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By 2021, the Episcopal Church will enter full communion with the United Methodist Church

Discussion in 'Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic' started by Raphael Jauregui, May 17, 2017.

  1. Raphael Jauregui

    Raphael Jauregui Episcopalian, liberal Anglican, Mdiv

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    The ELCA is not in direct full communion with, for example C of E, but the C of E is in full communion with many mainline Lutheran churches in Europe through the Porvoo Communion.
     
  2. Padres1969

    Padres1969 Episcopalian

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    We'll see. My bishop doesn't seem to think that's the ultimate goal since while there are plenty of points for unity, there are some things that are non-negotiable even from the TEC that would be roadblocks to such an alliance. Particularly the Episcopal Church's Episcopate. Indeed such a thing would be hard to overcome vis-a-vis the UMC, and impossible with the PCUSA.
     
  3. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    We've been over this before. It was a daydream in the 1970s that was more fervently rejected than any other contemporary proposal. It's never been thought of in any official capacity since.

    I understand that it's keeps the Continuing Anglican narrative intact in your mind, but cut out pining for the failures that never were. :)

    All full communion really is is a formal acknowledgment that another church is Christian and shares theology.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  4. Naomi4Christ

    Naomi4Christ not a nutter Supporter

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    PTL!

    There are lots of united Anglican/Methodist churches in England, under the Local Ecumenical Project. They do good things - their fellowships are well fed with the Word of God and their communities are served.
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Dream on, Steve, if it stimulates you to think that Continuing Anglicans waste much time talking among themselves about what it is that ECUSA may be doing. The fact is that we almost never do that, although it was different in the early days about twenty or thirty years ago. Sure, there's a joke that'll get shared once in awhile, but that's about it. Here on this forum, of course, we all live in a special universe, but outside of such a venue as this one...no.
     
  6. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Translator

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    My friend, that's seemingly a third to half of what you do on the Anglican & Old Catholic forum.

    You have a reputation. :)
     
  7. Shane R

    Shane R Priest Supporter

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    The sentiment of this thread's title hasn't aged well. The UMC is splitting up. Much of what passes for conservative Methodism has chosen to follow the trends of American evangelicalism. The times they are a changin'.
     
  8. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lost in the swamp Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    A lot has sure changed, and would have changed about a year earlier in the UMC had Covid not happened. It also strikes me how ignorant on the UMC's global reach I was just a couple of years back.
     
  9. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The UMC is an international body. There is no US-specific Methodist body. There are several jurisdictions in the US, but no one body for the US. Any rules involving the US have to be passed by the international body.

    However the Episcopal Church is a US body. So if the UMC as a whole enters into full communion with the EC, then an Australian Methodist would be in full communion with an American Episcopalian, but not with an Australian Anglican, absent a separate agreement.

    The US mainline bodies are negotiating bilateral agreements. The problem is that half the mainline churches have bishops and half don't. The ELCA has bishops, but doesn't seem to mind bilateral agreements with churches that don't. However the EC and UMC have been unable to make agreements with Presbyterians and others without bishops.
     
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  10. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Had the general conference happened when scheduled, that seemed likely. I think it's no longer clear what the UMC is going to do. It's entirely possible that it could continue to be muddled, with individual churches exiting.
     
  11. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lost in the swamp Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    If they push it off more it is just going to be more painful and muddled. With the GMC already stating that they are moving forward regardless, we are going to see schism no matter what. Hopefully they can work it out so at least the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] UMC and GMC have amicable relations. The new Liberal Methodist Connexon (or whatever they end up being called) will likely go their own way regardless as well.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Actually, The Episcopal Church (AKA Episcopal Church in the USA) includes a number of dioceses and provinces in other countries, including the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Ecuador, Venezuela, Republic of China (Taiwan), and some others I've forgotten. This is why it has been surmised that TEC is prepared, if it should ever be expelled from the Anglican Communion, to 'go it alone' as its own international church.
     
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  13. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    TEC has a presence in Europe, too.

    I don't really see how one can enter into full communion with (say) TEC, but not by virtue of that into full communion with churches with which TEC is in full communion (including Australian Anglicans).
     
  14. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

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    I have to think full communion with Methodists is dead on arrival. I mean which of the Methodist splinter groups could that possibly be? I think it must be back to the drawing board on this one after the Methodists get it all sorted out, if they ever do. They seem best at kicking this can down the road rather than having the wherewithall to decide and get on with it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  15. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Full communion means, among other things, that pastors in one church have full status in the other. There are specific organizational details to be arranged for assignment, supervision, and support. It’s not something that is transitive.

    Another example. The agreement between the EC and ELCA presumably means they recognize each other’s bishops. (I haven’t read the actual agreement.) The ELCA is willing to have an agreement with the PCUSA that doesn’t involve bishops. But the EC isn’t, because bishops are more fundamental to them.

    Full communion isn’t just about sharing communion. The mainline denominations all do that already.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  16. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It’s not dead. But it is on hold. United Methodist Church and Episcopal Church put full communion plans on hold | The United Methodist Church No matter what happens there will be a mainline Methodist church, whatever its scope and name. The delay may not even be because of the possible split. It needs action by the GC, and it’s unclear when the next one will be, and whether it will be dedicated to just organization. Doing agreements like this has been a long-standing practice. It’s unlikely to change with whatever group ends up as the mainline version of the Church.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Sure. But if we can work that sort of stuff out with, for example, ministers in the Church of South India, I can't see why other groups would be different in principle.

    What I mean is, we might recognise the ordination of someone in TEC, but if they wish to take up an Australian post all those organisational details need to be worked out anyway (as well as things like the legal background checks required in Australia etc. etc.) But jumping through the administrative/bureaucratic hoops is different than saying we don't recognise your ordination as valid in our organisation.
     
  18. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

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    And, how will we know which group ends up as the mainline version of the (UMC) church? Won't each thump their chest and say, "It's us!"
     
  19. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I’m pretty sure the last thing the conservatives would call themselves is mainline. They also would have no interest in full communion agreements with the EC or other mainline bodies.
     
  20. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

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    And among the other two proposed bodies?
     
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