LDS BYU now sells caffeine to mormon students

[faroukfarouk]

Really? That's news to me - mormon dietary law is not restricted to mormons? Who else does mormon dietary law apply to?

And who is talking about imposing anything on religious people? I'm not sure where you got that from at all - please clarify.

I think it should be clear I was talking about the idea of dietary law in general.

You mentioned the idea of arbitrary foisting - compelling, maybe: the pressures can work in both directions; secularists are hardly immune to pressurizing religious people against their consciences.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Wow, foisted upon a group by religious leaders for purposes of control, as would happen in a cult. That's a mighty stretch. From this is good for you, to I want to control you. Wow, what a stretch. Do you have a degree in phsycoanalysis? Why are you aware of all the little things a cult does? Were you a member of a cult once?

17,000,000 people worldwide, active in the name of Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world dos not constitute a cult. Sorry to disappoint you.

What's good for you? Not drinking any wine? Science says otherwise. Yes, cults use dietary laws as a means of control. They fabricate a "sin" so that if and when people commit the "sin" they can use it to deprive the person of the carrot they dangle before them. In the mormon religion, that is the membership to the Temple and eternal godhood. If you drink wine or coffee in mormonism you are denied entry to the Temple and therefore denied eternal godhood. It's not hard to see that mormon dietary law is simply a means of control since the mormon religion uses it to admit or deny membership to the higher levels of the religion (which is typical of any occultic religion, since mormonism itself is occultic).

One doesn't need a degree in pyschoanalysis nor experience being in a cult to be able to see the most obvious, low-level cult tactics. It's pretty transparent.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wow, foisted upon a group by religious leaders for purposes of control, as would happen in a cult. That's a mighty stretch. From this is good for you, to I want to control you. Wow, what a stretch. Do you have a degree in phsycoanalysis? Why are you aware of all the little things a cult does? Were you a member of a cult once?

17,000,000 people worldwide, active in the name of Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world dos not constitute a cult. Sorry to disappoint you.

I am not a Mormon. I do acknowledge, though, that the concept of dietary law is in the Old Testament, and so for me the issue is not to try to beat up on those who have conscientious dietary restrictions but rather of how I interpret revelation and the Testaments of Scripture.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I bear no animosity for what you say, I just consider the source. Since you are an angry person toward Mormonism, I disregard 95%, no 97% of all that you say. keep talking though, it is fun to read your responses.

I have no anger towards you or mormons, that's why I do listen to what you say. I'm not afraid of it, I don't have to hide from it, and I can answer to it with no problems. As for why you want to block 95%+ of what I say, that's your business as to why you want to hide from it, but I can't help but think that you're afraid of it because you know the truth when you hear it yet want to live in denial of it.

Keep explaining how you bear no animosity yet want to disregard virtually everything I say - it's fun to watch self-contradiction in action and to know that everyone else (except perhaps yourself) can see it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What's good for you? Not drinking any wine? Science says otherwise. Yes, cults use dietary laws as a means of control. They fabricate a "sin" so that if and when people commit the "sin" they can use it to deprive the person of the carrot they dangle before them. In the mormon religion, that is the membership to the Temple and eternal godhood. If you drink wine or coffee in mormonism you are denied entry to the Temple and therefore denied eternal godhood. It's not hard to see that mormon dietary law is simply a means of control since the mormon religion uses it to admit or deny membership to the higher levels of the religion (which is typical of any occultic religion, since mormonism itself is occultic).

One doesn't need a degree in pyschoanalysis nor experience being in a cult to be able to see the most obvious, low-level cult tactics. It's pretty transparent.

Remember that Israel in the Old Testament had dietary restrictions. (I don't believe we are now in Old Testament times; and there was Peter's vision in Acts, and so forth; but I don't really want to beat up on people whose consciences still make them choose carefully what they eat.)

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I think it should be clear I was talking about the idea of dietary law in general.

You mentioned the idea of arbitrary foisting - compelling, maybe: the pressures can work in both directions; secularists are hardly immune to pressurizing religious people against their consciences.

Well I was never talking about "dietary law in general". If you note the title of this thread you'll see that it's about mormon dietary restrictions, not "dietary law in general".

And I'm not sure why you are talking about "secularists" and their "pressurizing [sic] religious people against their consciences" since nobody here is talking about that. Again, perhaps you should note the title of this thread as well as the section of CF that it's under so that you can (hopefully) figure out that this is not about secularists or their oppression of religious people in general. And, in turn, hopefully you can then stop wagging your finger at me over things I am not even talking about.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Remember that Israel in the Old Testament had dietary restrictions. (I don't believe we are now in Old Testament times; and there was Peter's vision in Acts, and so forth; but I don't really want to beat up on people whose consciences still make them choose carefully what they eat.)

You are in the wrong forum and you are talking about things that nobody else here is talking about. This isn't about Jewish dietary law. There are entirely different forums and threads about that. You are wagging your finger at me over something you are falsely accusing me of. Somehow bearing false witness doesn't seem to bother you though, although that's one of the ten commandments.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well I was never talking about "dietary law in general". If you note the title of this thread you'll see that it's about mormon dietary restrictions, not "dietary law in general".

And I'm not sure why you are talking about "secularists" and their "pressurizing [sic] religious people against their consciences" since nobody here is talking about that. Again, perhaps you should note the title of this thread as well as the section of CF that it's under so that you can (hopefully) figure out that this is not about secularists or their oppression of religious people in general. And, in turn, hopefully you can then stop wagging your finger at me over things I am not even talking about.

Well, presumably BYU also gives courses to non-Mormon students and presumably their cafeterias also cater to Mormons and non-Mormons alike.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Well, presumably BYU also gives courses to non-Mormon students and presumably their cafeterias also cater to Mormons and non-Mormons alike.

What's the relevance?

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are in the wrong forum and you are talking about things that nobody else here is talking about. This isn't about Jewish dietary law. There are entirely different forums and threads about that. You are wagging your finger at me over something you are falsely accusing me of. Somehow bearing false witness doesn't seem to bother you though, although that's one of the ten commandments.

I don't know what you are talking about, sorry. We were having a reasoned discussion about dietary law. I think the Mormons themselves would see that their dietary customs recall Jewish dietary law in the Old Testament in some ways. So I wasn't really aware of being off topic.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What's the relevance?

I guess my point was that there is a mixture of Mormons and non-Mormons and their dietary arrangements would reflect this, presumably.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I guess my point was that there is a mixture of Mormons and non-Mormons and their dietary arrangements would reflect this, presumably.

LDS do not hold non-LDS to LDS behavioral standards.

BYU (not LDS theology/church/people in general) is a private university and as part of admission every student theres agrees to abide by certain certain behavioral standards. None of these standards have to do with soda or caffeine.

 

[faroukfarouk]

LDS do not hold non-LDS to LDS behavioral standards.

BYU (not LDS theology/church/people in general) is a private university and as part of admission every student theres agrees to abide by certain certain behavioral standards. None of these standards have to do with soda or caffeine.

I was in Cardston, Alberta, which is overwhelmingly Mormon, but they had a DQ there which sold soda, as I recall.

I can understand what you say about the regulations and the accommodating of people from different backgrounds.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I guess my point was that there is a mixture of Mormons and non-Mormons and their dietary arrangements would reflect this, presumably.

Well, that's why you should presume. Their dietary arrangements don't take into consideration what non-mormons want, which is why they still don't serve coffee or tea.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I was in Cardston, Alberta, which is overwhelmingly Mormon, but they had a DQ there which sold soda, as I recall.

Oh yeah, lots of Mormons love soda. There's nothing against it in LDS theology at all.

 

[Peter1000]

I am not a Mormon. I do acknowledge, though, that the concept of dietary law is in the Old Testament, and so for me the issue is not to try to beat up on those who have conscientious dietary restrictions but rather of how I interpret revelation and the Testaments of Scripture.

Thank you, our dietary doctrines should not be debated. They are for our church members only. If you don't think they are good, don't be a member. If you do think they are good, obey the doctrine, whether you are a member or not.

It is all about how we feel you can be healthier. Not how EO think you can be healthier.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I don't know what you are talking about, sorry. We were having a reasoned discussion about dietary law. I think the Mormons themselves would see that their dietary customs recall Jewish dietary law in the Old Testament in some ways. So I wasn't really aware of being off topic.

We were having a discussion about mormon dietary restrictions. Do you consider that to be law from God? As a Christian, I don't. This is the "Outreach" forum. Part of this forum is to inform mormons and those interested in mormonism as to what is not Christian about mormonism. If you find that mormon law is God's law then feel free to say so, but as a Christian I will disagree and the other Christians in this forum will disagree. As Christians, we don't see mormon dietary restrictions as being similar to Jewish dietary law as that was handed down by God as opposed to being handed down by hucksters like Joseph Smith.

So if you are trying to say that you believe that God's law and Joseph Smith's law are the same then just say so.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you, our dietary doctrines should not be debated. They are for our church members only. If you don't think they are good, don't be a member. If you do think they are good, obey the doctrine, whether you are a member or not.

It is all about how we feel you can be healthier. Not how EO think you can be healthier.

I was actually saying that I can see to some extent - not completely - where Mormons say they get their dietary ideas from.

 

[faroukfarouk]

We were having a discussion about mormon dietary restrictions. Do you consider that to be law from God? As a Christian, I don't. This is the "Outreach" forum. Part of this forum is to inform mormons and those interested in mormonism as to what is not Christian about mormonism. If you find that mormon law is God's law then feel free to say so, but as a Christian I will disagree and the other Christians in this forum will disagree. As Christians, we don't see mormon dietary restrictions as being similar to Jewish dietary law as that was handed down by God as opposed to being handed down by hucksters like Joseph Smith.

So if you are trying to say that you believe that God's law and Joseph Smith's law are the same then just say so.

Post #85.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I was actually saying that I can see where Mormons say they get their dietary ideas from.

We all can see where they get their dietary ideas from - Joseph Smith and the church leaders.