California Christian Baker Wins Discrimination Lawsuit

[JimR-OCDS]

Deleted

 

[Hank77]

42 U.S. Code § 2000a - Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation

Why are you quoting the law I already quoted? What is your point?

(a) Equal access


All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

 

[Hank77]

Yes, the baker Phillips.
He made news refusing to make a rainbow birthday cake for a little girls party.

Well, it wasn't very big news, there was no lawsuit.

that the bakery doesn't have a problem putting rainbows on the outside of a cake, but that they will not do a rainbow-themed layer cake on the inside

It's very likely this style of cake is another style he cannot offer because some LGBTQ person asked to make that style of cake to celebrate LGBTQ and he refused just as he can no longer make wedding cakes.

There's a misunderstanding in some cases as to the SCOTUS decision in the Masterpiece cake shop ruling as well.

There is no misunderstanding here I followed this case very closely. This thread is not about this case or the SCOTUS and their ruling in this case.

 

[WintersDust]

Why are you quoting the law I already quoted? What is your point?

(a) Equal access


All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

You apparently didn't understand the law you copied and pasted when you claimed there's no law that protects the rights of LGBTQ in public accommodation.

 

[WintersDust]

You have it backwards. It's not Christians who are forcing their beliefs onto homosexuals, but homosexuals and transactivist who are forcing their beliefs
onto Christians. Society at one time held Judeo/Christian moral values. Those
moral values are being rejected by the leftist WOKE ideology and hence, will
ultimately destroy our nation.

I sound pessimistic I know, but as a history buff, I've seen this playout time and time again over the course of history. Nations that embrace immorality, destroy themselves.

No, I don't have it backwards. The civil rights battles in this country have always been waged against a Christian idea that discrimination against a class of persons is righteous.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

No, I don't have it backwards. The civil rights battles in this country have always been waged against a Christian idea that discrimination against a class of persons is righteous.

Is discrimination always wrong in every instance?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Is discrimination always wrong in every instance?

Yes

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yes

Are you sure about this answer? Discrimination, no matter the context, no matter who it is against is wrong?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Are you sure about this answer? Discrimination, no matter the context, no matter who it is against is wrong?

100% of the time. Always.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

100% of the time. Always.

Do you consider it wrong for the Catholic Church to have it's discriminatory position on marriage? That it only sanctions marriage between men and women? Or what about governments which prefer male candidates as soldiers for the military?

 

[WintersDust]

Discrimination: Treatment or consideration based on class or category, such as race or gender, rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Discrimination: Treatment or consideration based on class or category, such as race or gender, rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice.

I'm not going to contest that definition. I will however point out Christianity has historically discriminated against people based on gender and class. Women for instance cannot become priests and homosexuals will not have their marriages recognized by Christians. Christians also don't accept polygamy as a valid form of marriage and so don't recognize any wife except the first. As have many nations. Consider the Nation of Israel which is a Jewish nation with a policy that any Jew can become a citizen. They do not offer that to non-Jews. The reason for the discrimination is clear

Is discrimination wrong in all of these cases?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Do you consider it wrong for the Catholic Church to have it's discriminatory position on marriage? That it only sanctions marriage between men and women? Or what about governments which prefer male candidates as soldiers for the military?

That's not discrimination. By definition, discrimination has to be "unjustified", or "unfair" treatment of someone based on prejudice.

 

[Tuur]

No, I don't have it backwards. The civil rights battles in this country have always been waged against a Christian idea that discrimination against a class of persons is righteous.

Interesting. By your premise, those who persecute Christians are themselves Christians. That would have come as a shock to Diocletian. It would have also come as a shock to ministers who participated in the Civil Rights struggle, for by your premise, they wouldn't have been Christians.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

That's not discrimination. By definition, discrimination has to be "unjustified", or "unfair" treatment of someone based on prejudice.

What's unfair? What's unjustified? That presumes a value system. If for instance you are an egalitarian and believe men and women are equal in all respects, how is denying women the priesthood justified? It isn't. Is also not unfair to judge women, just because they are physically weaker and prevent them from having an equal place in the armed forces?

Discrimination when you come down to it is to make distinctions. We all do it and no nation, no society has ever been free of discrimination in one form or another. It all depends on the type of society you want to build.

 

[WintersDust]

Interesting. By your premise, those who persecute Christians are themselves Christians. That would have come as a shock to Diocletian. It would have also come as a shock to ministers who participated in the Civil Rights struggle, for by your premise, they wouldn't have been Christians.

Never said they wouldn't be Christians.

Now all these years later we have Christians who think Civil Rights should not apply to one class of persons.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What's unfair? What's unjustified? That presumes a value system. If for instance you are an egalitarian and believe men and women are equal in all respects, how is denying women the priesthood justified? It isn't. Is also not unfair to judge women, just because they are physically weaker and prevent them from having an equal place in the armed forces?



Discrimination when you come down to it is to make distinctions. We all do it and no nation, no society has ever been free of discrimination in one form or another. It all depends on the type of society you want to build.

Is your point that we should discriminate freely, and as often as possible?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Is your point that we should discriminate freely, and as often as possible?

My point is that you cannot avoid a society wherein discrimination doesn't exist. Wintersdust is an example of this. He said I should have no place in America, he does not want me there, he says I should never come. I notice this sort of criticism commonly, I should leave my own country apparently and live in the Middle East. This is a discriminatory attitude against traditionally minded Christians and it makes a certain sense if you want to preserve a totally secular idea of the USA or any country.

We want two radically different societies. I want to see society adhere to Christian values more broadly. Where bakers don't have to make homosexual wedding cakes. Others do not and think egalitarian liberal values are the way to go and the baker must be compelled or be destroyed. Both are discriminatory views and both would use power.

What confuses me is the Christian opposition to fellow Christians and instead act in the interests of a society that can only hurt Christians in the long term if you continue to go down that path.

 

[Landon Caeli]

My point is that you cannot avoid a society wherein discrimination doesn't exist. Wintersdust is an example of this. He said I should have no place in America, he does not want me there, he says I should never come. I notice this sort of criticism commonly, I should leave my own country apparently and live in the Middle East. This is a discriminatory attitude against traditionally minded Christians and it makes a certain sense if you want to preserve a totally secular idea of the USA or any country.































We want two radically different societies. I want to see society adhere to Christian values more broadly. Where bakers don't have to make homosexual wedding cakes. Others do not and think egalitarian liberal values are the way to go and the baker must be compelled or be destroyed. Both are discriminatory views and both would use power.































What confuses me is the Christian opposition to fellow Christians and instead act in the interests of a society that can only hurt Christians in the long term if you continue to go down that path.

Can I assume then, that in your view, it is fine and good for a Christian to discriminate freely, and as often as one pleases? Without restraint..?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Can I assume then, that in your view, it is fine and good to discriminate freely, and as often as one pleases? Without restraint..?

I just told you my view. You can't escape discrimination. You can't have a perfectly egalitarian society where everyone is equal and everyone is treated the same way. If you have a society which tolerates blasphemy (and considers it a positive good thing to do in order to demonstrate freedom) you will have a less religious society, because the divine is treated as a joke, something not worthy of protecting in law or custom. if you have a society which does not tolerate blasphemy then you will have a society which is more religious, because the divine is sacred and inviolable.

No one discriminates arbitrarily, they do so on the basis of principles and beliefs. Wintersdust is an ardent secularist. He seems to believe in the total supremacy of the secular state over religious attitudes. Certain religious attitudes have no place in his society (such as not affirming LGBT).