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Featured By What Is Homosexuality Prohibited?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HARK!, Jun 1, 2020.

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  1. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most Christians are quick to point out that homosexuality is an abomination; but many of them will claim that we are not under the law, which they interpret as being exempt from the law, or something similar. Even the ones who say the we are compelled to keep the Decalogue, can't point to a law in the Decalogue that prohibits homosexuality.

    Clearly it is sin. It is decried from before Moses, and after Yahshua's ascension.

    Sin is transgression of the law.

    If homosexuality isn't prohibited by proclamation of the Torah; then by what?
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Well, unless you understand the covenant framework of biblical history.

    The Mosaic law was tripartite, containing civil, ceremonial and inherently moral laws for the nation of Israel. It was a covenant law, that dealt with the covenant people it was designed for. However, it contained eternal truths that deal with human morality that are transparent to covenant agreements. In other words, moral laws are moral regardless of what covenant they were added to. Murder was wrong under the Adamic covenant no less than the Mosaic, nor was it understood only after the Mosaic, but even among Cain and Abel it was sin. The Mosaic covenant was the written code, with the moral law (decalogue) included in it, yet the Mosaic covenant was NOT the beginning of morality. It was not the Mosaic covenant that "invented" the definition of sin and righteousness, it declared it and proclaimed it. The conscience bears witness to the internal law, but because of sin and corruption, it was necessary to write it down to remind men of sin.

    However, the rest of the Mosaic law contained laws that were specific to Israel. It dealt with their worship, it dealt with their society. It should NOT be applied to our modern society, and it cannot since it speaks of a dead culture built around agriculture and temple services and ceremonies. However, the moral truths behind the commandments remain moral regardless if the covenant is no longer intact. Homosexuality has always been wrong, long before Moses. The Sabbath is a statute since Creation.

    We can look at the moral truths of the Mosaic law and apply them today. We cannot do this with dietary laws.
     
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  3. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Romans 1:18-32
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    1 Timothy 1:10
    10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


     
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  4. Job3315

    Job3315 Well-Known Member

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    Before, sin was a transgression of the written law, now it is a transgression of a personal conviction of our God given nature (We are made in His image). We no longer not sin, not because of fear of punishment, but because we understand how much He loves us, how much He did for us and how His nature is also our nature; We become like our Father. Those who fear are not perfected in love, that's what brings identity.
     
  5. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Your excellent recall of Scripture really impressed me @Der Alte This is of course a compelling, correct and valid argument.

    Amazingly, some liberal theologians in the mainline denominations, who are dead-set on “reimagining” our religion, use these verses as “evidence” that the holy Apostle Paul was a “misogynist” or “homophobe” and then on that basis basically proceed to ignore all of his moral instruction. Yet, conveniently, when it suits them, they embrace other teachings of his, even from the same epistle.

    Others attempt to claim a bizarre exegesis, in which they claim that St. Paul did not mean for the preceding verses to be taken literally but was presenting them as an example of erroneous interpretation. :doh:
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (CLV) Hb 8:10
    "For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

    (CLV) Mt 15:24
    Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
     
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    First verse, about the Church.

    Second verse, about Jesus' earthly ministry.
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Notice that not one of these verses quotes Yahshua. Where did his disciples get this?
     
  9. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly. The Ecclessia is Israel.
     
  10. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Israel was the type, the Church is the antitype.

    Animal sacrifices was the type, Christ is the antitype.

    Jews were the type, believers are the antitype.

    Canaan was the type, heaven is the antitype.

    The Old Covenant dealt with earthly things, for an earthly people. The New Covenant deals with spiritual things, for a heavenly people.

    Abraham, Moses and David were the federal head and/or mediator of the covenants of promise.
    Christ is the federal head and mediator of the promised covenant.
     
  11. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Sin is more than that...

    Did Adam and Eve sin?

    Did Cain sin?

    Yes of course... and well before the Law of Moses.
     
  12. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many people forget that this sin is usually connected to demonic attachments :


    For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
    • Acts 15:28-29


    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor Homosexuals, Nor Sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
    • 1 Corinthian 6:9-10


    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, Sexually Immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
    Revelation 21:8


    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
    But outside are dogs and sorcerers And Sexually Immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
    Revelation 22:14-15



    Church Fathers on the topic :


    • Saint John Chrysostom. (347-407 A.D.)





    • Saint Gregory The Great (540-604 A.D.)





    • Saint Augustine of Hippo. (354-430 A.D.)


    .


     
  13. DebbieJ

    DebbieJ Member

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    Homosexuality is just one of the sexual sins that a Christian should avoid. Just as adultery, fornication, and etc.

    A straight man is born with a natural attraction to woman that causes him to commit fornication or adultery if married.

    A straight woman is born with a natural attraction to man that causes her to commit fornication or adultery if married.

    An LGBT is born with a natural attraction to the same sex that causes them to commit sexual sins.

    Which one then has the greatest sin? You may stone them to death.
     
  14. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here's what Saint John Chrysostom says about it :


    • Saint John Chrysostom - Homilies on the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans - Homily 4 (IV.) -
    (347-407 A.D.)

    NPNF1-11 Homilies on the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. Homily IV.

    CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Romans (Chrysostom)



    “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic….. So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body….. There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”



    [​IMG]
    .

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  15. Palmfever

    Palmfever Member

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    For those who believe scripture the following are enough:

    Romans 1, 23 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Some may rightfully argue that the meaning of effeminate is soft. This is the first definition. The second is as follows;
    STRONGS NT 3120: μαλακός
    μαλακός, μαλακή, μαλακον, soft; soft to the touch: ἱμάτια, Matthew 11:8 R G L brackets; Luke 7:25 (ἱματίων πολυτελῶν καί μαλακων, Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 1, 78; ἐσθής, Homer, Odyssey 23, 290; Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 2, 3; χιτών, Homer, Iliad 2, 42); and simply τά μαλακά, soft raiment (see λευκός, 1): Matthew 11:8 T Tr WH. Like the Latinmollis, metaphorically, and in a bad sense: effeminate, of a catamite, a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness, 1 Corinthians 6:9 (Dionysius Halicarnassus, Antiquities 7, 2 under the end; ((Diogenes Laërtius 7, 173 at the end)).

    1 Tim, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    Strong's G733 in the following manner: abuser of (one's) self with mankind (1x), defile (one's) self with mankind
    STRONGS NT 733: ἀρσενοκοίτης
    ἀρσενοκοίτης, -ου, ὁ, (ἄρσην a male; κοίτη a bed), one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite: 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10.

    For those who choose nature, evolution:

    Question. What is the principle mechanism by which Darwin in his ‘Origin of the species’ suggests adaptation hence evolution is passed onto future generations in humanity? Male and female copulate to populate. Until recently human birth without the participation of a male donor did not exist. While it does now with donor sperm it still would not without said contribution from human male. In essence for perpetuation of the species it takes a man and a woman. Which is why Scripture and Darwin on this point agree. If Adam and Eve had been queer, they would have been the first and last humans.

    In Christ

    Having said that, fornication of any sort is sin. It may however be one sin the differs from others.
    1 Cor, 6:16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How did Abimelech know that it was wrong for him to take Sarah; before the law was written down for Moses?
     
  17. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    Romans 1:26-27 describes homosexual acts as a curse, against nature, unseemly, shameful...

    Anyone who thinks this unclear is just looking for an excuse to continue in sin.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you come to that conclusion; and how do you feel that dovetails with what Paul says here?:


    (CLV) Ro 7:7
    What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law. For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting."


    Should it ever have been about fear of punishment? Shouldn't it have always been about love for Abba?

    Do you believe that Abraham was obedient, out of fear, or out of love?
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sin is transgression of the law. So you believe that the current prohibition is imposed by the law?
     
  20. a-lily-in-the-valley

    a-lily-in-the-valley Active Member

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    (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them)
    (Romans 2:14-15, ASV)
     
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