By What Is Homosexuality Prohibited?

[Carl Emerson]

I'm fairly certain that you would agree that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom; but where specifically do we see, in the 613, a prohibition on getting drunk?

Jesus supplied about 30 gallons of wine - after the guests were already under the influence !!!

That is why the comment was made that it is not usual to supply such good wine when the guests are past the ability to appreciate it...

On this basis I doubt that someone will loose salvation by being drunk.

 

[parousia70]

Here's what Saint John Chrysostom says about it :

Sounds like he struggled mightily with his own SSA demons.

For sure, if you are struggling with Same Sex Attraction, it would be wise and prudent for you to loudly promulgate the Biblical Admonitions against it at every opportunity, for your struggle will no doubt be lessened for you, and easier to cope with internally, when you shout out the biblical admonitions against it from the rooftops as often as possible.

As I don't face that internal struggle myself, I don't really find any personal benefit to my faith walk by shouting out against it in such fashion. Gluttony and Laziness though I do struggle with internally, and therefore I shout out the Biblical admonitions against them as often as I can, as it reminds me that, just like the practice of Homosexuality, such is an abomination to God, and therefore helps me turn away from it and strengthens my faith in my walk with Him...

So, if you do struggle with SSA, then by all means SHOUT OUT against it as often as possible!
It can only help you.

 

[BobRyan]

HARK! said: ↑
Sin is transgression of the law.

Sin is more than that...
Did Adam and Eve sin?
Did Cain sin?

Yes of course... and well before the Law of Moses.

"Do not take God's name in vain" -- is that the "Law of God" -- or the "law of moses" in the model you use?

Does the NT statement "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" only apply the authority and stature to "LAW" as being limited to the authority of "Moses writing" - or is it about God being the author of scripture - and the Law of God is what is being referenced?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Sounds like he struggled mightily with his own SSA demons.

For sure, if you are struggling with Same Sex Attraction, it would be wise and prudent for you to loudly promulgate the Biblical Admonitions against it at every opportunity, for your struggle will no doubt be lessened for you, and easier to cope with internally, when you shout out the biblical admonitions against it from the rooftops as often as possible.

As I don't face that internal struggle myself, I don't really find any personal benefit to my faith walk by shouting out against it in such fashion. Gluttony and Laziness though I do struggle with internally, and therefore I shout out the Biblical admonitions against them as often as I can, as it reminds me that, just like the practice of Homosexuality, such is an abomination to God, and therefore helps me turn away from it and strengthens my faith in my walk with Him...

So, if you do struggle with SSA, then by all means SHOUT OUT against it as often as possible!
It can only help you.

I'm convinced that the actual attraction / temptation is caused by the harassment of demonic spirits.

Especially, if it is involuntary and against the person's own will. (that's what demons do, they tempt and torment people)


From : Hieromartyr Cyprian, Virgin Martyr Justina, and Martyr Theoctistus, of Nicomedia

"Cyrian Sent Demons To Attack The Holy Virgin, Trying To Arouse Fleshly Passions In Her,
But She Dispelled Them By The Power of The Sign of The Cross And By Fervent Prayer To The Lord."

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Saints Cyprian and Justina and what we can learn from their story as Christians (Repost)

Making The Sign Of The Cross (Orthodox Videos)

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[Redwingfan9]

7.) You shall not commit adultery.

Doesn't one first have to be married in order to commit adultery?

Surely you aren't promoting premarital homosexuality.

The 7th commandment doesn't clearly prohibit homosexual marriage.

I assume that you wouldn't promote that either. Therefore on what basis would you say that these cases are prohibited? I say the Torah. What say you?

A proper reading of that commandment and the laws that flow therefrom is that adultery involves all forms of sexuality outside the bounds of marriage. Lust, fornication, sodomy, etc.

 

[parousia70]

I'm convinced that the actual attraction / temptation is caused by the harassment of demonic spirits.
.

Interesting...I suppose that would be beneficial to figure out, so one could avoid being personally responsible for the temptation...

Do you feel these demonic spirits are harassing you this way?

As someone who values accepting personal responsibility for my thoughts and actions, I'm not a big fan of what we used to Call "Flip Wilson Theology" so I struggle with Blaming demons for too much, for scripture says that we are each drawn away and tempted by our OWN lust (James 1:14), and that the Heart is deceitful above all else (including Demons)(Jeremiah 17:9).. How then can we then know if it's our own heart and desires that are tempting us, and thereofre take responsibility for it, or if its Demons, and therefore we can absolve ourselves of personal responsibility?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Four Saints Who Struggled with Lust :

Four Saints Who Struggled with Lust | Orthodox Christian Fellowship



• St. Mary of Egypt. (344-421 A.D.)

St. Mary of Egypt (April 1) is perhaps one of the most revered and beloved models of repentance in the Orthodox Church. By the end of her life, she was perhaps the greatest spiritual pillar of her time. But her story begins with a young girl interested primarily in parties, socializing, and seducing–a young girl who lost her virginity at twelve and spent the next 17 years pursuing sexual partners to satisfy her lust. When she is eventually drawn to repentance by the Theotokos, she prayed,

O Lady Virgin, who gave birth in the flesh to God the Word! I know that I am unworthy to look upon your icon. I rightly inspire hatred and disgust before your purity, but I know also that God became Man in order to call sinners to repentance. Help me, O All-Pure One. Let me enter the church. Allow me to behold the Wood upon which the Lord was crucified in the flesh, shedding His Blood for the redemption of sinners, and also for me. Be my witness before Your Son that I will never defile my body again with the impurity of fornication. As soon as I have seen the Cross of your Son, I will renounce the world, and go wherever you lead me.

• St. Moses the Ethiopian. (330-405 A.D.)

Many people know and love the story of the bandit who became an Abba of the desert. St. Moses (August 28) was the leader of a band of murderers and robbers who rampaged through Egypt in the early fifth century. When he was turned to repentance by St. Isidore, he struggled for many years with the lingering passions from his former life, especially lustful and violent thoughts. In his struggle, he became incredibly humble, never deigning to judge a brother for his struggle knowing the pervasiveness of his own sinful desires and the destructive consequences they had in his past. There is no particular prayer of St. Moses that I could find, but take courage in this story from The Sayings of the Desert Fathers:

On one occasion Abba Moses of Patara was engaged in a war against fornication, and he could not endure being in his cell, and he went and informed Abba Isidore of it; and the old man entreated him to return to his cell, but he would not agree. And having said, “Father I cannot bear it,” the old man took him up to the roof of his cell and said unto him, “Look to the west,” and when he looked he saw multitudes of devils with troubled and terrified aspects and they showed themselves in the forms of phantoms with fighting attitudes. Abba Isidore said to him, “Look to the east,” and when he looked he saw innumerable holy angels standing there, and they were in a state of great glory.

Then Abba Isidore said unto him, “Behold those who are in the west are those who are fighting with the holy ones; and those whom you have seen in the east are those who are sent by God to the help of the saints, for those who are with us are many.” And having seen these, Abba Moses took courage and returned to his cell without fear.

• St. Justina. (3rd century - 304 A.D.)

St. Justina (October 2) was an amazing woman of fortitude. She was a convert to Christianity as a teenager and brought her parents to belief in Christ as well. She dedicated herself to Christ, refusing a marriage proposal from a suitor. When, through the power of the sorcerer Cyprian, Justina was tempted by multiple demons (during her prayers, nonetheless) to lustfully desire the suitor she had just rejected, she offered up this prayer,

O Lord Jesus Christ, my God, lo, mine enemies have risen up against me and have prepared a snare for my feet! My soul is brought low, but I have remembered Thy name in the night and am made glad. When they compassed me round about, I have fled unto Thee, hoping that mine adversary might not rejoice over me, for Thou knowest, O Lord my God, that I am Thy handmaiden. For Thee have I kept the purity of my body, and to Thee have I entrusted my soul; wherefore, preserve Thou Thy lamb, O good Shepherd. Do not permit the beast which seeketh to devour me to consume me, and grant me to prevail over the evil desires of my flesh.

• St. John the Long-Suffering

From the time of his youth, St. John (September 28) was tormented by sexual desires. No ascetical feat seemed to be a match for the passion that raged in him. Even when he became a recluse, still he struggled greatly with lust, and the devil did his best to shake St. John’s determination to overcome this passion–so much so that he sent a serpent to terrify him and frighten him into forsaking his seclusion. On Pascha night, in the midst of these torments and his own temptations, St. John cried out to Christ,

O Lord my God and my Savior! Why have You forsaken me? Have mercy upon me, only Lover of Mankind; deliver me from my foul iniquity, so that I am not trapped in the snares of the Evil one. Deliver me from the mouth of my enemy: send down a flash of lightning and drive it away.

 

[parousia70]

Double Post**

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think that you're putting too much emphasis on verse 49.

(CLV) Ezk 16:50
They were haughty and committed abhorrences before Me; so I put them away just as you see.


Ezekiel 16:50 King James Version (KJV)
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I actually spoke of the abomination bit earlier. I'm reading the whole text.

My point for this verse is, one sin is called out by name, and the other - not by name - and in passing ... so it's easy to figure out which is the priority.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with (With who?) the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My (Your what?) law within them, And I shall write it (Where?) on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

Jesus replaced the function of law on the cross, Jesus is the law of God made flesh, He is the Lord - Our Righteousness - not righteousness by following a set of rules, but a righteousness that is derived from trusting in Him.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Interesting...I suppose that would be beneficial to figure out, so one could avoid being personally responsible for the temptation...

Oh, the person is completely responsible for The Actual Physical Action of the sin.

Demons just tempt the person, suggest the thoughts, and even physically assault the person to try and get them to sin.

It's unseen warfare.


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[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Messiah' ministry, his whole life's work, was teaching obedience to YHWH's perfect law, unto death. Messiah's law is YHWH's law; but where did Messiah mention anything about homosexuality?

Yahshua's ministry on this earth was to finish and complete the Law of Moses in living a sinless life, dying on the tree becoming a curse for us, offering his blood on the altar in heaven finishing the Old covenant and bringing about the New covenant which is after the Promise of Faith given to Abraham, and to preach the New law of Christ in parable that was shut up in it's understanding until after his death on the Cross and atonement in heaven.

The Law of Christ is YHWH's law, it is the New law/Covenant and not the Old Law/Covenant given to Moses which was only until Christ came and finished it. Under the NT law we find homosexuality as a sin in(Romans 1; 1 Cor 6; 1 Tim 1). These are commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37)

 

[parousia70]

Oh, the person is completely responsible for The Actual Physical Action of the sin.

Demons just tempt the person, suggest the thoughts, and even physically assault the person to try and get them to sin.

It's unseen warfare.
.

Got it... so you would agree that Same Sex Attraction, in and of itself, if not acted upon, is not a "sin" that anyone needs to repent from, since it has been planted there by outside demonic forces?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Got it... so you would agree that Same Sex Attraction, in and of itself, if not acted upon, is not a "sin" that anyone needs to repent from, since it has been planted there by outside demonic forces?

My answer would be that if they dwell on and entertain the thoughts and feelings whether caused by a demon Or from their own selves that it is a sin.

You might not be able to keep birds from flying over you, but you can stop them from building a nest on your head.

The person should Fervently pray to God, Make The Sign of The Cross and ask Theotokos and The Saints to intercede for them when these thoughts or feelings caused by demons or even their own selves are assaulting them.


.

 

[Job3315]

How do you come to that conclusion; and how do you feel that dovetails with what Paul says here?:


(CLV) Ro 7:7
What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law. For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting."

Maturity and communion with the Father. Once you start to understand His heart you start to understand what He is trying to tell us. He is saying He doesn't want us to behave as His people because we have to, but because that's who we are in Him. The Bible says we are no longer under the law, but under the law of the Spirit, which is Jesus in us.

References:
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:16-18

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.(Jesus and His descendants) The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. Galatians 3:19

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ (His Spirit in us). Galatians 3:22-27

"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people (Jesus in us). Jeremiah 31:33

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him (we manifest who He is because we know Him) who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

Should it ever have been about fear of punishment? Shouldn't it have always been about love for Abba?

Do you believe that Abraham was obedient, out of fear, or out of love?

Punishment never brings transformation. Paul says to be transformed by the renewing of your mind; which means to know the truth so you can be free from religion and enter into identity. Jesus even got mad with the Pharisees because they didn't understand God's heart through the law; Identity. Then Jesus demonstrated what the Father wanted. Jesus is the image of the Father's heart.

Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Paul, and many others worshipped out of love and respect for God, not out of fear of punishment.

Reference:
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption (Identity as Children of God) whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

Note: I added the red comments on the scripture.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

Most Christians are quick to point out that homosexuality is an abomination; but many of them will claim that we are not under the law, which they interpret as being exempt from the law, or something similar. Even the ones who say the we are compelled to keep the Decalogue, can't point to a law in the Decalogue that prohibits homosexuality.

Clearly it is sin. It is decried from before Moses, and after Yahshua's ascension.

Sin is transgression of the law.

If homosexuality isn't prohibited by proclamation of the Torah; then by what?

Why do you concentrate only on the Old Testament or the Torah? The principles of the Torah continue into the New Testament. However, the seventh commandment has the principle that marriage must be perserved in the light of Adam and Eve's situation before the fall. God made Eve out of Adam, and the resulting application in Genesis 2:24, "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

Thus, marriage between one man and one woman is established. In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul makes it clear that the guilt of humanity takes the form of homosexual desires and conduct among other actions in Romans 1:24-27, "24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Also, in the Torah (Genesis 19:4,5), the two angels were staying at Lot's house when a mob of men approached Lot's house, " 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” As a result of the moral depravity of Sodom's homosexual men, God rained fire down on the town and Gomorrah.

The Scriptures are clear that homosexual conduct is morally wrong, but homosexual and heterosexual desires outside of marriage are morally wrong. In Matthew 5:27,28, Jesus says that lust for a member of the opposite sex is the same as adultery. However, given Paul's condemnation of homosexual desire and conduct, the principle of Jesus' extension of adultery to lust also applies to any desire for someone outside of marriage including homosexual lust.

 

[chilehed]

You are correct. Where is this written?

Both the moral law and the ceremonial law are discussed at length in the Bible, in too many places to cite here. You might want to start by studying the Decalogue.

 

[Celticroots]

By nature itself. The anus was never designed for sex, and having anal sex causes harm to that tissue, it causes more bleeding and spreads more disease as a result.

Yet we see homosexual activity among animals.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Notice that not one of these verses quotes Yahshua. Where did his disciples get this?

First you have to realise that as the bible says:

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And scripture as a whole condemns homosexuality.

The OT law not only calls it an abomination, but it is an abomination punishable by death.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

In the New Testament, it is again condemned.

1Co 6:9 Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

Rom 1:27-28 Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds. Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That's why they do all sorts of indecent things.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[DamianWarS]

Can you support this with scripture?

The creation account is supported in Gen 1 & 2. Heterosexual relationships are implicit through design and commandments to multiply. Homosexuality was wrong before Torah, but your logic is stating it is only wrong since Torah because it is explicitly defined. God also didn't say to Adam that he wasn't allowed to worship idols yet Adam wasn't free to worship idols.