By 2021, the Episcopal Church will enter full communion with the United Methodist Church

[hedrick]

And among the other two proposed bodies?

It’s just a guess, but I don’t expect more than one significant mainline body. Theres a proposal for liberal, conservative, snd middle. The conservatives won’t want the EC. I’d be really surprised to see a significant separate liberal offshoot. A few liberal churches are leaving now, but I don’t there will be a big group unless the whole proposal,fails. Then things are a bit too muddy to predict.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well, in my (highly conservative) circle, speculation is rampant that ELCA, TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and maybe even UCC could enter into some alliance quite like the United Church of Canada. And of course, the caricature of such a group is that they will have compromised themselves into oblivion for the sake of unity.

Such is pretty much what has happened here with the United Church of Canada.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

TEC has a presence in Europe, too.



I don't really see how one can enter into full communion with (say) TEC, but not by virtue of that into full communion with churches with which TEC is in full communion (including Australian Anglicans).

Such is not all that uncommon. For example, Lutheran Church Canada is in fellowship with the Lutheran Church of Austrailia, the LCMS is not; we were also in full fellowship with the Mission Diocese of Finland for some time, while they have been in fellowship with the LCMS for only about 1 year. We are all member of the International Lutheran Confrence, but not all members of this group are in full fellowship (Altar and Pulpit fellowship) with each other.

 

[Arcangl86]

TEC has a presence in Europe, too.



I don't really see how one can enter into full communion with (say) TEC, but not by virtue of that into full communion with churches with which TEC is in full communion (including Australian Anglicans).

Until recently the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada was in full communion with the Anglican Church of Canada and the Evangelical Lutheran of America but not TEC which was in full communion with the ELCA and of course the ACC. TEC is currently in full communion with the Church of Sweden and of course the Anglican churches of Europe, but not the other Lutheran members of the Provoo Communion.

 

[Albion]

After all is said and done, intercommunion these days doesn't seem to accomplish much other than prepare the way for organic unity. These jurisdictions don't deny visiting Christians from other churches the opportunity to take Holy Communion in their churches at present, and having a minister from one body conduct worship in one of the other ones is fairly uncommon even when there is an 'altar and pulpit fellowship' agreement in place.

As for reconciling doctrinal differences, that's achieved merely by using sufficiently general and vague terms when the new statements of belief are produced. Or, as the Anglican Church in North America did, openly permit several conflicting views and/or practices on almost every difficult issue and never get around to actually merging the separate jurisdictions but settling instead for having all of them just use the same denominational name as if organic unity had actually been achieved.

 

[Padres1969]

If they push it off more it is just going to be more painful and muddled. With the GMC already stating that they are moving forward regardless, we are going to see schism no matter what. Hopefully they can work it out so at least the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] UMC and GMC have amicable relations. The new Liberal Methodist Connexon (or whatever they end up being called) will likely go their own way regardless as well.

Having seen that happen to TEC, I would tend to agree. If there's a major bone of contention and it's going to drive away individual churches anyway, best to split cleanly now than drag it out over decades of trickle split as TEC endured.

 

[Sean611]

After all is said and done, intercommunion these days doesn't seem to accomplish much other than prepare the way for organic unity. These jurisdictions don't deny visiting Christians from other churches the opportunity to take Holy Communion in their churches at present, and having a minister from one body conduct worship in one of the other ones is fairly uncommon even when there is an 'altar and pulpit fellowship' agreement in place.

As for reconciling doctrinal differences, that's achieved merely by using sufficiently general and vague terms when the new statements of belief are produced. Or, as the Anglican Church in North America did, openly permit several conflicting views and/or practices on almost every difficult issue and never get around to actually merging the separate jurisdictions but settling instead for having all of them just use the same denominational name as if organic unity had actually been achieved.

I agree with my old friend Albion on this one and can only muster a big "yawn." If full communion agreements do nothing to address the issues that separated them, then is it really an honest agreement and why should we care? I applaud all denominations that engage in true ecumenical dialogue and genuinely try to work toward agreement, but these are not really the types of agreements they pretend to be.

Other than that, I think one liberal mainline denomination is on the horizon and the Episcopal Church (and other shrinking mainline denominations) is wise to form these agreements for that inevitability. On a side note, I am kind of surprised with the agreement given the UMC, while being pretty progressive overall, is more conservative than TEC on a number of issues.

 

[seeking.IAM]

... On a side note, I am kind of surprised with the agreement given the UMC, while being pretty progressive overall, is more conservative than TEC on a number of issues.

Please define the "any number of issues" you perceive. Asked by a 50-year Methodist turned Episcopalian.

 

[Sean611]

Please define the "any number of issues" you perceive. Asked by a 50-year Methodist turned Episcopalian.

From what I understand (most of my family are UMC) and the research I have seen shows a church very split over gay marriage, abortion, and progressive theology in general. Don't get me wrong, the UMC has more progressive and more conservative wings like many larger mainline churches; however, they officially take a much more conservative approach to these issues than TEC (which only has a tiny conservative wing at this point).

 

[hedrick]

All the mainline denominations have a mix of perspectives. As far as I can tell there’s no real difference between the UMC and other mainline churches. The main difference is that its governance allows African representatives to vote on US polciy questions, so official policy doesn’t match the actual views of the US church, nor recently even its actual actions.

 

[seeking.IAM]

As a 50 year Methodist turned Episcopalian, in my experience the biggest differences are in the areas of homosexuality and practice issues such as attitudes and belief surrounding the Eucharist, liturgy, and episcopal authority.

I do not believe my Methodist Bishop held the same level of control and influence as does my Episcopal Bishop. The Methodist churches with which I am familiar have all but abandoned liturgy or any order to worship (which is why I'm here in the first place) and tend to be "lower" than the low Episcopal churches with which I am familiar.

An illustrative story about the Eucharist: One day after mass I stopped to see my mother in her long term care facility. While there, her Methodist pastor dropped by to offer her (and me) communion. When he fumbled and dropped the consecrated host on the floor, he picked it up and casually flicked it into the wastebasket. I nearly had an apoplexy and in that moment realized how far I had come from Methodism. I wrote a playful goading piece for my still-Methodist sisters about the event which I titled, "Jesus in a Wastebasket."