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Featured Bride’s Fathers Permission for Marriage

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Archivist, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

    +4,193
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Republican
    Why would I expect my wife to obey me? I live in a democracy that believes in equality and I hold a Christian faith that tell us that in Christ there is neither male nor female.

    As an example, in ancient Mesopotamia, payment of the families of the bride and groom to each other (the dowry and bride-price) was required for a marriage to be valid. "According to Hammurabi’s Code, a suitor who changed his mind would forfeit his entire deposit (betrothal gift) and bride-price. If the prospective father-in-law changed his mind, he had to pay the disappointed suitor double the bride-price. Futhermore, if a rival suitor persuaded the father-in-law to change his mind, not only did the father-in-law have to pay double, but the rival wasn’t allowed to marry the daughter."

    The quote is from Love, Sex, and Marriage in Ancient Mesopotamia, available here: Love, Sex, and Marriage in Ancient Mesopotamia. You had said that you only wanted one source, but I could certainly supply more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  2. msortwell

    msortwell Senior Member

    +96
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    You remain one short in the provision of AUTHORITATIVE sources. The question is, does the OT prescribe, or positively describe, the marriage transaction as simply a transfer of property?
     
  3. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There are several excellent treatises on the subject, but I can't exactly send you books.

    Except that isn't the question your asked and sorry, I am not psychic. I never claimed that the Old Testament prescribed, or positively described, the marriage transaction as simply a transfer of property. I said that is how it was practiced. It was done so under Babylonian, Greek and Roman Law. It was done so throughout the Musdle Ages.

    To my knowledge the only such requirements in the OT deal with money payment following a rape.

    Oh, and typing words in all caps really does not add anything to your post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  4. msortwell

    msortwell Senior Member

    +96
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    In my original request, I asked if you could provide an "authoritative" source for your assertion that ancient marriages were merely property exchanges. In that simple request, I underlined "authoritative" trying to emphasize that I was looking for evidence from Scripture. The degree to which any other source should be considered reliable is debatable. What you provided was a single academic paper that described primarily pagan marriage practices with no reference to the biblical record. So I further emphasized that I was looking for an authoritative reference by using all caps. But all of the underlining, bolding, and use of capital in the world doesn't help if we don't share a common understanding about what "authoritative" means in this context. If we shared a coomon understanding of "authoritative" you would not have had to have been psychic - my mistake. So, in future discussions, please understand that any reference I make to an authoritative source will be, by necessary implication, the Bible. I will try to be clearer.

    When I seek to understand how marriage ought to be practice, I look to seek what the Bible prescribes or describes. It was a foreign notion to me to give any significant consideration to pagan practices - with the possible value afforded by contrasting the with the processes and precepts in the Bible.
     
  5. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

    +4,193
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Republican
    I will try to remember that, but it would be easier for you to just say that you are just asking for something from the Bible. Sorry I misunderstood what you were after, but remember that Hammurabi’s Code would have been considered "authoritative," as would the Roman Justinian Code or, for that matter, the current United States Code, since all are "able to be trusted as being accurate or true." Authoritative and Biblical are two different things.

    That is why I was clear in the OP--we are talking about a practice that traces its roots to ancient contract law. It has remained as a simple tradition and should be abolished.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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