Calling out False Teachers

[rejoiceinfaith]

On Sunday I attended a friend's church to hear a speaker she said is "anointed." His name is Perry Stone. I had not researched him and knew nothing about him. My friend is a strong Christian, so I assumed if she was a supporter of this speaker then he must be legit.

I was very disturbed by what I heard and saw. The first half of Stone's sermon was ok. He spoke of God's truth and quoted from the Bible a few times (not enough in my opinion, but I let it go). But about 30 minutes into his talk, things took a strange turn. A guy in the congregation started yelling unintelligibly and sobbing. It went on for a few minutes and Stone kept preaching, getting louder and more passionate.

A few people went over to the guy to see if he was all right. Meanwhile, Stone began inviting people up front so they could "be filled with the Holy Spirit." This was explained as a prayer Stone would say to people in order for them to be filled with the spirit. Prior to this, he spent about 10 minutes talking about all the languages he had spoken in while filled with the Holy Spirit, how God had enabled him to speak Spanish, Chinese, Portugese and so on at previous speaking engagements.

Most of this rant focused on Stone's seemingly incredible gift of in speaking with people in their native language. He made it seem like he could just call on this "gift" whenever he wanted.

I was very disturbed by all of this, because I know the Word tells us that when we are saved, we are filled with the Holy Spirit. He is always within us, so why would I need to go up front and have this guy pray over me? But scores of people went up front, including a friend I had brought with me!

This is a charismatic church that I've visited a few times, but I've never seem anything like this before. Stone was waving his hands over people and saying, "Be filled with the Spirit!" while also speaking gibberish (which I guess was supposed to "tongues?" But there was no interpreter.

Then to make things worse, the pastor got up at the end and encouraged people to stay as long as they wanted, because sometimes "we just need to feel God. We need to feel his presence strongly, and that's what is happening in this room." All this time the worship group was playing the same refrain of a song over and over again, and the room was dark except for strobe-type lights.

After I got home, my friend texted and asked me what I thought of the service. I waited to reply, because I wanted to pray about it and see what God said. I ended up telling her I was disturbed by what I heard, and I pointed out the error according to scripture in what Stone was saying. She basically did not believe me and said one of her friends was "healed from a cancerous tumor" during this service.

Is it worth saying anything else to my friend or will I just offend her? She is a member of his church.

Does anyone else have any experience with Perry Stone? If I have gotten this wrong, please tell me.

 

[topher694]

Perry Stone is not a false teacher, suggesting so is against the guidelines here.

I have seen him in person as well, and listened to many of his teachings. The guy is brilliant, the only person I've ever seen who can list of genealogies from memory... lol

The gifts of tongues is the "different kinds of tongues". Tongues for interpretation is just one kind. This is why Paul said, in 1 Cor 14:

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Here there are 2 types being talked about. He says we edify ourselves when praying in tongues first - that is individual, but he'd rather us prophesy over tongues, unless he interprets - that is corporate. Unless implies that it isn't mandatory that tongues be interpreted... it is a different kind. Speaking in human languages unknown to the speaker is another kind... they are all in the Bible in various places.

Warning, threads like this tend to blow up and get pretty crazy.

 

[~Zao~]

It’s gossip to speak of another w/o them around to defend themselves. Charismatic forums would be a better forum to take discussions about that (leaving out the name but describing the phenomenon.)

This forum is for learning for "apprentices of Jesus, that they look to Him, listen to Him, obey Him, pray with Him, and trust in Him."

 

[joshua 1 9]

I was very disturbed by all of this, because I know the Word tells us

Everybody says something different. Stone says what he says, you say what you say. It does not matter what man says, the Holy Spirit is to be our comforter, guide and teacher. Even we are told NOT to lean on our own understanding but to trust in God.

 

[Dave L]

On Sunday I attended a friend's church to hear a speaker she said is "anointed." His name is Perry Stone. I had not researched him and knew nothing about him. My friend is a strong Christian, so I assumed if she was a supporter of this speaker then he must be legit.

I was very disturbed by what I heard and saw. The first half of Stone's sermon was ok. He spoke of God's truth and quoted from the Bible a few times (not enough in my opinion, but I let it go). But about 30 minutes into his talk, things took a strange turn. A guy in the congregation started yelling unintelligibly and sobbing. It went on for a few minutes and Stone kept preaching, getting louder and more passionate.

A few people went over to the guy to see if he was all right. Meanwhile, Stone began inviting people up front so they could "be filled with the Holy Spirit." This was explained as a prayer Stone would say to people in order for them to be filled with the spirit. Prior to this, he spent about 10 minutes talking about all the languages he had spoken in while filled with the Holy Spirit, how God had enabled him to speak Spanish, Chinese, Portugese and so on at previous speaking engagements.

Most of this rant focused on Stone's seemingly incredible gift of in speaking with people in their native language. He made it seem like he could just call on this "gift" whenever he wanted.

I was very disturbed by all of this, because I know the Word tells us that when we are saved, we are filled with the Holy Spirit. He is always within us, so why would I need to go up front and have this guy pray over me? But scores of people went up front, including a friend I had brought with me!

This is a charismatic church that I've visited a few times, but I've never seem anything like this before. Stone was waving his hands over people and saying, "Be filled with the Spirit!" while also speaking gibberish (which I guess was supposed to "tongues?" But there was no interpreter.

Then to make things worse, the pastor got up at the end and encouraged people to stay as long as they wanted, because sometimes "we just need to feel God. We need to feel his presence strongly, and that's what is happening in this room." All this time the worship group was playing the same refrain of a song over and over again, and the room was dark except for strobe-type lights.

After I got home, my friend texted and asked me what I thought of the service. I waited to reply, because I wanted to pray about it and see what God said. I ended up telling her I was disturbed by what I heard, and I pointed out the error according to scripture in what Stone was saying. She basically did not believe me and said one of her friends was "healed from a cancerous tumor" during this service.

Is it worth saying anything else to my friend or will I just offend her? She is a member of his church.

Does anyone else have any experience with Perry Stone? If I have gotten this wrong, please tell me.

You might do an internet search on him. I'm a cessationist so I immediately suspect what you were seeing is of an unholy nature.

[update] https://equipblog.wpengine.com/who-is-perry-stone/

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

One of the main identifying factor of a false teacher is covetousness. Perry Stone is a word of faith preacher and they use many true and valid teaching to couch their plea for you so sow a seed of faith in obedience. The set themselves up as mediators between you and the LORD and offer special blessing from God who will pour is out on those who are obedient. Your obedience is linked to you sending them money as a seed of faith to obtain the blessing. The things you saw are not sounding like a Biblical movement of the spirit as all things are to be done decently and in order. You are right to be discerning that all is not Kosher.

 

[rejoiceinfaith]

It’s gossip to speak of another w/o them around to defend themselves. Charismatic forums would be a better forum to take discussions about that (leaving out the name but describing the phenomenon.)

This forum is for learning for "apprentices of Jesus, that they look to Him, listen to Him, obey Him, pray with Him, and trust in Him."

No it is not gossip. I am describing my first-hand experience in seeing Perry Stone and hearing him speak. I'm not repeating information learned from someone else. The Bible warns us to be on the lookout for false teachers, so my question is legitimate.

If you do an internet search, you will see that I'm not the only person who has questioned Perry Stone.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons 1 Timothy 4:1

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2 Timothy 4:3

 

[topher694]

If you do an internet search on ANY public Christian figure you will find people questioning them and calling them out. Heck, if Jesus were on social media today people would be questioning Him.

 

[~Zao~]

It’s gossip to speak of another w/o them around to defend themselves. Charismatic forums would be a better forum to take discussions about that (leaving out the name but describing the phenomenon.)

This forum is for learning for "apprentices of Jesus, that they look to Him, listen to Him, obey Him, pray with Him, and trust in Him."

No it is not gossip. I am describing my first-hand experience in seeing Perry Stone and hearing him speak. I'm not repeating information learned from someone else. The Bible warns us to be on the lookout for false teachers, so my question is legitimate.

If you do an internet search, you will see that I'm not the only person who has questioned Perry Stone.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons 1 Timothy 4:1

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2 Timothy 4:3

Apparently it’s the WOF forum you should be taking this questioning to.

Word of Faith

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON

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Examples of inflammatory words/phrases (including but not limited to): idolaters, false/different/other gospel, false prophet, false doctrine, heretics, blasphemers, evil, sheep in wolves clothing, different God, antichrists, Antichrist, cannibalism/cannibal (concerning Eucharist), Judaizer.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Mathetes66]

I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I went for the first time to a crusade of a well known Christian, asking the Lord for discernment by His Spirit. The first thing that happened was envelopes were passed to everyone & baskets to put your envelope in with your money. No word was said prior to this about what was happening. This was the first check in my spirit.

Luke 12:15 And He said to them, “Watch out! Guard yourselves against every form of greed, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

Second, strange things began happening in the audience around me, before anything was done on the stage: yelling incoherently, then laughing uncontrollably, showing things were not being done decently & in order.

I could mention other things, but my friend, who encouraged me to go and asked me what I thought, I told him honestly that something was not right in these things.

Another thing is one knows a false prophet by the fact that they give prophesy in the name of the Lord & it DOES NOT COME TO PASS.

Deut 18:20-22 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death. You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?”

When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD & the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 14:14 "The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.

Jer 23:16 This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are filling you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

There are mixed reports on evangelist Perry Stone. Here is a local newspaper report on him.

Million-dollar ministry: How Cleveland evangelist Perry Stone built a ministry empire

Here is another who deals with his prophecies.

start at minute 19:00 on Perry Stone

Practice spiritual discernment.

 

[Hazelelponi]

To the OP:

The Bible tells you to use discernment and to test the spirits.

Church and Sermons have specific purposes, so ask yourself these questions.

Did you hear the Gospel (the Good News) preached or taught? (Mark 16:15)

Did you walk away with a message of hope and encouragement from the Scriptures to help you in your Christian walk? (1 Timothy 4:13)

Did you learn anything? (2 Timothy 3:16)

Did those who gained this outpouring spirit during this service do so to enable them to preach the Word of God to the lost? (Acts 1:8) Was that mentioned or taught as the reason for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

Was any reason given or was the entirety of the service a display of the emotions of human beings? (2 Timothy 2:2)

I think you know the truth of it.. put these things behind you, and do as the Lord your God calls you to do.

Matthew 10:14

 

[topher694]

Another thing is one knows a false prophet by the fact that they give prophesy in the name of the Lord & it DOES NOT COME TO PASS.

Deut 18:20-22 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death. You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?”

When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD & the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 14:14 "The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.

Jer 23:16 This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are filling you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

You are applying these scriptures narrowly and throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are an abundance of examples of legitimate prophesies in the Bible that strictly speaking did not come to pass.

A great example is Jonah. Here we have a immature, angry prophet who, when he finally releases his word prophesies destruction to Nineveh within 40 days. That doesn't end up happening. The people of Nineveh fast and repent and they are not destroyed. By your standard Jonah would be a false prophet, yet he is not, because repentance is always God's best. People can accept or reject a prophetic word which affects the outcome, but doesn't change God's will. What if the people of Nineveh had not repented and the city had been destroyed. Then the word would have been accurate as well. However, what if they had not repented and the city had NOT been destroyed... THEN it would be a false prophesy.

Same with the children of Israel in the wilderness. God told them (prophesy) that they would enter the promised land in (I believe) weeks. They did not hold up their end of the bargain, so they had to wait 40 years. God amended His prophesy based on their response which caused it to be delayed... a delayed prophesy is still a true prophesy. But, under your standard Moses would be a false prophet as well.

What if a prophet releases a prophetic word today that there is going to be a terrorist attack of some kind within a month and calls people to prayer. People see that word and begin to strongly pray and intercede and the attack is foiled (whether we know about it or not) is that an accurate word? Did it accomplish what God wanted or not?

Now in that same scenario if the prophet does NOT call people to prayer and is just attempting to demonstrate how accurate "their gift" is. I would say then we have something to consider. But before I even go to false - which implies intentional deceit - I'm first going to consider if someone is A) immature or B) made a mistake (which doesn't make them false)

 

[Mathetes66]

"Same with the children of Israel in the wilderness. God told them (prophesy) that they would enter the promised land in (I believe) weeks. They did not hold up their end of the bargain, so they had to wait 40 years. God amended His prophesy based on their response which caused it to be delayed."

Any mature Christian understands what you say concerning CONDITIONS God Himself places on His Word. Now you are making God a false prophet!
This show the fallacious argument you are trying to make. Nothing more need to be said to those who are mature & understand Scripture and apply it properly.

What does all this have to do with Perry Stone?

 

[topher694]

"Same with the children of Israel in the wilderness. God told them (prophesy) that they would enter the promised land in (I believe) weeks. They did not hold up their end of the bargain, so they had to wait 40 years. God amended His prophesy based on their response which caused it to be delayed."

Any mature Christian understands what you say concerning CONDITIONS God Himself places on His Word. Now you are making God a false prophet!
This show the fallacious argument you are trying to make. Nothing more need to be said to those who are mature & understand Scripture and apply it properly.

What does all this have to do with Perry Stone?

What in the world are you talking about?

Prophesy is God's word, so the conditions are His, not the prophet's. That's the entire point.

By your own standard yours is the argument that is fallacious because you are not applying scripture properly or consistently.

Another thing is one knows a false prophet by the fact that they give prophesy in the name of the Lord & it DOES NOT COME TO PASS.

This statement does not leave place for the "CONDITIONS God Himself places on His Word" That is all I am saying.


This has little to do with Perry, only the standards you seem to be applying to everyone, including him.

 

[Mathetes66]

Again I repeat your argument is fallacious because you use examples of God's prophecy with conditions but God also makes prophecies without conditions and one of those is a key one that most all Bible scholars use to determine if a prophet is speaking the truth from God Himself or the prophet is not.

And I will speak no more of this matter. God bless you.

 

[topher694]

Again I repeat your argument is fallacious because you use examples of God's prophecy with conditions but God also makes prophecies without conditions and one of those is a key one that most all Bible scholars use to determine if a prophet is speaking the truth from God Himself or the prophet is not.

And I will speak no more of this matter. God bless you.

Read closer. I covered both. You didn't.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I was very disturbed by all of this, because I know the Word tells us that when we are saved, we are filled with the Holy Spirit. He is always within us, so why would I need to go up front and have this guy pray over me? But scores of people went up front, including a friend I had brought with me!

1)Having the Holy Spirit does not mean self sufficiency in Christ. You are still part of a Body of Christ Romans 12:5,1 Corinthians 12:12–27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and Colossians 1:24. You need to come forward to allow other Christians to use their gifts etc. to help you. And this part of the Economy of God. God is not just looking for a bunch of sanctified individuals but a family and a nation that will represent Him to the World.


("The economy of God" is a quotation from 1 Timothy 1:4, according to the Greek. Economy is the Greek word "oikonomia", which primarily signifies the household management, the household administration, arrangement and distribution, or dispensation.[1][page needed] The word "economy" is used with the intention of stressing the focal point of God's divine enterprise, which is to distribute, or dispense, Himself into man.[2])

The Economy of God - Wikipedia


2) This is part of liturgical tradition of Judaism that has been retained in Christianity and is even seen in the Bible. The temple may have been destroyed in AD 70, but some aspects of that still live in on including when it comes to this sort of thing. This is not something that many Protestants will like but it is true. The earthly tabernacle was a copy of the one in heaven (Heb 8:5). Furthermore there is ceremonial worship going on in heaven today per the book of Revelation and the various heavenly visions of the OT prophets like Ezekiel etc.

 

[pdudgeon]

On Sunday I attended a friend's church to hear a speaker she said is "anointed." His name is Perry Stone. I had not researched him and knew nothing about him. My friend is a strong Christian, so I assumed if she was a supporter of this speaker then he must be legit.

I was very disturbed by what I heard and saw. The first half of Stone's sermon was ok. He spoke of God's truth and quoted from the Bible a few times (not enough in my opinion, but I let it go). But about 30 minutes into his talk, things took a strange turn. A guy in the congregation started yelling unintelligibly and sobbing. It went on for a few minutes and Stone kept preaching, getting louder and more passionate.

A few people went over to the guy to see if he was all right. Meanwhile, Stone began inviting people up front so they could "be filled with the Holy Spirit." This was explained as a prayer Stone would say to people in order for them to be filled with the spirit. Prior to this, he spent about 10 minutes talking about all the languages he had spoken in while filled with the Holy Spirit, how God had enabled him to speak Spanish, Chinese, Portugese and so on at previous speaking engagements.

Most of this rant focused on Stone's seemingly incredible gift of in speaking with people in their native language. He made it seem like he could just call on this "gift" whenever he wanted.

I was very disturbed by all of this, because I know the Word tells us that when we are saved, we are filled with the Holy Spirit. He is always within us, so why would I need to go up front and have this guy pray over me? But scores of people went up front, including a friend I had brought with me!

This is a charismatic church that I've visited a few times, but I've never seem anything like this before. Stone was waving his hands over people and saying, "Be filled with the Spirit!" while also speaking gibberish (which I guess was supposed to "tongues?" But there was no interpreter.

Then to make things worse, the pastor got up at the end and encouraged people to stay as long as they wanted, because sometimes "we just need to feel God. We need to feel his presence strongly, and that's what is happening in this room." All this time the worship group was playing the same refrain of a song over and over again, and the room was dark except for strobe-type lights.

After I got home, my friend texted and asked me what I thought of the service. I waited to reply, because I wanted to pray about it and see what God said. I ended up telling her I was disturbed by what I heard, and I pointed out the error according to scripture in what Stone was saying. She basically did not believe me and said one of her friends was "healed from a cancerous tumor" during this service.

Is it worth saying anything else to my friend or will I just offend her? She is a member of his church.

Does anyone else have any experience with Perry Stone? If I have gotten this wrong, please tell me.

 

[pdudgeon]

If you have not been to a Charismatic Church before, then yes, what you saw would be new and different to you. That's understandable.

It probably would have been much better if your friend had invited you to a regular service first, rather than to have dumped you into the middle of a revival service as your first experience. Sorry about that.

My advice would be to go back to the church one more time, (during a regular service) before you form an opinion.