he should always possess something towards which he might advance; but, on the other hand, revealing God to men through many dispensations, lest man, failing away from God altogether, should cease to exist.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book IV, chapter XX, section 7.)

We need to notice certain key parts of this statement. Irenaeus said that God has “from the beginning” shown “to the human race prophetic visions” “in regular order and connection, at the fitting time,” and in “a regular succession,” with “suitability to the period.” And we particularly need to notice his statement that the Word was “revealing God to men through many dispensations.”

A few chapters later, Irenaeus further said, “There is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) and has judged those who are judged, that is, those who forget God, and are blasphemous, and transgressors of His word.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book IV, chapter XXVIII, section 2.)

We already noticed in the first quotation we examined that Irenaeus said that “the Word” was “revealing God to men through many dispensations,” and that he said that this was done “at the fitting time,” in “a regular succession,” with “suitability to the period.” Now we see that he added that the Word “has been always present with the human race,” and saved various individuals “according to the class to which they belong.”

All of this was about past dispensations, but Irenaeus also spoke of future ones, saying, “Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature; and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behoves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXXII, section 1.)

In this short summary, I have included only a few statements that summarized his thoughts on the matter. But he spoke of these things many times, using the word dispensation, or its plural form dispensations, well over eighty times. He explicitly named a few of these dispensations, namely “the dispensation of the law,” (book III, chapter XI, section 7, and again in book III, chapter XV, section 3) which he also called “the Levitical Dispensation,” (book IV, Title of chapter XVII.) “the Mosaic dispensation,” (book IV, chapter XXXVI, section 2.) and “the legal dispensation.” (book III, chapter X, section 2 and the title of book V, chapter VIII.) He used this last term a third time, contrasting it with “the new dispensation of liberty” in book III, chapter X, section 4. And he spoke of the present age as “our dispensation” in book IV, chapter XV, section 2. Finally, he referred to “the future dispensation of the human race.” (book III, chapter XXII, section 3.) We should also note that he used the term the “dispensations of God,” eight times. These eight times were in book I, chapter X, section 1, book I, chapter XVI, section 3, book II, chapter XXV, section 3, book III, chapter XI, section 9, book IV, chapter XX, section 10, book IV, chapter XXI, section 3, book IV, chapter XXIII, section 1, and book IV, chapter XXXIII, section 1.

Irenaeus insisted that his doctrine of the dispensations was what the church had always taught, saying, ““The Church, though dispersed through our the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents...” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book I, chapter X, section 1.) He said again that “Where, therefore, the gifts of the Lord have been placed, there it behoves us to learn the truth, [namely,] from those who possess that succession of the Church which is from the apostles, and among whom exists that which is sound and blameless in conduct, as well as that which is unadulterated and incorrupt in speech. For these also preserve this faith of ours in one God who created all things; and they increase that love [which we have] for the Son of God, who accomplished such marvellous dispensations for our sake: and they expound the Scriptures to us without danger, neither blaspheming God, nor dishonouring the patriarchs, nor despising the prophets.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book IV, chapter XXVI, section 5.)
 
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