Ca public schools can't suspend students for disobeying teachers

[Mountainmanbob]

California public schools can't suspend students for disobeying teachers

CALIFORNIA (WTHR) — A new law in California will impact schools across the state.

The law says that it's illegal for public schools to suspend students in first through fifth grade who intentionally defy teachers or administrators.

 

[hedrick]

Right. But it's worth finding out more details. The law doesn't end suspension. It removes one specific cause for suspension, "defiance." Records convinced many that this was too vague, and that it was being used for minor offenses, and too often affected minorities. Disruptive students can be removed from the classroom, just not suspended unless they've done something that still merits suspension. Suspension still applies for violence, theft, use of drugs, etc.

California expands ban on 'willful defiance' suspensions in schools

 

[Mountainmanbob]

If the school suspends a child they lose State brownie points.
M-Bob

 

[Albion]

Disruptive students can be removed from the classroom, just not suspended unless they've done something that still merits suspension. Suspension still applies for violence, theft, use of drugs, etc.

This decision will have the following consequences:

1. Teachers will become less willing to discipline students who have disrupted class because they know the administration will not back up the teacher.

2. Disruptions will increase, since students will know that the consequence of them doing so is not much.

3. Classes will become more unruly.

4. Students who want to learn will find it more difficult.

5. The students who will be most harmed will be the poorer ones, often the minorities, since they are trapped in public schools unable to afford a switch to private schools.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I was going to say that was a horrible mistake that will bring on all kinds of anarchy, however, since it is only 1 through 5, it's certainly not as bad as all that, but not good either.

Isn't 1st through 6th when they are most impressionable? Or do they figure they aren't old enough to be accountable?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

California public schools can't suspend students for disobeying teachers

CALIFORNIA (WTHR) — A new law in California will impact schools across the state.

The law says that it's illegal for public schools to suspend students in first through fifth grade who intentionally defy teachers or administrators.

From a Christian viewpoint this is excellent news

 

[dzheremi]

Where was this when I was in CA public schools!?

Just kidding...I was an angel, of course. And those were different times (late 80s-early 90s). There was one teacher who, whenever we were generally acting up as a class and being annoying, would mime playing the world's smallest violin while singing an impromptu song about us being "whiny wieners". I think rather than taking away a teacher's right to fill in forms with the term "defiance", things like this ought to be making a comeback. Creative things. Things that make your students feel ashamed and needing to defend their dumb behavior, so that when they realize they can't, they shut up, sit down, and do their work. (I think we were in 5th or 6th grade by then, though; this probably wouldn't work on younger kids who would just laugh at the word "wiener", rather than be offended.)

My brother, who was a few years older and went to Catholic school for his first year of high school, reported that kids who were especially bad would occasionally be made to stand in front of a brick building on campus while a particular teacher would hit some golf balls towards them! So it could always be worse, kids!

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

"Billy, put your phone way."
"Make me, i don't have to listen to you."

What does a teacher do at this point, since the kid is no longer required to listen to the teacher's instructions?

 

[hedrick]

"Billy, put your phone way."
"Make me, i don't have to listen to you."

What does a teacher do at this point, since the kid is no longer required to listen to the teacher's instructions?

Send them to the office. That hasn't changed. What's changed is that the office can't suspend them. I would assume that what we call locally "in-school suspension" is still OK.

 

[Hank77]

"Billy, put your phone way."
"Make me, i don't have to listen to you."

What does a teacher do at this point, since the kid is no longer required to listen to the teacher's instructions?

"You won't be joining your friends at recess time or you will be staying after school and your parents will have to come to pick you up."
That alone is usually enough to get through to kids of this age.

Never ever was anyone in my classes in elementary school suspended so that they could have a vacation to watch TV, play games, sleep in, etc.

 

[Quartermaine]

Right. But it's worth finding out more details. The law doesn't end suspension. It removes one specific cause for suspension, "defiance." Records convinced many that this was too vague, and that it was being used for minor offenses, and too often affected minorities. Disruptive students can be removed from the classroom, just not suspended unless they've done something that still merits suspension. Suspension still applies for violence, theft, use of drugs, etc.

California expands ban on 'willful defiance' suspensions in schools

Thanks for fact checking and presenting the truth.

Sadly there are many here who don't care about such things

 

[Albion]

Send them to the office. That hasn't changed. What's changed is that the office can't suspend them. I would assume that what we call locally "in-school suspension" is still OK.

Yes, we understand that. Nothing is changed because of making this point, though.

Being suspended is a substantial penalty. Spending a few hours sitting in the principal's office is not...and every student who isn't particularly concerned about acting up in class knows this about that "penalty."

 

[Mountainmanbob]

"Billy, put your phone way."
"Make me, i don't have to listen to you."
What does a teacher do at this point, since the kid is no longer required to listen to the teacher's instructions?

Tell Billy what a great student he is and how very lucky the world is to have him.
M-Bob

 

[dqhall]

California public schools can't suspend students for disobeying teachers

CALIFORNIA (WTHR) — A new law in California will impact schools across the state.

The law says that it's illegal for public schools to suspend students in first through fifth grade who intentionally defy teachers or administrators.

My brother is a teacher. If a student does something illegal, the school may call the police. There is a juvenile detention center.

Parents do not want their children suspended. They complained to schools about the practice as they worked and can not afford child care for their children.

 

[Albion]

My brother is a teacher. If a student does something illegal, the school may call the police. There is a juvenile detention center.

Parents do not want their children suspended. They complained to schools about the practice as they worked and can not afford child care for their children.

I'll bet that just about anyone who is facing charges because of doing something wrong finds the process--and any punishment--to be inconvenient.

 

[dzheremi]

I'll bet that just about anyone who is facing charges because of doing something wrong finds the process--and any punishment--to be inconvenient.

To be fair to dqhall's brother, and I imagine all teachers in California, a lot of what is defined as 'wrong' is so amorphous and/or ludicrous that parents would be right to complain about it. The rise of "zero tolerance" anti-bullying codes in schools, for instance, can effectively make growing up into doing something wrong. Whereas kids used to be able to fight, or at least get their energy and aggression out on the playground, as I understand it a lot of schools don't have physical play anymore for fear of lawsuits, and are overly invasive regarding student conflict (or even the mere potential for it, which is arguably always there), for fear of the same.

If I were working and I had to leave early because my kid got in trouble, only to find out once I got there that he got in trouble for not letting a kid twice his size wail on him with no response (because again, from what I understand, there's a tendency to treat schoolyard bullying now like a police-involved crime, so you can't fight back or else it's assault and you're both suspended; surrounding context be damned), I'd find that more than a little 'inconvenient'.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

My brother is a teacher. If a student does something illegal, the school may call the police. There is a juvenile detention center.

Parents do not want their children suspended. They complained to schools about the practice as they worked and can not afford child care for their children.

Well then, good reason to teach them (at home) how to mind so they can carry it over to school.

Problem is
they raise cain at home
and bring cain with them to school.
M-Bob

 

[HannahT]

"You won't be joining your friends at recess time or you will be staying after school and your parents will have to come to pick you up."
That alone is usually enough to get through to kids of this age.

Never ever was anyone in my classes in elementary school suspended so that they could have a vacation to watch TV, play games, sleep in, etc.

It was pretty much the same when I was in school. Although, it seems times and attitudes have changed too.

About a month ago I was watching a program from PBS on youtube about elementary school teachers. It was a bit more than what is labeled defiance. They had no problems kicking up in class, trashing the classroom, etc. Yes, they were sent to the office. After an hour or so? They were sent back to class.

Problem with that is others in the classroom were still pretty traumatized by the behavior, and they had not settled down yet. Then here comes the troubled student, and everyone walks on eggshells.

They need to define 'defiance' here. The reason for the program was different school districts were working out different solutions after experiencing the same type of violent behavior. They were trying to stop the flow of teachers leaving the profession due to these issues, and clearly feeling not in control of the classroom...with little to no support from administration, etc.

It's hard to believe that is in elementary school today, but we also don't know what the home life is like either.

 

[hedrick]

About a month ago I was watching a program from PBS on youtube about elementary school teachers. It was a bit more than what is labeled defiance. They had no problems kicking up in class, trashing the classroom, etc. Yes, they were sent to the office. After an hour or so? They were sent back to class.

That's a problem, but not a problem caused by this law. Violence can still result in suspension. Nor do defiant students have to be sent back to class immediately.

 

[HannahT]

That's a problem, but not a problem caused by this law. Violence can still result in suspension. Nor do defiant students have to be sent back to class immediately.

That is why I asked about the clarification of defiance. I agree with you.