Cain and Lamech

[TamaraLynne]

What part of this forum would be best for discussing the Genesis scriptures?

 

[LaSpino3]

Tamara, "We know Cain killed his brother Able. God cast Cain away; He said to him "Now are you cursed from the earth. Gen.4:12, "A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

Cain was Adam's firstborn who became a murderer; a liar, and cursed by God. We are told that Able’s blood cried unto the Lord from the ground. Cain seems to have had little sense of value concerning God’s presence, or of public worship; yet to be excluded from its external rites was considered as a heavy punishment for Cain. But this would be the punishment for Cain, for he said to God, “My punishment is greater than I can bear!” It appears Cain felt more for the misery to come than for his guilt.

Gen.4:16, Cain said to God, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth." Fugitive meaning he had to leave the area of Eden, vagabond meaning to become a wanderer.

The first thing Cain did was to build a city in the land of Nod, Nod meaning land of wandering. He called the city after his son, Enoch. I would suppose Cain had a great deal of influence and power in this city established by him.

Ver.19, Lamech, Cain's son "Took unto him two wives."

Ver.23, Lamech said, "Ye wives (plural) of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain (killed) a man." Compare with “The sons of God – took them wives of all which they chose,” this being contrary to God commanding a man to have one wife.

Lamech’s wife Adah bare as son called Jabal who was the father of those that dwell in tents, and who raised cattle. Zillah Cain’s second wife had a son Tubal-cain who worked with metals.

From his name Tubal-cain arose the name of Vulcan, the god of smiths. Lamech's sister's name was Naamah. From her may have sprung the character of Venus. Naamah name signifies beautiful! This may also have been the beginning of idol worship. “Every imagination of the thoughts of his (man’s) heart was only evil continually.

Your thought's

Phil LaSpino

 

[TamaraLynne]

Tamara, "We know Cain killed his brother Able. God cast Cain away; He said to him "Now are you cursed from the earth. Gen.4:12, "A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

Cain was Adam's firstborn who became a murderer; a liar, and cursed by God. We are told that Able’s blood cried unto the Lord from the ground. Cain seems to have had little sense of value concerning God’s presence, or of public worship; yet to be excluded from its external rites was considered as a heavy punishment for Cain. But this would be the punishment for Cain, for he said to God, “My punishment is greater than I can bear!” It appears Cain felt more for the misery to come than for his guilt.

Gen.4:16, Cain said to God, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth." Fugitive meaning he had to leave the area of Eden, vagabond meaning to become a wanderer.

The first thing Cain did was to build a city in the land of Nod, Nod meaning land of wandering. He called the city after his son, Enoch. I would suppose Cain had a great deal of influence and power in this city established by him.

Ver.19, Lamech, Cain's son "Took unto him two wives."

Ver.23, Lamech said, "Ye wives (plural) of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain (killed) a man." Compare with “The sons of God – took them wives of all which they chose,” this being contrary to God commanding a man to have one wife.

Lamech’s wife Adah bare as son called Jabal who was the father of those that dwell in tents, and who raised cattle. Zillah Cain’s second wife had a son Tubal-cain who worked with metals.

From his name Tubal-cain arose the name of Vulcan, the god of smiths. Lamech's sister's name was Naamah. From her may have sprung the character of Venus. Naamah name signifies beautiful! This may also have been the beginning of idol worship. “Every imagination of the thoughts of his (man’s) heart was only evil continually.

Your thought's

Phil LaSpino

As far as the two wives thing i do not see that as being refered to as a sin but the murder was the sin...also many many people in the bible took two wives or even more...and it was tolerated...look at Jacob...

I've noticed that in the line of Seth and Cain we have people doing things that God overlooks....why was not Lamech punished like Cain was?

 

[LaSpino3]

Tamara wrote, "As far as the two wives thing i do not see that as being refered to as a sin but the murder was the sin...also many many people in the bible took two wives or even more...and it was tolerated...look at Jacob...

I've noticed that in the line of Seth and Cain we have people doing things that God overlooks....why was not Lamech punished like Cain was?"

Phil replies, "Sin when taken to its foundation means being disobedient toward God. God said to Adam, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother (this refering to all the sons of Adam) and shall cleave (means to adhere, to glue oneself to) unto his (the man) wife (singular.) More than one wife is to disobay God.

This is what Lamech did, he was a bigamist. Lamech and all his sons and daughters died in the flood. Also all men have suffered under the curse which pronounced physical and spiritual death to all men born of the flesh. God does not overlook sin! He is patient, From the time of Noah, He gave mankind 120 years to repent before He took His Holy Spirit away from this earth before he destroyed it.

Phil LaSpino

 

[TamaraLynne]

Tamara wrote, "As far as the two wives thing i do not see that as being refered to as a sin but the murder was the sin...also many many people in the bible took two wives or even more...and it was tolerated...look at Jacob...

I've noticed that in the line of Seth and Cain we have people doing things that God overlooks....why was not Lamech punished like Cain was?"

Phil replies, "Sin when taken to its foundation means being disobedient toward God. God said to Adam, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother (this refering to all the sons of Adam) and shall cleave (means to adhere, to glue oneself to) unto his (the man) wife (singular.) More than one wife is to disobay God.

This is what Lamech did, he was a bigamist. Lamech and all his sons and daughters died in the flood. Also all men have suffered under the curse which pronounced physical and spiritual death to all men born of the flesh. God does not overlook sin! He is patient, From the time of Noah, He gave mankind 120 years to repent before He took His Holy Spirit away from this earth before he destroyed it.

Phil LaSpino

I'll have to think a bit on this one...

 

[TamaraLynne]

one more question for today...why is Lamech and what he says refered to as a song of swords? does a song need to be looked at differently or in a special way?

 

[TamaraLynne]

Is it the first song in the bible?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

What part of this forum would be best for discussing the Genesis scriptures?

What about them?
The poster who first responded got it wrong on Cain wandering in a land named wandering. Nod means wandering and he went out from the presence of the LORD at the gates of Eden where sacrifices were brought. He did not go out from Eden, for that is where Adam got cast down from and out of the Garden from to the earth below.
Eden is God's Holy Mount, and is not presently seen by the eyes of man, but it is there, and veiled to our eyes unless God opens them like He did for Elisha's servant.

He went wandering...but later settled down and built a city, naming it after his son, which son's name means dedicated.

As far as Lamech goes, what is it you want to discuss?
His killing a man was an accident and upon discovering it was Cain instead of game, by his poor eyesight, he accidently killed his son.
It is written in the history.
Jasher Chapter 2 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887

26

And Lamech was old and advanced in years, and his eyes were dim that he could not see, and Tubal Cain, his son, was leading him and it was one day that Lamech went into the field and Tubal Cain his son was with him, and whilst they were walking in the field, Cain the son of Adam advanced towards them; for Lamech was very old and could not see much, and Tubal Cain his son was very young.
27

And Tubal Cain told his father to draw his bow, and with the arrows he smote Cain, who was yet far off, and he slew him, for he appeared to them to be an animal.
28

And the arrows entered Cain's body although he was distant from them, and he fell to the ground and died.
29

And the Lord requited Cain's evil according to his wickedness, which he had done to his brother Abel, according to the word of the Lord which he had spoken.
30

And it came to pass when Cain had died, that Lamech and Tubal went to see the animal which they had slain, and they saw, and behold Cain their grandfather was fallen dead upon the earth.
31

And Lamech was very much grieved at having done this, and in clapping his hands together he struck his son and caused his death.
32

And the wives of Lamech heard what Lamech had done, and they sought to kill him.
33

And the wives of Lamech hated him from that day, because he slew Cain and Tubal Cain, and the wives of Lamech separated from him, and would not hearken to him in those days.
34

And Lamech came to his wives, and he pressed them to listen to him about this matter.
35

And he said to his wives Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice O wives of Lamech, attend to my words, for now you have imagined and said that I slew a man with my wounds, and a child with my stripes for their having done no violence, but surely know that I am old and grey-headed, and that my eyes are heavy through age, and I did this thing unknowingly.
36

And the wives of Lamech listened to him in this matter, and they returned to him with the advice of their father Adam, but they bore no children to him from that time, knowing that God's anger was increasing in those days against the sons of men, to destroy them with the waters of the flood for their evil doings.

 

[TamaraLynne]

What about them?
The poster who first responded got it wrong on Cain wandering in a land named wandering. Nod means wandering and he went out from the presence of the LORD at the gates of Eden where sacrifices were brought. He did not go out from Eden, for that is where Adam got cast down from and out of the Garden from to the earth below.
Eden is God's Holy Mount, and is not presently seen by the eyes of man, but it is there, and veiled to our eyes unless God opens them like He did for Elisha's servant.

He went wandering...but later settled down and built a city, naming it after his son, which son's name means dedicated.

As far as Lamech goes, what is it you want to discuss?
His killing a man was an accident and upon discovering it was Cain instead of game, by his poor eyesight, he accidently killed his son.
It is written in the history.
Jasher Chapter 2 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887

Wow! First I looked for the book of Jasher and then checked if it is mentioned in the bible and it is

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of JASHER? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2sa 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of JASHER.)


This is new to me...something I have not heard of...just like enoch is mentioned but it is not in the bible..how many books are mentioned that are not in the bible?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Wow! First I looked for the book of Jasher and then checked if it is mentioned in the bible and it is

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of JASHER? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2sa 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of JASHER.)


This is new to me...something I have not heard of...just like enoch is mentioned but it is not in the bible..how many books are mentioned that are not in the bible?

Depends on whose Bible....Bible: Whose Canon? Which Bible?
Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Protestant Geneva Bible of the 1500's and King James Bible of 1611, or modern King James Bible, or many other different groups' "bibles"...
The history book, called Book of the Upright or Upright Record/ Jasher is not in any of them, but was in the Hebrew collection of manuscripts but got lost to the Jews after the temple was burned in 70 AD, cause Josephus said it was in the manuscripts in the temple....the real book of Jasher which I gave you a link to was translated in the 1600's to English, and its history of who had it I am not sure of....but it correlates with the Torah and does not contradict it like the pseudo Jashers out there.

For the record, the Book of Jasher is in my collection of books and I use it as authentic history, not as "Thus saith YHWH".


Enoch is in the Ehtiopian Orthodox Bible canon.

 

[LaSpino3]

Tamara, The book of Jaher mentioned in Joshua and Samuel were lost, and if we cannot describe it, it is of no consequence. Jasher means "the upright" and according to the Hebrew idiom, may very, but can be understood to mean "upright or authentic records, or Chronicles." Most likely those of the High Priest from which most of the O.T. history was compiled.

The book of Jasher published in 17th or 18th century is an apocryphal work, intended to impose on those ready to believe anything and the foolish. It trys to sap the credit ofrom the books of Moses, and to blacken the character of Moses himself. It pretends to be a translation of the ancient record, mentioned in Josh.10:13, and 2 Sam.1:18, but is one of the most clumsy and impudent frogeries that ever were attempted to be passed off on the public.

There are over 2000 uninspired books that were not used in the Bible. Forget that garbage, the Bible is enough!

Phil

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Wow! First I looked for the book of Jasher and then checked if it is mentioned in the bible and it is

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of JASHER? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2sa 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of JASHER.)


This is new to me...something I have not heard of...just like enoch is mentioned but it is not in the bible..how many books are mentioned that are not in the bible?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/anonymous/jasher/real.htm

It is true history and it is "The Upright Record" and the above poster is full of his own opinion, but he is not trustworthy on what is true history or not....and many more learned men than he has ever met or known have authenticated "the Upright Record" that I gave a link to....there are pseudo Jashers as there are pseudo gospels, but the link I gave corroborates with the Genesis record -though some make up lies for the gullible to believe if they do not do their own proving for themselves..
Anyway, if you like history, which I do, then you will love the "real book of Jasher".