Calling things that are not as though they are.

probinson said:

Joshua and Caleb said that the Lord had given the promised land to them. Even before they were in the promised land. Even when the throng of people said THERE ARE GIANTS! and ran away. They said the land was theirs.

It all boils down to this. Are you going to believe God, or are you going to believe your circumstances? Are you going to look at the giants and run, or are you going to say what God says?

Of course I can't create anything with my words. That's not the point. The point is when God says something, I agree with it and not with my circumstances.

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I agree here to a point P. All of God's creative work is already accomplished, however; the manipulation of that created work is still in progress.

My point being, the spoken word may have more influence than we commonly give it credit for.

Atlantians said:

God speaks of things that are not as though they were, God does this, not we.

Proverbs 18:21 is a Proverb. Not a Doctrinal study into a mysticle power of speaking.
It was written by a King who litterally had the authority in his kingdom to order someone to die.

It applies to us in the metaphorical sense that when we say things good or bad of people it affects those who hear it, and affects the speaker.

It is not saying we have the power in our words to command things into reality that are not.
Nor does it mean that we can speak "death" to something and that it will then die.

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You really have a gift for watering down Bible truths and pulling people down to the plane of the natural.

probinson said:

Joshua and Caleb said that the Lord had given the promised land to them. Even before they were in the promised land. Even when the throng of people said THERE ARE GIANTS! and ran away. They said the land was theirs.

It all boils down to this. Are you going to believe God, or are you going to believe your circumstances? Are you going to look at the giants and run, or are you going to say what God says?

Of course I can't create anything with my words. That's not the point. The point is when God says something, I agree with it and not with my circumstances.

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Absolutely, it is not denial but a form of faith and belief in what God is doing or going to do in your life.

The Lord is my banner said:

Eph. 3:

20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Sounds to me like we actually have the power of God in us to perform what Jesus says we should do - and this verse says that when we do - God gets the glory!
I am encouraged!

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Yes! Sue!

This is it!!

If only we could all "get it" 100% of the time.... can you imagine what this earth would look like!

Zzub said:

Amen Prob...

And the people who (correctly and accurately in the natural, carnal realm) said there were giants in the land were told they brought an EVIL report.

The people who call those things as though they ARE are the ones with the evil report.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

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Well, Joshua and Caleb both reported the presence of descendents of Anak and walled cities in the land, too. The difference was that Joshua and Caleb both trusted that God would deliver them into the land. The other spies didn't believe that God could give it to them.

Numbers 13:26-33
26 They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land. 27 They gave Moses this account: "We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! Here is its fruit. 28 But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there. 29 The Amalekites live in the Negev; the Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites live in the hill country; and the Canaanites live near the sea and along the Jordan."

30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, "We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it." 31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are." 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
***
Numbers 14:6-9
6 Joshua son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had explored the land, tore their clothes 7 and said to the entire Israelite assembly, "The land we passed through and explored is exceedingly good. 8 If the LORD is pleased with us, he will lead us into that land, a land flowing with milk and honey, and will give it to us. 9 Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not be afraid of the people of the land, because we will swallow them up. Their protection is gone, but the LORD is with us. Do not be afraid of them."

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In context, it seems to me that the report of the others was 'evil/bad' not because they were telling the truth about their enemies, but because they were deliberately attempting to dissuade the people from believing God would go before them by neglecting to tell how good the land was, only talking about the difficulties. So, actually, it was the others who were neglecting reality. They spread a 'bad' report of the land. (IOW, their report wasn't judged to be evil because they shouldn't have said what they did... their report was, by their own design, a 'bad report' because they wanted the people to think they only saw bad things.)

Joshua and Caleb both acknowledged that the enemies were there.... they didn't say, "Oh, there aren't any enemies, it's all milk and honey". They simply said, "Yeah, there are enemies, but God will take care of them."

They couldn't enter the promised land becos of unbelief. There was idol worship, murmuring, fornication etc, but THE sin that kept them out was UNBELIEF.

Today, many Christians also cannot enter the promised land not becos of 'big' sins but becos of the bigger sin -- unbelief.

To God, talking unbelief is evil reporting.

Amen, Disciple.

Brilliant post.

Tamara224 said:

Joshua and Caleb both acknowledged that the enemies were there.... they didn't say, "Oh, there aren't any enemies, it's all milk and honey". They simply said, "Yeah, there are enemies, but God will take care of them."

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There is a VERY small remnant of WoF teaching that teaches you to deny that your sickness even exists. But the majority will tell you to do just what Joshua and Caleb did. Joshua and Caleb acknowledged their circumstances, but they remembered that GOD SAID the land was theirs.

I acknowledged that the doctor said I would suffer from allergies for the rest of my life, but I remembered that GOD SAID that by His stripes, I am healed.

When you call things that are not as though they are, you are simply agreeing with what God says, and not what your circumstances say. You can see it all through the Bible. You are not lying or in denial. You're acknowledging that there are giants in the land, but GOD SAID...

You'll either agree with your circumstances, or you'll agree with God.

probinson said:

There is a VERY small remnant of WoF teaching that teaches you to deny that your sickness even exists. But the majority will tell you to do just what Joshua and Caleb did. Joshua and Caleb acknowledged their circumstances, but they remembered that GOD SAID the land was theirs.

I acknowledged that the doctor said I would suffer from allergies for the rest of my life, but I remembered that GOD SAID that by His stripes, I am healed.

When you call things that are not as though they are, you are simply agreeing with what God says, and not what your circumstances say. You can see it all through the Bible. You are not lying or in denial. You're acknowledging that there are giants in the land, but GOD SAID...

You'll either agree with your circumstances, or you'll agree with God.

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That makes total sense and I have no disagreement with that. Except maybe with one part of it, I guess... I don't think it is contradictory to agree with God without 'denying' the circumstances. The circumstances are what they are ... there's no call for me to either agree or disagree with them. If God tells me that the circumstances will change, then I don't say "oh, well God, it's pretty bad, I don't think it can change" I say, "well, it's pretty bad, but praise God, He's going to take care of it and it will all be better."

It's just like Martha said to Jesus after Lazarus died. She didn't deny that Lazarus was dead, had been dead for 4 days. She said to Jesus "If you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask." (John 11, throughout) Martha had complete faith in Jesus, she declared to Jesus: "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world." Her having faith in Jesus did not mean that she had to 'disagree' with the circumstances. She believed in Jesus, she believed that He was the Christ, the Son of God. However, she knew that Lazarus was dead, more than that, she knew he'd been dead for four days and was already decaying. She didn't deny that, she didn't 'disagree' with that.

Also, she didn't really have any idea what Jesus was going to do. Jesus even told her that Lazarus would rise again and Martha said "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." Obviously, Martha wasn't sure that Jesus planned to raise him right then.

But guess what? Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb. Mary and Martha didn't believe for exactly that... they believed it was possible, obviously, that Jesus was able to do it. However, they didn't know that was his plan. And, he did it anyway. In fact, He planned it that way. He had known that Lazarus was sick before he died, He could have healed him, but instead He waited. He said "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." Then He waited 2 days until Lazarus died.

So, this leads me to believe that God's will in that situation was carried out. Martha and Mary's faith in Jesus didn't bring anything about. It was Jesus' plan all along to let Lazarus die so that He could raise him from the dead.

My point in all of this is that Mary and Martha 'agreed' with the circumstances and they believed in God. And, the ultimate conclusion was that God's will was done. The point is that we know what the circumstances are ... believing in God, trusting God, means knowing that He can and does change the circumstances.

One final note on Joshua and Caleb... they also 'agreed' with the circumstances, they just agreed with the totality of the circumstances... the other spies thought that the entirety of circumstances was that their enemies were stronger. But Joshua and Caleb factored in God's promise and God's might... the totality of the circumstances is that the enemies' "protection" was gone and if God was pleased with the Israelites, He would lead them into the land. IOW, the circumstances would change.

Tamara224 said:

That makes total sense and I have no disagreement with that. Except maybe with one part of it, I guess... I don't think it is contradictory to agree with God without 'denying' the circumstances. The circumstances are what they are ... there's no call for me to either agree or disagree with them. If God tells me that the circumstances will change, then I don't say "oh, well God, it's pretty bad, I don't think it can change" I say, "well, it's pretty bad, but praise God, He's going to take care of it and it will all be better."

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Again, I'm not saying that you should deny your circumstances. I'm saying you should agree with God.

Tamara224 said:

It's just like Martha said to Jesus after Lazarus died. She didn't deny that Lazarus was dead, had been dead for 4 days. She said to Jesus "If you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask." (John 11, throughout) Martha had complete faith in Jesus, she declared to Jesus: "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world." Her having faith in Jesus did not mean that she had to 'disagree' with the circumstances. She believed in Jesus, she believed that He was the Christ, the Son of God. However, she knew that Lazarus was dead, more than that, she knew he'd been dead for four days and was already decaying. She didn't deny that, she didn't 'disagree' with that.

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What Martha did disagree with was that earlier, Jesus had said that this sickness won't end in death. JESUS said that. Martha looked at her circumstance and said that Lazarus was dead, COMPLETELY disregarding Jesus' statement that the sickness would not end in death.

Tamara224 said:

Also, she didn't really have any idea what Jesus was going to do. Jesus even told her that Lazarus would rise again and Martha said "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." Obviously, Martha wasn't sure that Jesus planned to raise him right then.

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Precisely. Again, Jesus reminds Martha that He said the sickness would not end in death, and so Martha rationalizes away what Jesus had said. Jesus clearly and plainly said that Lazarus' sickness would not end in death. Yet NO ONE believed Him.

I've talked about this story before. Even devoted an entire thread to it. I believe Jesus wept because He was surrounded by unbelief. I believe Jesus wanted to do so much more, but knew that without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Tamara224 said:

But guess what? Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb. Mary and Martha didn't believe for exactly that... they believed it was possible, obviously, that Jesus was able to do it. However, they didn't know that was his plan. And, he did it anyway. In fact, He planned it that way. He had known that Lazarus was sick before he died, He could have healed him, but instead He waited. He said "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." Then He waited 2 days until Lazarus died.

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The thing we forget is that Jesus DID heal Lazarus! He raised him from the dead! I'm sure Lazarus was not sick when he walked out of that tomb. Further, I'm sure Lazarus had already been enbalmed before he was placed into the tomb. It's an absolute miracle that Lazarus walked out of that tomb, bound in the graveclothes that the unbelievers had put on him. Jesus said, "Loose him and let him go!".
Unbelief will bind you.

Tamara224 said:

So, this leads me to believe that God's will in that situation was carried out. Martha and Mary's faith in Jesus didn't bring anything about. It was Jesus' plan all along to let Lazarus die so that He could raise him from the dead.

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I absolutely agree. Mary and Martha had absolutely no faith in what Jesus had said regarding this situation.

Tamara224 said:

My point in all of this is that Mary and Martha 'agreed' with the circumstances and they believed in God. And, the ultimate conclusion was that God's will was done. The point is that we know what the circumstances are ... believing in God, trusting God, means knowing that He can and does change the circumstances.

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When I say "agree" with your circumstance, this is what I mean. Mary and Martha very much agreed with their circumstance. The believed that Lazarus was dead and he would stay dead as eveidenced by the statement "I know he will rise again in the last day". They were NOT agreeing with what Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death". They even tried to heap some guilt on him when He showed up saying "If you'd have been here, my brother had not died". They didn't believe Him IN THIS INSTANCE.

Tamara224 said:

One final note on Joshua and Caleb... they also 'agreed' with the circumstances, they just agreed with the totality of the circumstances... the other spies thought that the entirety of circumstances was that their enemies were stronger. But Joshua and Caleb factored in God's promise and God's might... the totality of the circumstances is that the enemies' "protection" was gone and if God was pleased with the Israelites, He would lead them into the land. IOW, the circumstances would change.

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Again, Joshua and Caleb did NOT "agree" with their circumstances. Yes, they saw and acknowledged the giants, but they went with what God said, even though the giants looked big and mean. Those with the evil report did "agree" with their circumstance. They saw giants and they forgot that God had given them the land. They disobeyed and disagreed with what God said. As a result, they wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

A practical example. I've known people that have gone to the doctor and been told that they have terminal cancer. Their circumstances told them that they had weeks to live. They did not deny that cancer existed in their body, but they denied it's right to exist in their body by the stripes that were laid on Jesus' back. They disagreed with the circumstance that said they would be dead in a few weeks and instead agreed with what God said. Those people are alive and well to this day.

probinson said:

Again, I'm not saying that you should deny your circumstances. I'm saying you should agree with God.

What Martha did disagree with was that earlier, Jesus had said that this sickness won't end in death. JESUS said that. Martha looked at her circumstance and said that Lazarus was dead, COMPLETELY disregarding Jesus' statement that the sickness would not end in death.

Precisely. Again, Jesus reminds Martha that He said the sickness would not end in death, and so Martha rationalizes away what Jesus had said. Jesus clearly and plainly said that Lazarus' sickness would not end in death. Yet NO ONE believed Him......

A practical example. I've known people that have gone to the doctor and been told that they have terminal cancer. Their circumstances told them that they had weeks to live. They did not deny that cancer existed in their body, but they denied it's right to exist in their body by the stripes that were laid on Jesus' back. They disagreed with the circumstance that said they would be dead in a few weeks and instead agreed with what God said. Those people are alive and well to this day.

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I see what you are saying, Pete, but Martha wasn't around when Jesus said that this illness would not result in death. Jesus said it to his disciples! He hadn't gone to Bethany yet. So she couldn't disbelieve him when she hadn't heard him.

And my mother KNEW that she would be healed of her cancer. She KNEW it down to the last day when the doctors took her off her 3rd round of chemo. She KNEW it and then she died. Personally, I believe that she's better off in heaven than here on earth, but that's just me! (Don't you just hate it when someone says "but that's just me"?)

BarbB said:

I see what you are saying, Pete, but Martha wasn't around when Jesus said that this illness would not result in death. Jesus said it to his disciples! He hadn't gone to Bethany yet. So she couldn't disbelieve him when she hadn't heard him.

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This is Jesus' response to Martha, when she tries to dissuade Jesus from opening the tomb because Lazarus will certainly stink by now:

John 11:40
Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"

It would seem that somewhere along the line, Jesus told Martha something.

BarbB said:

I see what you are saying, Pete, but Martha wasn't around when Jesus said that this illness would not result in death. Jesus said it to his disciples! He hadn't gone to Bethany yet. So she couldn't disbelieve him when she hadn't heard him.

And my mother KNEW that she would be healed of her cancer. She KNEW it down to the last day when the doctors took her off her 3rd round of chemo. She KNEW it and then she died. Personally, I believe that she's better off in heaven than here on earth, but that's just me! (Don't you just hate it when someone says "but that's just me"?)

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But wouldn't it be better to question the doctor's skill than to question your mother's faith for healing? (I'm truely not being nasty here Barb, I just don't know any other way to ask the question. If you are offended by the question I will remove it immediately and offer my apologies).

probinson said:

This is Jesus' response to Martha, when she tries to dissuade Jesus from opening the tomb because Lazarus will certainly stink by now:

John 11:40
Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"

It would seem that somewhere along the line, Jesus told Martha something.

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Once again I see where you are coming from, but I simply cannot put something in the scripture that isn't there. If that sentence had critical meaning to the story of Lazarus, John (and God) would never have left it out. So I have to go by what is there, not what I want to be there.

Doesn't mean that you aren't right. Just means that I fear to add verses to make it fit.

John 11:40 is just as appropriate from Jesus to Martha if he's talking about the Resurrection.

BarbB said:

Once again I see where you are coming from, but I simply cannot put something in the scripture that isn't there. If that sentence had critical meaning to the story of Lazarus, John (and God) would never have left it out. So I have to go by what is there, not what I want to be there.

Doesn't mean that you aren't right. Just means that I fear to add verses to make it fit.

John 11:40 is just as appropriate from Jesus to Martha if he's talking about the Resurrection.

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Well I understand what you're saying, and certainly we shouldn't add to or take away from scripture, but I don't think I'm adding things here to make it fit. I think it's quite clear here:

John 11:40
Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"

probinson said:

Again, I'm not saying that you should deny your circumstances. I'm saying you should agree with God.

What Martha did disagree with was that earlier, Jesus had said that this sickness won't end in death. JESUS said that. Martha looked at her circumstance and said that Lazarus was dead, COMPLETELY disregarding Jesus' statement that the sickness would not end in death.

Precisely. Again, Jesus reminds Martha that He said the sickness would not end in death, and so Martha rationalizes away what Jesus had said. Jesus clearly and plainly said that Lazarus' sickness would not end in death. Yet NO ONE believed Him.

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Well, to be fair to Martha (and to get it right)... Jesus wasn't anywhere near her when he said that it wouldn't end in death. Mary and Martha sent word to Him and He told his disciples that it wouldn't end in death. The sisters didn't get to hear that part...

I've talked about this story before. Even devoted an entire thread to it. I believe Jesus wept because He was surrounded by unbelief. I believe Jesus wanted to do so much more, but knew that without faith, it is impossible to please God.

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Pete, I'm sorry, but I think you're really reading something into the text that is not there. It says that

Jesus loved Martha, Mary and Lazarus. In context, I believe it is clear that Jesus wept because the weeping of Mary and others moved Him to tears... He was weeping out of compassion, I think... I believe that if Jesus had wept because of their unbelief, it would have said something else. The text makes no mention whatsoever of Jesus being troubled by anyone's lack of faith. Instead, it talks of Him being moved and troubled by their tears. I think He wept because He loved them and because their grief moved Him.

The thing we forget is that Jesus DID heal Lazarus! He raised him from the dead! I'm sure Lazarus was not sick when he walked out of that tomb. Further, I'm sure Lazarus had already been enbalmed before he was placed into the tomb. It's an absolute miracle that Lazarus walked out of that tomb, bound in the graveclothes that the unbelievers had put on him. Jesus said, "Loose him and let him go!".
Unbelief will bind you.

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Amen about the miracle!! And, I would like to add that, if, as you have asserted, Lazarus was bound by unbelief and the sisters were 'unbelieving' then it is pretty contrary to your theory (I think) that Jesus went ahead and raised Him from the dead. I thought the WoF doctrine was that Jesus couldn't do anything if the people didn't believe it? Or that the unbelief of one person can nullify the belief of others?

However, I think it's very wrong to call Mary and Martha unbelievers here. They believed in Jesus, they recognized Him as the Christ. They trusted Him, saying, essentially: 'our brother is dead, but we know you can still do something about it.' That doesn't demonstrate unbelief.

In any event, nobody's unbelief shackled Lazarus... as I mentioned before, Jesus let him die on purpose so that He could raise him again. The sisters sent word to Jesus as soon as he got sick, believing, undoubtedly that Jesus would come heal him.

I absolutely agree. Mary and Martha had absolutely no faith in what Jesus had said regarding this situation.

When I say "agree" with your circumstance, this is what I mean. Mary and Martha very much agreed with their circumstance. The believed that Lazarus was dead and he would stay dead as eveidenced by the statement "I know he will rise again in the last day". They were NOT agreeing with what Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death". They even tried to heap some guilt on him when He showed up saying "If you'd have been here, my brother had not died". They didn't believe Him IN THIS INSTANCE.

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Again, please go re-check the chronology... Mary and Martha were not present when Jesus said the sickness would not end in death. They were completely ignorant of that promise. You cannot say they have lack of faith for not believing something they never heard.

Again, Joshua and Caleb did NOT "agree" with their circumstances. Yes, they saw and acknowledged the giants, but they went with what God said, even though the giants looked big and mean. Those with the evil report did "agree" with their circumstance. They saw giants and they forgot that God had given them the land. They disobeyed and disagreed with what God said. As a result, they wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

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Sorry, this just doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said before, Joshua and Caleb trusted that God would do what He said He would do. I am not disputing that. However, there is no need (and no Biblical support) for the idea of agreeing with or not agreeing with 'circumstances.' Circumstances are what they are... God can change them...We have faith in God and know that He can do and does do what He says. There is no need to even think about whether we 'agree' with 'circumstances' ... We believe God no matter what the circumstances are, so no matter how circumstances line up or change, our faith in God should remain the same. Acknowledging circumstances is just acknowledging reality. We also acknowledge the reality of what God has said. Therefore, when circumstances look bad, we also acknowledge that God can do all things, that He has promised such-and-such and we don't doubt God's word, His promises. But we can do all that without ever once having to 'disagree' with 'circumstances.'

A practical example. I've known people that have gone to the doctor and been told that they have terminal cancer. Their circumstances told them that they had weeks to live. They did not deny that cancer existed in their body, but they denied it's right to exist in their body by the stripes that were laid on Jesus' back. They disagreed with the circumstance that said they would be dead in a few weeks and instead agreed with what God said. Those people are alive and well to this day.

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I'm sorry, again, this doesn't make any sense to me. Circumstances are not a person or an opinion to be agreed with or disagreed with. Those people's denial of the cancer's "right to exist in their body" is not a disagreement with circumstances... It's faith that the circumstances will be changed; faith that the cancer would leave.

I think maybe we're just playing a semantics game here, and that you and I don't actually disagree much; but the ramifications of this "calling things that are not as though they are" is very troubling to me. First, because the whole 'catch-phrase' of it is a twisting of Scripture (as it was clearly God who calls things into existence, not anyone else); Second, because it seems to me that regardless of what you call it (either denying reality, or disagreeing with circumstances) it seems obvious to me that to support those ideas, you have to do some pretty serious eisegesis to make the texts fit your theory. The doctrine assumes certain things about the Biblical characters' attitudes, it takes words and phrases out of context (i.e. "evil report") to make it seem like it says something which the context does not suggest. Third, I think it takes the focus off of God and puts it onto our own mental processes. turning it into a pop-psychology/pseudo-New-Age kind of thinking pattern by telling people not to believe (or agree with) reality. By definition circumstances are "The sum of determining factors beyond willful control" We can't control them so there's no reason to either agree or disagree with them. We believe that God can control them... so we Trust in Him. Also, I don't believe we are called upon to 'agree' with God... We believe Him, we have faith in Him. Saying we 'agree' with Him suggests, imo, that His performance of promises is dependent on us, it suggest that if we don't 'agree' with Him, he'll withhold a promise... I believe that if we place our trust in God, he's not going to withhold anything from us because we failed to 'disagree' with our circumstances. He wants us to love Him, trust Him, not play mind games with ourselves over what reality is.

TreeOfLife said:

But wouldn't it be better to question the doctor's skill than to question your mother's faith for healing? (I'm truely not being nasty here Barb, I just don't know any other way to ask the question. If you are offended by the question I will remove it immediately and offer my apologies).

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No offense. She had the best cancer treatment to be had at the time - paid for by insurance. And I would never question my mom's faith for being healed. She KNEW and my brother and sis-in-law prayed for her healing. My mom was nearly 80 years old. She had had a wonderful life. It astounds me today that she clung so hard to a life that I would so willingly give up! Go figure!

I actually had forgotten how much she prayed for healing, wanted healing and knew she would be healed. Of course, to my mind, she has been healed!

p.s. Sorry I took so long to respond - had 2 phone calls!

BarbB said:

No offense. She had the best cancer treatment to be had at the time - paid for by insurance. And I would never question my mom's faith for being healed. She KNEW and my brother and sis-in-law prayed for her healing. My mom was nearly 80 years old. She had had a wonderful life. It astounds me today that she clung so hard to a life that I would so willingly give up! Go figure!

I actually had forgotten how much she prayed for healing, wanted healing and knew she would be healed. Of course, to my mind, she has been healed!

p.s. Sorry I took so long to respond - had 2 phone calls!

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Thank you so much for not taking offense.

80 is pretty good. I hope I can still dance and sing when I'm eighty. There's a lot of young pups that will need to see that!

TreeOfLife said:

Thank you so much for not taking offense.

80 is pretty good. I hope I can still dance and sing when I'm eighty. There's a lot of young pups that will need to see that!

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I hope I'll be meeting you in the air long before you are 80!

BarbB said:

I hope I'll be seeing you in the air long before you are 80!

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No doubt in my mind!