Burning the American Flag

[Aryeh Jay]

Back when there was no perpetual war, the flag was supposed to be decommissioned (burned eventually) if it touched the ground.

It is based, partially, on maritime Law (like most of the legislative system). I don't think people care anymore, but when I was coming up you would break your leg before you let the flag touch the ground.

FACT CHECK: Should a U.S. Flag Be Burned Once It Has Touched the Ground?

 

[Kaon]

FACT CHECK: Should a U.S. Flag Be Burned Once It Has Touched the Ground?

Snopes is making its own conclusion by marginalizing the law, and injecting what civilians tend to do. We know civilians don't care about the flag, but a soldier would burn the flag because LETTING the flag touch something beneath it is a disgrace, and as I said before, comes from particular maritime laws that stipulate the condition of the nation with respect to flag orientation.

Snopes has forgotten it's history, and is ignoring the massively architectured framework of legislation based on maritime Law in the States. Honor compels one to dispose of a flag properly.

It is a matter of conviction, not law. When patriotism was defensible (like I said, before perpetual war,) a disrespectful act such as a flag touching the ground was met with an equally dramatic disposal method.

Notice Snopes doesn't even say it is NOT TRUE (because they cant rather, it is a "misconception." The misconception comes a superficial understanding of the act of burning a flag.

 

[RDKirk]

OK. Thank you for responding.

I just wonder why our President gets so upset when people burn the flag? Does he just gets upset when they do it in protest?

Because he sees it as disrespect.

The president is not equal to the flag.

And the flag is not equal to the nation.

And this nation is not equal to heaven.

 

[RDKirk]

Is it immoral to burn the American flag?

I know a lot of people have a problem with it, and it sometimes incites violence. But I am curious what you thought. But is it really disrespectful to our President when God says we are to respect our leaders, even if we disagree?

Would a Spirit-Filled Christian participate in the burning of the flag?

You do realize that Christianity is not confined to the US, nor are questions about Christian morality confined to Americans, right?

Morality that is true to Christ works the same for Christians everywhere.

How does that question work for Christians in North Korea? Or in Iran? Or in China?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Snopes is making its own conclusion by marginalizing the law, and injecting what civilians tend to do. We know civilians don't care about the flag, but a soldier would burn the flag because LETTING the flag touch something beneath it is a disgrace, and as I said before, comes from particular maritime laws that stipulate the condition of the nation with respect to flag orientation.

Snopes has forgotten it's history, and is ignoring the massively architectured framework of legislation based on maritime Law in the States. Honor compels one to dispose of a flag properly.

It is a matter of conviction, not law. When patriotism was defensible (like I said, before perpetual war,) a disrespectful act such as a flag touching the ground was met with an equally dramatic disposal method.

Notice Snopes doesn't even say it is NOT TRUE (because they cant rather, it is a "misconception." The misconception comes a superficial understanding of the act of burning a flag.

I have been in the Military since 1988 and only hear this nonsense from former Boy Scouts and new recruits that were probably taught that in the Boy Scouts.

I realize that there is a portion that refuses to believe anything Snoops says because they are commie Nazis that hate America.

Here is the American Legion saying the same thing. I don’t like them because they supported Fascists like Mussolini before the War.

American Flag Display FAQ | The American Legion

Patriot Wood says it too, but he may be a closet Communist and it is a blog.

5 Common American Flag Myths


The American Legion Aux also says the same story but they may just be fascist wives…

Top 8 flag etiquette myths

I wouldn’t trust these guys because they sell flags…

Common Myths and Misconceptions About the American Flag - Star Spangled Flags


Liberal fake news agrees, so it must be false…

8 American flag facts you may not know

These sky diver think it is a myth about burning but the regularly land on the flag and if they were so cool, they would be in SEAL Team 6.

American Flag Code- Team Fastrax™ Professional Skydiving Team


These guys seem like Liberal losers.

http://www.profileoverlays.com/happy-flag-day-8-american-flag-myths-debunked/


Liberal Charity, probably liars like Snoops.

Top 10 Myths About The American Flag

Liberal news and pictures of Boy Scouts.

5 things to know about caring for your American flag — and how to retire it

Even more…

Top 10 Things to Remember About Flag Retiring - Nevada Department of Veterans Services

Repair & Disposal of Worn Flags - U.S. Flag Store

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/09/24/10-things-know-flag-etiquette/

9 Ways You're Direspecting the Flag

Flag Etiquette | A Guide to Storing and Displaying the Flag

What Happens When the Flag Touches the Ground?


So I have looked and looked for you and have found nothing that says the flag is to be burned if it touches the ground and quite a few that say the opposite. You will probably be able to discount all of them as being part of Obamas deep state or a conspiracy against you.

By the way, the Snoop's site had a BIG RED FALSE and not misconception.

 

[RDKirk]

You don't have to burn the flag, but you do have to burn the guy who let it touch the ground.

 

[Kaon]

I have been in the Military since 1988 and only hear this nonsense from former Boy Scouts and new recruits that were probably taught that in the Boy Scouts.

I realize that there is a portion that refuses to believe anything Snoops says because they are commie Nazis that hate America.

Your mind is in disarray; you clearly have an entire potato patch on your shoulder - barking up 1) the wrong tree with me, and 2) the wrong context, arguing things I have never said but, rather what you want to project.

This is what I said that got you calling me an American hating commie boy scout:

Back when there was no perpetual war, the flag was supposed to be decommissioned (burned eventually) if it touched the ground.

It is based, partially, on maritime Law (like most of the legislative system). I don't think people care anymore, but when I was coming up you would break your leg before you let the flag touch the ground.

To which you replied:

FACT CHECK: Should a U.S. Flag Be Burned Once It Has Touched the Ground?

As if I said this was a law. What exactly did I say?

...
It is a matter of conviction, not law. When patriotism was defensible (like I said, before perpetual war,) a disrespectful act such as a flag touching the ground was met with an equally dramatic disposal method.

...

Now, you want to go on this tirade:

Here is the American Legion saying the same thing. I don’t like them because they supported Fascists like Mussolini before the War.

American Flag Display FAQ | The American Legion

Patriot Wood says it too, but he may be a closet Communist and it is a blog.

5 Common American Flag Myths


The American Legion Aux also says the same story but they may just be fascist wives…

Top 8 flag etiquette myths

I wouldn’t trust these guys because they sell flags…

Common Myths and Misconceptions About the American Flag - Star Spangled Flags


Liberal fake news agrees, so it must be false…

8 American flag facts you may not know

These sky diver think it is a myth about burning but the regularly land on the flag and if they were so cool, they would be in SEAL Team 6.

American Flag Code- Team Fastrax™ Professional Skydiving Team


These guys seem like Liberal losers.

http://www.profileoverlays.com/happy-flag-day-8-american-flag-myths-debunked/


Liberal Charity, probably liars like Snoops.

Top 10 Myths About The American Flag

Liberal news and pictures of Boy Scouts.

5 things to know about caring for your American flag — and how to retire it

Even more…

Top 10 Things to Remember About Flag Retiring - Nevada Department of Veterans Services

Repair & Disposal of Worn Flags - U.S. Flag Store

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/09/24/10-things-know-flag-etiquette/

9 Ways You're Direspecting the Flag

Flag Etiquette | A Guide to Storing and Displaying the Flag

What Happens When the Flag Touches the Ground?


So I have looked and looked for you and have found nothing that says the flag is to be burned if it touches the ground and quite a few that say the opposite. You will probably be able to discount all of them as being part of Obamas deep state or a conspiracy against you.

By the way, the Snoop's site had a BIG RED FALSE- and not misconception.

based on your own misunderstanding in context. Do you see how you expose yourself?

By the way, I meant everything I said before, and in this post. And, while the politically correct thing to say is "thank you for your service," which is appreciated, you weren't the only one in the US military - and 1988 is only 30 years ago (compared to some veteran tenures on these forums). So, lets throw around the military card very carefully - especially when you are already on the side of misunderstanding and hyperbole.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Said only by people who do not understand the international protocol for flag positions.

An upside down flag is like a call to 911. It is a situation where emergency help is needed.

It is also used in defiance and protest against the United States. As I demonstrated...

 

[Kaon]

You don't have to burn the flag, but you do have to burn the guy who let it touch the ground.

I think only one person said it was a law to burn the flag - and I may have misunderstood that person as well.

Clearly there are military cultural and generational differences. (under/over)Zealous companies? I don't know or really care. I know what I was told.

 

[Dave-W]

It is also used in defiance and protest against the United States.

Where is that historically codified?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Your mind is in disarray; you clearly have an entire potato patch on your shoulder - barking up 1) the wrong tree with me, and 2) the wrong context, arguing things I have never said but, rather what you want to project.

This is what I said that got you calling me an American hating commie boy scout:




To which you replied:



As if I said this was a law. What exactly did I say?



Now, you want to go on this tirade:



based on your own misunderstanding in context. Do you see how you expose yourself?

By the way, I meant everything I said before, and in this post. And, while the politically correct thing to say is "thank you for your service," which is appreciated, you weren't the only one in the US military - and 1988 is only 30 years ago (compared to some veteran tenures on these forums). So, lets throw around the military card very carefully - especially when you are already on the side of misunderstanding and hyperbole.

I did not call you an American hating Commie Boy Scout.

You are correct Sir, the laws were changed and I am the potato patch having First Sergeant that is trying to rewrite history with my commie and fascist friends at Snoops. Good Catch, I should just stick to spreading lies to my troops.
Thirty years is too long and I should retire to my mother’s basement with my Che poster and
Looser friends on Reddit.

 

[Dave-W]

US flag:

USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - Flag Etiquette
United States Flag Code | The American Legion
Upside Down Flag

International flag:

PPO - Flag Etiquette
https://protocol.un.org/dgacm/pls/site.nsf/files/unflag/$FILE/flag code.pdf
Customary IHL - Practice Relating to Rule 62. Improper Use of Flags or Military Emblems, Insignia or Uniforms of the Adversary

 

[Kaon]

I did not call you an American hating Commie Boy Scout.

You are correct Sir, the laws were changed and I am the potato patch having First Sergeant that is trying to rewrite history with my commie and fascist friends at Snoops. Good Catch, I should just stick to spreading lies to my troops.
Thirty years is too long and I should retire to my mother’s basement with my Che poster and
Looser friends on Reddit.

Do whatever you think is right.

 

[Kaon]

I did not call you an American hating Commie Boy Scout.

You are correct Sir, the laws were changed and I am the potato patch having First Sergeant that is trying to rewrite history with my commie and fascist friends at Snoops. Good Catch, I should just stick to spreading lies to my troops.
Thirty years is too long and I should retire to my mother’s basement with my Che poster and
Looser friends on Reddit.

To be completely objective, I actually like your posts on these forums in general. I just (vehemently) disagree with you on this thing.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Where is that historically codified?

I don't care about any code that is meant to show respect to it or protect it from being damaged. I don't care if the American flag is hung upside down or burned to the ground in ashes in a protest against the United States government or for any other political or social justice issue. But I do know there is protocol for hanging the flag upside down in times of distress. There are American citizens who hung the American flag upside down as a sign of distress and protest against Trump. There's also another news story of an Army veteran who hung the American flag upside down in protest against part of DAPL being run through his land. Part of his land and other landowners' land was taken by eminent domain by the Texas-based company that owns the pipeline. I've protested outside of company's Dallas headquarters myself with the Central Texas American Indian Movement. We also walked by the CEO's house chanting and some of the other water protectors burnt sage. AIM always had a good sized crowd show up in support of their organized demostrations against DAPL.

U.S. flag flown upside-down to protest President Trump

Man protests SWFL water crisis by flipping American flag upside down

Donald Trump wants to outlaw flag burning, so people are doing this instead

Criminal Complaint Issued to Man for Displaying Upside Down American Flag with AIM on it

Long Island Veteran Flies American Flag Upside Down in Protest of President Trump, Upsetting Neighbors and Vets

 

[RDKirk]

No. Burning it in protest is unpatriotic.

What, specifically, is wrong with being unpatriotic?

That was, after all, the reason Christians were persecuted by the Romans.

 

[Sabertooth]

What, specifically, is wrong with being unpatriotic?

That was, after all, the reason Christians were persecuted by the Romans.

I was just contrasting that with immoral & unethical. That should be considered in such a demonstration.

 

[RDKirk]

I was just contrasting that with immoral & unethical. That should be considered in such a demonstration.

Christians were immoral, unethical, and unpatriotic from the imperial Roman standpoint--and demonstrably so.

So what, exactly, is wrong with that?

 

[Sabertooth]

Christians were immoral, unethical, and unpatriotic from the imperial Roman standpoint--and demonstrably so.

Semantically, you could argue "immoral," but "unethical" speaks to a higher standard.

I am not making a value judgment on "unpatriotic," just demoting it from the status of "unethical." "Unpatriotic" is comparable to being rude. There are times when it is appropriate to be rude, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.

 

[RDKirk]

Semantically, you could argue "immoral," but "unethical" speaks to a higher standard.

Well, to get down to the semantics of those definitions, based on the etymologies of the words, I consider "morality" to be a society's values of right and wrong and the actions derived from them. A society's morality is what it is. It may or may not have been determined rationally and it may or may not be consistent in the actions derived from it. Most individuals merely drift within their society's morality.

I consider "ethics," on the other hand, to be the system used by an individual to determine the actions that lead consistently to a desired end good. A person's ethics will always be rationally determined and his actions will derive rationally from his ethical system. An ethical action according to one person's ethical system might be different from an ethical action in another person's system even in the same situation if they have different desired end goals.

In that regard, I would say Socrates and Jesus were highly ethical in that they both scrupulously followed individual ethical systems to determine actions that consistently lead to a desired end good. But neither Socrates nor Jesus were moral as far as their societies were concerned.

I am not making a value judgment on "unpatriotic," just demoting it from the status of "unethical." "Unpatriotic" is comparable to being rude. There are times when it is appropriate to be rude, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.

I would regard "patriotism" as being a society moral value. A person's ethics may require him to take unpatriotic actions in a given society to achieve his own desired end good. At the same time, another man may judge those actions as unethical by his system of ethics and another society may judge those actions to be patriotic and moral.