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Featured Bride’s Fathers Permission for Marriage

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Archivist, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Wagner's Wedding March is always available. In fact, it seems strange that Pachelbel should be talked about as if it were the one and only, the standard, etc.
     
  2. Magillacuddy

    Magillacuddy From the dark, to the light...

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    Why should it not be done?

    If the whole patriarchy thing gets you down, don't do it.

    I did it as a sign of respect to my in laws. After all, we have had to deal with them for a very long time.

    Certainly, a couple can do whatever they want, even out of spite. However, you will need to deal with your in laws, and it is much easier to submit to some silly thing, then cause heartburn for decades.

    Discern the situation and act accordingly. Or, stand your ground for nothing. That is how I see it.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Your post is quite reasonable, but I feel uneasy talking back to that picture of AOC. :eek:
     
  4. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Wagner being the other choice in the Eurosphere, yes, but I think Pachelbel is much more annoying because the progression itself has been so endlessly recycled in popular (non-wedding) music, whereas Wagner's wedding march hasn't suffered the same ignominy despite also being terrible.

    The chord progression used in Pachelbel's canon has proven popular enough that even when you're not hearing Pachelbel (as in, a recording of the canon itself), you still are hearing Pachelbel (the progression), and I think somehow, somewhere deep inside your brain, you know that. Or at least your brain does, even if you can't articulate it.

    I can't post it here because he uses a rude word for Pachelbel's bottom at the very end and this place requires squeaky-clean posts, but if you haven't seen it before, look up "Pachelbel Rant" by comedian Rob Paravonian and you'll see what I mean. I first started noticing it 25 years ago when I picked up the guitar, and I haven't stopped noticing it since...but boy do I want to.
     
  5. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

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    my husband didn't ask permission
    asking me to marry him was a spur of the moment thing and not planned (only been dating 2 mos)

    he picked me up next day to go to jewelry stores
    so had a say in picking ring & we showed ring to parents right after

    they didn't believe we were engaged, lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Yes, that's close to the way I see it, too. But even if we don't consider the non-wedding uses that you referred to, it has become too routine. The Wedding March never seems that way, perhaps because it is triumphant or celebratory or upbeat or something like--which we are ready for at the start of a wedding.
     
  7. Magillacuddy

    Magillacuddy From the dark, to the light...

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    Her brand of crazy is delicious. Why any sane human takes her serious, is the reason why I want to talk to those that take her serious. It's the lols man!

    We only have about ten years left now. Mount Outrageous will then erupt, showing us Gaia disapproves of humankind.
     
  8. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    A tweak here and there to wedding ceremonies is fine. The problem, though, seems to be that modern society has forgotten that a wedding is not two people declaring their "love", but announcement of a contract between the couple, family, community, and God. As long as it retains those elements, I don't really care how it's done.

    I'll also mention that despite modern sentiments, surveys I've seen continue to indicate interesting differences between men and women's expectations of marriage. For example, one survey showed men rarely expect their wife to provide financial security. They're largely OK with women working, but don't see it as a requirement of the marriage. Women, on the other hand, still have an expectation that if needed, the husband will provide that financial security. This goes hand-in-hand with the fact that single mothers are still one of the poorest segments of our modern society.

    Of course we need to add the required disclaimer that not all women have these expectations, and single mothers aren't poor because they're morally inferior. These are statistical studies. But it does raise the age-old question regarding how much of this is nature vs nurture along with the question of how hard we're going to push to make everyone an independent individual whether they want it or not vs accepting most people are going to be dependent on other people whether they want it or not.
     
  9. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    To tag along the reply ..." From a different perspective " .
    This is what I believe to be true . Many traditions had their start from what was considered orthodoxy . This can be observed in the Amish community where lifestyle is often associated with salvation .
    Abraham sent his servant to return to the land from which he came in order to choose a bride for Issac ( who was 40 years old ). This was , I believe , trying to do what they believed by faith was according to the will and purpose of God in order to fulfill prophecy and eventually create Israel .
    As the believer from Egypt inadvertently alluded , the modern idea of dating and being in love was not a practice in many eastern cultures . Paul attest to this when he instructs that the older women teach the younger women to love their husbands and love their children . It was understood that love could be taught and that the purpose of the church was to demonstrate the will of God and not the will of self .
    A believing Father would obviously care about the eternal destiny of his daughters ( and sons ) and has the advantage of ( hopefully ) having more wisdom than their children . Not to mention that the Father is not swayed by the temporary passions which is often mistakenly called "being in love. "
    So a shorter answer to your question ? For the sake of love , a father gave his permission .
     
  10. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    My first husband asked my Dad’s permission, I wouldn’t have said “yes” if he hadn’t.

    My second husband and I had been together awhile and we had a child, I never mentioned asking my Dad but he did anyway and I was touched.

    Do it, don’t do it. Nothing wrong with either choice.
     
  11. Messerve

    Messerve Well-Known Member

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    Hey, in his defense I believe it was him whose works were all forgotten for over a hundred years and then found in a sealed-off room somewhere finally. So he deserves a little air time. ^_^ The song is fine I think, but definitely overused for weddings.
     
  12. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

    +6,851
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  13. actionsub

    actionsub Mike, he's just this guy, you know?

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    My now son-in-law called me on the phone and asked me for my permission. I was, quite frankly, shocked. Not at the person asking, but the fact that he found it necessary to ask (it's not like they hadn't already been LIVING TOGETHER or anything...). That said, it gave me the opportunity to be thankful that it was this particular guy asking to marry my daughter and not some of the other slugs she had dated.
    But I really didn't expect it; I just took it for granted they would get married. I did, however, balk at the "giving the bride away" part, since she'd been living on her own since high school (her mother and I divorced and we "outsourced" her parenting to allow her to finish at the small town high school where she started rather than the larger high schools in the towns where her mom and I respectively ended up).
     
  14. actionsub

    actionsub Mike, he's just this guy, you know?

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    It could be worse. For the prelude music leading up to the bridal entry, my daughter chose a Chris Tomlin song. Son-in-law opted for Oasis' "Wonderwall".
     
  15. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    Uuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :sick:
     
  16. msortwell

    msortwell Senior Member

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    It is generally understood that seeking the permission of a father to wed a daughter, in most cases in our current culture, including in our churches, is absurd. But this is not because in-and-of-itself it is contrary to biblical precepts. It is absurd because, in MOST cases the potential bride (and prospective groom) have had little, if any, interest in the views of the father up until that point. Most times, the bridal prospect has been considered "too old" to give considerable credence to parental influences for years prior to "seeking permission." The prospective couple is generally seeking blanket agreement with their autonomously-arrived-upon intent.

    This is NOT how those honestly trying to apply biblical precepts would approach the matter. I was involved with one pair of families who agreed upon the importance of parental involvement (in general), and paternal authority/responsibility (in particular). They saw each as indispensable in the marriage decision-making process. The following marriage "ceremony" model was intended to properly reflect the responsibility and authority of the parents involve.

    After prayer, the minister/pastor shall say, "Who giveth this woman to be married (to this man)?

    Bride’s Father: I do.

    Groom’s Father - to the father of the Bride: As [Bride’s Name]’s father, having raised her, watched over her, guarded her, and loved her - and having opportunity to diligently assess the merits and weaknesses of [Grooms Name]’s character and means - have you determined it to be God’s will that you release your daughter from your direct headship, and the watchcare of your home, for the purpose of [Bride’s Name] joining with [Groom’s Name] in the covenant of marriage - [Groom’s Name] then being [Bride’s Name]‘s head, under Christ?

    [Bride’s Father’s Name]: Yes, I have.

    [Bride’s Father’s Name]: [Groom’s Father’s Name], as [Groom’s Name]’s father, having raised him, watched over him, counseled him, and loved him - and having opportunity to diligently assess the merits and weaknesses of [Bride’s Name]’s character and abilities - have you found her to be a godly young woman and determined it to be God’s will that you counsel your son to pursue [Bride’s Name]’s hand in marriage?

    [Groom’s Father’s Name]: Yes, I have.

    [Bride’s Father’s Name] shall place [Bride’s Name]'s right hand into [Groom’s Name]'s right hand.

    [Groom’s Father’s Name]: [Groom’s Name], Will you take [Bride’s Name] to be your wedded wife, to live life with her after God's commandments in the holy estate of marriage? And will you love her, honor and cherish her, so long as you both shall live?

    [Groom’s Name]: I will.

    [Bride’s Father’s Name]: [Bride’s Name], Will you take [Groom’s Name] to be your wedded husband, to live life with him after God's commandments in the holy estate of marriage? And will you love him, cherish and obey him, so long as you both shall live?

    [Bride’s Name]: I will.

    Fathers step aside.

    Pastor continues in the service by administering the vows, and ultimately declaring the marriage covenant entered.​
     
  17. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have issues with the word obey and of giving the bride away, but this does look like a beautiful ceremony. However, remember that the original purpose for asking the father’s permission had nothing to do with Biblical principles. It was a simple property transfer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  18. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

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    Your son-in-law sounds like a fantastic guy :D

    Nothing wrong with a bit of Oasis, guv!
     
  19. msortwell

    msortwell Senior Member

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    Issues with obey? I am not surprised.

    Regarding "a simple property transfer" . . . Serious question . . . Authoritative source?
     
  20. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Member

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    Asking the permission of the father to marry his daughter is but a cultural tradition and is understandably done out of respect for and courtesy towards the potential bride’s family but interestingly, is not required by the scriptures.

    We, at least collectively speaking, are called the bride of Christ based on how the marital relationship is used as an illustration to describe the relationship between Christ and the Church. But Christ never asked anyone’s permission to make us His bride. Instead, He call us to repentance through Him.
     
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