Bush demands Israel

[Fish]

Trying to give balance to a forum that is populated
by close-minded individuals that harbor racist ideas
and are too stubborn to admit it. It only becomes
uncomfortable for you all when someone wants to
discuss your stands on the mideast problem. Decades
of shooting rock-throwing kids could be regarded as
sinful, but these kids now have guns and explosives.
Israel is using the aftermath of 911 to deal with their
Palestinian "problem", and you all are angry at Bush
for rebuking them. This discussion is far from beaten to death, but just becoming uncomfortable for you all.
I do have a problem with "Christians" willing to jump
into WWIII for some misinterpretation of the bible.
Let's discuss it some more. My reference to the U.S.S,
Liberty was ignored quickly enough. Just for fun, each of you should research that topic, and note the coverup
that followed.
Fish

 

[amie]

Originally posted by Fish
Trying to give balance to a forum that is populated
by close-minded individuals that harbor racist ideas
and are too stubborn to admit it.

Ouch Fish you've got quite a bite on you...allright all you "close-minded, stubborn individuals harboring racist ideas" knock it off!

 

[solo66 man]

Originally posted by coastie
Solo,

I agree whole heartedly, but pulling Israel out of Palestine would also have it's benefits. If Israel makes the first step toward peace and Palestine attacks or bombs them again, then they really have something to fight about since they made the first step toward peace.

Violence and war should always be avoided, but even the strongest dam will break under enough pressure.

At this point war is inevitable. Peace is still way off on the horizon. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

God Bless

That is precisely the point. Every time the Irealites pull back, the palesinians start suicide bombing again. It has reached proportions of ridiculousness. If that were happening here, we would just go bomb them out of existance.

 

[solo66 man]

Originally posted by amie
I couldn't agree more Solo...how did you get to be so smart
Amie

Certainly not as smart as you.

 

[Fish]

Not trying to bite anyone. But the horrors of WWII
should not be used to absolve Israel for their actions
now. Many ethnic groups have suffered , and the Jews
do not hold a monopoly on suffering. In the 1940's the Jews were doing the terror and bombings, but to bring that up is dismissed as living in the past. To say that
the Palestinians should just go home, or back to
where they come from is silly, as that is what they are
trying to do. Living in a refugee camp for 30 years or
more makes people a little angry, so does suffering
brutal treatment by their oppressors. Once you all see
that this is not a tidy little squirmish with the "evil"
Arabs on one side, and the "good" Jews on the other,
you may realize that the answers are not so tidy. The
majority here seems to think that bombing the whole
Palestinian population into oblivion is a viable and
"Godly" option. That is what I am lashing out against.
The supposed Christians here have a mean and bloodthirsty streak that should be recognized. Yes,
the attacks on New York were horrifying, but blanket
hatred for a large segment of the world's population is
not good and certainly not "Christian". I will let the
issue rest, as I see that it will do little to change the
attitudes here. Just remember that the issues are not
black and white.
Fish

 

[coastie]

Fish, I do not disagree with the fact that this isn't black and white.

Both sides have committed some attrocities. Both sides will eventually pay for it. Hate is wrong no matter who is the one doing it.

However, appearing to take the side of the Palestinian's is not a good way of convincing people that there is blame on both sides of the fense. I feel that if I had to pick one, the Palestinains are the greatest evil because of their terrorist tactics.

I do not wish for war. I am not racist, and who are you to question our faith in or our standing with GOD? Do not make a general statements like:

The supposed Christians here have a mean and bloodthirsty streak that should be recognized.

Do not question my faith or pretend to know my motives and beliefs.
This greatly lowers your credibility.

God Bless

 

[amie]

Fish,
I do not appreciate the judgements nor the accusations that you are making..."bloodthirsty" and so on and so forth...completely unecessary and that is going to get this conversation going nowhere...you do not know us on a personal level, and if you are going to resort to insults and slanderous statements then you are going to damage the integrity of yourself...

 

[Kiwi]

Your right, I don't agree with American foreign policy, not necessary americans in general, but with their foreign policy. I have many american friends and have travelled widely, meeting Americans all over the world. Many are generously and friendly people.However many people think of america like an over-bearing big brother trying to stick his nose into other peoples business. You (as coming from another country) continually feel like you are being patronized. Comments like "if you are not for us, you are against us"(pres. bush) and "this may happen in other places but never in america" (comment on tv after september 11) and "let's bomb them into the next century" are not exactly wonderful for fostering foreign relation. It can comes across as condescending and self righteous. This is a shame because most americans are not like this, at least not the ones I've met (except for some of the ones on this board). Try to imagine this, Canada's president demands that Pres. Bush pull his troops out of Afganistan, wouldn't you just laugh, it would be amusing no? That's why I find it amusing that Bush DEMANDED it, instead of suggesting it (it's true, I saw him say it on TV). Anyway all, I am not anti-american, I don't mean to get your nationalism up, be proud to be an American but be aware there it is one of many different countries that make up this world.

 

[coastie]

I think that your problem is that you are looking at this situation from a "Canada/New Zealand" point of view. As for Israel, we are it, without us, the UN would come crashing in on their heads just like the rest of the middle eastern nations.

The US and UK are it. It would be stupid for Israel to not adhere to any demands made by Pres. Bush.

I don't understand why you have such a problem with Bush "demanding Israel" leave Palestine if you agree with his decision. Sounds to me like you may be a little torn on the issue, or is it that no matter what the US does, you'll be unhappy with it?

 

[Kiwi]

It it a problem to look at something from a New Zealand point of view? I only used Canada as an example because it's the closest country to you with similar culture. It is always good to get the point of view from somewhere (or one) who is not close to you. I lived out of my country for 4 years and on coming back was able to see many things that I had never noticed before, because when you are brought up in a place you think all other places are like that (or at least they should be). I am bowing out of this discussion because I realize it is useless to try and convey an outsiders point of view, and the fact that by virture of not being american I am in fact an outsider in this discussion

 

[coastie]

You are probably right.

It was a pleasure argueing... er ... uh debating with you

The problem is that it is hard to see things from our point of view. (edited: sorry no disrespect intended, shoudl have re-read post before posting, came off sounding more negative than I intended) What I was getting at is, yes, I think it's time to agree to disagree.




God Bless, I hope to see you again.

Zach

 

[niwde]

i think the situation in the middle east needs to come to a stop
i know that many people become upset because of this issue
americans,jews,palestinians,arabs and people around the world
but the problem is that i do not understand why the people involved r making a big mess (americans,israelis,palestinians,arabs)
u see
all of them want to have peace
but how?
all parties must of course sacrifice certain things to obtain it
my version of obtaining peace in the middle east is simple
first all fightings and killings must stop then
both palestinains and israelis and maybe americans must sent representitives to set up a high commision
the plan is to make a Israel that consist of a plural society like my country,malaysia
the commision must discuss about the making of a new constitution so that all rights of the people r secured(whether they r chinese ,indians,jews,palestinians ,britons,french,turks,ararabs blah blah blah)
the new israel will consist of the old israel,west bank,gaza strip.
palestinians r given citizenship of israel
given same rights as israelis to study, work, sleep,pray and the list goes on
but i guess it will be crowded to fit all palestinians and israelis together in 1 small stirp of land
so this where the other arabs comes in
it is possible for egypt to "donate"part of sinai peninsular and syria to "donate golan heights or maybe further in and lebenon to "donate"certain parts of its territory the americans can fund the projects to build houses and stuff like that
once everything is mix up like that they can have peace and integrate with each other
i know this sounds kinda stupid and somehow hard to achieve but hey where there is a will there is a way
if i were given a chance to speak in the UN general assembly i would definitely bring this issue up

 

[Fish]

To suppose that the Palestinians would enjoy equal
rights as citizens of Israel is silly. I am afraid that any
position against Israel's policies mean that I am pro
Palestinian, but that is to be expected.
If I see wrongdoing anywhere, should I mask it
if the wrongdoer is Israel? You all should try to
educate yourselves without the aid of brother Ed,
or any other preacher promoting his own agenda.

 

[Fish]

The Golan Heights?

 

[niwde]

if they want peace they must pay the price

 

[Fish]

They have lost their homes and many of their children.
What price for peace do you prefer? They have not
much else to lose, other than the box they live in
in the "refugee" camp. They are grateful for the
food and water that they are allowed to get, I am sure.
Fish

 

[Fish]

I agree.
Fish

 

[Fish]

Ooops. I meant I agree with thedoc.

 

[eldermike]

My personal two cents worth follows: (humbly follows) I believe we sometimes forget that the first job of any elected official of our nation is to protect and defend our nation and interests. We sometimes believe that doing what is right always lines up properly with this objective. Because we are a nation with many citizens from this region we have differing opinions on possible solutions and positions. Not everyone is going to be satisfied with our nations decisions (understatement). I for one, will have to leave it to the ones we elected to make the decisions based upon the mandate (by sworn oath) that our interests come first. Any other approach is dangerous. We are the US, we are not the UN. I personally believe that our nation is acting correctly. Without us Israel could not exist, we have the right to call them off. Without us, the Arab states would have their hands full with Israel and as recent history reminds us, with each other, so; they need us also. Anyone that believes that peace in this region is as simple as changing US policy or Israeli policy is asleep. We would be making new maps of the entire region as a full time occupation if it were not for the US. Peace is a concept in the mid-east, it still remains untried.

From a Christian perspective, it is my prayer that this ends soon, and that as scripture tells us:
PS 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:

"May those who love you be secure.



Blessings

 

[Fish]

Now that is a post made by someone with a level head.
Fish