California court declares it's illegal to assist minors struggling with LGBT

[Philip_B]

The sad thing about legal decisions is that they are about affecting the lives of real people. A friend of mine is a parent of a TG child, and to my mind does an outstanding job of something that I believe is one of the harder things that people have to address. I don't see how forcing the child to be something other that what she is will do anything other than help someone fail to reach their potential. The only thing you can really be best at being is yourself. I can see why the court wants to rule that way, I just don't think they have thought it all through. Probably because we do not ask or answer the right questions. If anyone thinks this stuff is easy, then you have not been close enough to people struggling with this. As people who are members of an incarnational faith community we above all people should be sharing with the struggle, not standing in judgement.

 

[rambot]

That's what I expected. Thank you. Your alleged extensive hermeneutical understanding is void.
You post the affirmative then you excuse why you can't show the scripture that give you license to say God approves.
Then in rebuttal you challenge what I'd know about hermeneutics in order to challenge your unsubstantiated claim. While invoking rules that you think tell you you can't share Bible scripture here.

That's a long post. There have been numerous threads shut down on this very topic in the news and current events section since I have been here. You are welcome to think I am trying to duck and cover and I have no interest in waiting for you to read the rules. As I said, I will happily engage in a private message discussion though I don't expect that either. I am not affraid to share my understanding of biblical passages; I just try to follow the rules of the place where I am sharing them. If I'm mistaken and a mod could come here and clarify for me, I'll happily explain it here.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Treat them no different than any other sinners in need of Christ and quit trying to "pray the gay away". We all struggle with something.

Odd turn of phrase when Christianity includes renouncing our sins and praying for God's assistance when we struggle.

I neither know nor have heard of anyone that has stopped having same-sex attraction. People stop identifying as gay? Sure, I've heard of several, but like I said, if it's in an "ex-gay" testimony they're careful to avoid the issue of whether or not they were still attracted towards the same sex.

Each probably has a personal experience with ex-homosexuals
Interestingly enough they can face a great amount of intolerance from the homosexual community.

 

[CodyFaith]

I wasn't hostile. I asked you why you'd invoke the second coming after giving your opinion about this topic.

You didn't ask that at all. You said,
"Why? So He can kill all the people you disagree with?"

Suggesting I look forward to the coming of my God because of petty revenge on people who I disagree with.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

You didn't ask that at all. You said,
"Why? So He can kill all the people you disagree with?"

Suggesting I look forward to the coming of my God because of petty revenge on people who I disagree with.

The context of your invocation and after your remarks leads to that. You do know what happens when Christ returns as you invoked don't you?

 

[CodyFaith]

The context of your invocation and after your remarks leads to that. You do know what happens when Christ returns as you invoked don't you?

Perhaps you should read into things/judge things with less intensity.

It simply was a "come Lord Jesus" in the sense that I await Christ's return, to rid the world of all evil, for his will to be done, etc.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Odd turn of phrase when Christianity includes renouncing our sins and praying for God's assistance when we struggle.

There's a difference between renouncing sin and praying for assistance in struggles, and forcing people to change against their will. I have no issue if parents pray in silence for their children to turn straight, nor do I have an issue if a gay teens pray in silence to become straight. I do have an issue when that changed is forced upon them. We cannot force people to come to Christ, at best it does nothing, at worst it turns them away from Christ forever.

Each probably has a personal experience with ex-homosexuals

Perhaps.

Interestingly enough they can face a great amount of intolerance from the homosexual community.

I have heard this before.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

There's a difference between renouncing sin and praying for assistance in struggles, and forcing people to change against their will. I have no issue if parents pray in silence for their children to turn straight, nor do I have an issue if a gay teens pray in silence to become straight. I do have an issue when that changed is forced upon them. We cannot force people to come to Christ, at best it does nothing, at worst it turns them away from Christ forever.

Not the topic. Forcing people to come to Christ.

Perhaps.

OK

I have heard this before.

You doubt it?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Perhaps you should read into things/judge things with less intensity.

It simply was a "come Lord Jesus" in the sense that I await Christ's return, to rid the world of all evil, for his will to be done, etc.

Yes, I got that.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Not the topic. Forcing people to come to Christ.

We agree that it is bad to force people to come to Christ, so why is it okay to force people to turn from sin? We're not talking about a youth pastor having a discussion with a member of the youth group about where his/her life is headed, we're talking about "conversion therapy". Here are the kinds of things that happen in modern conversion therapy: Children blaming their parents for their homosexuality, telling people to distance themselves from close friends because they're the wrong gender (having female friends as a gay guy or guy friends as a lesbian), fear mongering, encouraging shame, negative self-talk and even asking a young person to defile themselves to "get back in touch with their masculinity." It's not just some support group where they all encourage each other to "keep fighting" and pray for each other.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

We agree that it is bad to force people to come to Christ, so why is it okay to force people to turn from sin? We're not talking about a youth pastor having a discussion with a member of the youth group about where his/her life is headed, we're talking about "conversion therapy". Here are the kinds of things that happen in modern conversion therapy: Children blaming their parents for their homosexuality, telling people to distance themselves from close friends because they're the wrong gender (having female friends as a gay guy or guy friends as a lesbian), fear mongering, encouraging shame, negative self-talk and even asking a young person to defile themselves to "get back in touch with their masculinity." It's not just some support group where they all encourage each other to "keep fighting" and pray for each other.

As I said before, it is advised people read the court decision rather than go off what others claim or what a media outlet synopsizes.

 

[samir]

As I understand it though, CF does not tolerate any real discussion on the theological underpinnings of the "homosexual issue".

The morality of it is not allowed to be discussed on this forum but it is allowed in the congregation forums.

 

[Widlast]

No surprises here, California being the hotbed of perversion and insanity that it is.
The reason this drivel is being pushed is that the Powers That Be are quite fond of the LGBT movement.
The LGBTs do not breed, tend to be very liberal/progressive, and have no qualms about worshiping at the altar of State Power. They are exactly the kind of sheeple needed for the New World Order that the Powers are wanting to implement in the next decade or so.

 

[SnowyMacie]

As I said before, it is advised people read the court decision rather than go off what others claim or what a media outlet synopsizes.

I'm not talking about the court decision here, I'm talking about what really happens in this kind of therapy. There is a reason why Exodus International has stopped doing it and apologized.

 

[brinny]

Praying for California.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I'm not talking about the court decision here, I'm talking about what really happens in this kind of therapy. There is a reason why Exodus International has stopped doing it and apologized.

Exodus stopped because its founder decided to revert to his former self.

And we need to move beyond the so called reparative therapy here and move on to Christian counseling against sin. Which is something that should concern the church when those who say they are part of it argue this particular couple of sins are of little importance to letting those in it continue without option.

 

[rambot]

The LGBTs do not breed

Really? Tell that to several of my gay friends who have used invitro.

, tend to be very liberal/progressive,

Well, we don't hate them/push them away/stand in judgement of them. Doesn't that seem like a better starting point at bringing someone to God?

and have no qualms about worshiping at the altar of State Power.

I don't think they worship at that alter. I think that they have not received the compassion, and consideration from any large institutions (historically, the church included), that they now have ONE institution that will help them, yes, they do have a greater affinity for it.

They are exactly the kind of sheeple needed for the New World Order that the Powers are wanting to implement in the next decade or so.

Ahhhh sheeple. There is nothing more "sheeple" like than being stuck identifying as something that 40% of the population derides.

 

[rambot]

Exodus stopped because its founder decided to revert to his former self.

And we need to move beyond the so called reparative therapy here and move on to Christian counseling against sin. Which is something that should concern the church when those who say they are part of it argue this particular couple of sins are of little importance to letting those in it continue without option.

And if you don't believe that homosexuality is a choice, how can it be a sin?


"if a person is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge"? -Pope Frank.

If the pope says that, what is stopping you?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

And if you don't believe that homosexuality is a choice, how can it be a sin?


"if a person is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge"? -Pope Frank.

If the pope says that, what is stopping you?

Frank's opinion doesn't supersede that of God.

 

[rambot]

God or Yours?