Futurist Only Brexit, the EU, the little horn

[Douggg]

Thanks Douggg,

I agree those (PIGS) nations in the EU are weak. So how do you see the EU will `break in pieces and crush all the others,` (Dan. 2: 40)?

Marilyn.

Referring to Daniel 2:40, I think it is talking about the original Roman Empire because it follows the one kingdom of brass - the Greek empire in Daniel 2:39. Which it did pretty much crush the power of three previous kingdoms.

The Romans occupied Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's first coming. The end times fourth empire will occupy Jerusalem the last 42 months of the 7 years.

 

[Marilyn C]

Referring to Daniel 2:40, I think it is talking about the original Roman Empire because it follows the one kingdom of brass - the Greek empire in Daniel 2:39. Which it did pretty much crush the power of three previous kingdoms.

The Romans occupied Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's first coming. The end times fourth empire will occupy Jerusalem the last 42 months of the 7 years.

Hi Douggg,

Yes you are right the fourth kingdom (Rome) of the great image was the one referred to in Dan. 2: 40. My mistake.

Now looking at Dan. 7: 7 we see that that beastly kingdom, the final Gentile world Ruler will also `break in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. `

Where is it that you understand from scripture for the 42 months in Jerusalem by the A/C and his Federation?

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

Where is it that you understand from scripture for the 42 months in Jerusalem by the A/C and his Federation?

Hi Marilyn,

I am thinking the 42 months in Revelation 11:2, which, imo, correspond to the 42 months of Revelation 13:5, of the beast's rule from Jerusalem once the two witnesses are gone.

During that 42 months, the beast will go in and out of the temple, as well as the false prophet, as well an the living image of the beast (a statue incarnated by Satan).

The EU army will be an occupational force during that time, imo. Somewhat similar to when the Romans occupied Jerusalem during Jesus's day, with from what I read troops at Ft. Antonia.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

I am thinking the 42 months in Revelation 11:2, which, imo, correspond to the 42 months of Revelation 13:5, of the beast's rule from Jerusalem once the two witnesses are gone.

During that 42 months, the beast will go in and out of the temple, as well as the false prophet, as well an the living image of the beast (a statue incarnated by Satan).

The EU army will be an occupational force during that time, imo. Somewhat similar to when the Romans occupied Jerusalem during Jesus's day, with from what I read troops at Ft. Antonia.

Hi Douggg,

I see the 2 witnesses in the second half of the trib.

`..Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for 42 months. And I will give power to my 2 witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.` (Rev.11:2 & 3)

Also the `beast that comes out of the bottomless pit,` will kill them, and that `beast,` doesn`t come till half way through the trib.

Now you haven`t given me a scripture to show that the A/C rulers from Jerusalem.

Then we know that the EU does not like to go to war, and that the USA has the greatest army more than all the others together. So I don`t see the EU occupying Jerusalem.

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

I see the 2 witnesses in the second half of the trib.

`..Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for 42 months. And I will give power to my 2 witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.` (Rev.11:2 & 3)

Also the `beast that comes out of the bottomless pit,` will kill them, and that `beast,` doesn`t come till half way through the trib.

Hi Marilyn,

In my view, the two witnesses are in the first half. Which would necessitate that the person becomes the beast before the exact midpoint - since they will be killed by the beast near the end of their testimony.

What I base the person becoming the beast before the exact midpoint (day 1260) is two fold.

1. The abomination of desolation being the image of the beast set up in temple 1335 days before Jesus returns. Which would be on day 1185 on a timeline, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

Which in turn would mean that the person has become the beast before day 1185.

2. The 1260 day sequence in Revelation 12 being prior to the war in heaven, and Satan's remaining time of a time, times, half times.

In Revelation 11, the two witnesses are killed by the beast, ascend to heaven, followed by the 7th trumpet, which announces the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left.

Following the sequence in Revelation 12... first is the 1260 days (corresponding to the two witnesses testimony time of 1260 days) Revelation 12:6, then the war in the second heaven Revelation 7-9, then Satan's remaining short time of a time, times, half time Revelation 12:12-17.

Now you haven`t given me a scripture to show that the A/C rulers from Jerusalem.

Then we know that the EU does not like to go to war, and that the USA has the greatest army more than all the others together. So I don`t see the EU occupying Jerusalem.

I don't think I can find something directly, that over the course of the second half, that the beast rules from Jerusalem. But, the image of the beast, the statue that will come to life and speaks (incarnated by Satan) has to be in Jerusalem, in the temple, however, all during that time.

In Daniel 11:40-45, the beast is attacked from south, north, east. And in Revelation 16, the Euphrates is dried up so the Kings of the East, their armies, are less impeded.

In Zechariah 14:2, God brings all nations to battle against Jerusalem, at the time when Jesus returns.

So it would appear to me, that given the image of the beast being in the temple for 1335 days, that the beast himself would be there as well. And near the end of the 7 years, the beast being attack from south, north, east. And on the day that Jesus returns, Jesus removes the things that will have made the temple desolate, i.e. the beast, the image, the false prophet. I conclude that the beast will operate primarily out of Jerusalem. I could be wrong.
__________________________________

In regards to the other point you are making...

The United States is predominantly a Christian country - at present.

After the rapture though, it appears to me that the country will undergo a drastic change and would ally with a beast lead EU kingdom, giving them the vast military strength over the rest of the world, necessary for the beast to rule the world.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Douggg,

If we look at Daniel 12: 11, I think we see that it is 1,290 days from the sacrifice taken and A/D set to the cleansing.

`And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.` (Dan. 12: 11)

The Lord has come prior to that at the end of the A/C`s rule, 1,260 days. The Lord needs to connect again with Israel, they mourn, then appointments are made, King David and priests, and then.....they will cleanse the temple. Also the nations have to be judged as to whether they looked after the Jews in the trib, and thus will go into the millennium. It is a process.

Finally `Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days,` (Dan. 12: 12) That is the 15th of Adar (2) which is the feast of Purim, the celebration of Israel being delivered from their enemies.

Marilyn.

 

[keras]

Hi Douggg,

If we look at Daniel 12: 11, I think we see that it is 1,290 days from the sacrifice taken and A/D set to the cleansing.

`And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.` (Dan. 12: 11)

The Lord has come prior to that at the end of the A/C`s rule, 1,260 days. The Lord needs to connect again with Israel, they mourn, then appointments are made, King David and priests, and then.....they will cleanse the temple. Also the nations have to be judged as to whether they looked after the Jews in the trib, and thus will go into the millennium. It is a process.

Finally `Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days,` (Dan. 12: 12) That is the 15th of Adar (2) which is the feast of Purim, the celebration of Israel being delivered from their enemies.

Marilyn.

You have this prophecy of Daniel 12:11-12 correctly understood.
It is error to think the 1290 days and the 1335 days start before the 1260 days of Revelation.
All three time periods commence when the Anti-Christ leader of the World Govt comes to Jerusalem, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5-7 and sits in the Temple, declaring himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

 

[Marilyn C]

You have this prophecy of Daniel 12:11-12 correctly understood.
It is error to think the 1290 days and the 1335 days start before the 1260 days of Revelation.
All three time periods commence when the Anti-Christ leader of the World Govt comes to Jerusalem, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5-7 and sits in the Temple, declaring himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Hi keras,

Zech. 14: 1 & 2 refer to the final battle when the armies of the world surround Jerusalem. It does not prove that the A/C is there for his 42 months of rule.

Rev. 13: 5 - 7 refers to the 42 months he will rule, and not where he will rule from.

2 Thess. 2: 4 refers to the A/C sitting in the temple but not for the 42 months.

The world system of the final Gentile rule will be in Babylon as God`s words says.

`Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen,....` (Rev. 18: 2)

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

If we look at Daniel 12: 11, I think we see that it is 1,290 days from the sacrifice taken and A/D set to the cleansing.

`And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.` (Dan. 12: 11)

Hi Marilyn,

The way that verse is written, it could be taken two ways. One way is that the interval the daily sacrifice taken away and the abomination desolation setup is 1290 days.

The other way is two actions (1) the daily sacrifice taken away (2) the abomination desolation setup is 1290 days - to something.

I don't think the abomination of desolation will be delayed 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is take away - too much time.

____________________________________________
Another factor, the daily sacrifice is taken away in Daniel, in conjunction with the transgression of desolation - an act, not a thing (like the abomination of desolation). The 2Thessalonians2;4 act, of going in and sitting in the temple.

So I am seeing the stopping of the daily sacrifice as preceding two separate other actions.

1. stopping the daily sacrifice.

2. then (not long afterward) the Antichrist going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God, the transgression of desolation.

3. then a little later, the abomination of desolation statute image setup (1335 days before Jesus returns), which everyone will be required to worship. On day 1185 of the 7 years (2520 days).
___________________________________________________

Then from the day the abomination of desolation is setup (day 1185), 1290 days later something takes place. Which I take to be the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven.

Thus, from the day the abomination of desolation is setup...

(from day 1185) 1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven.
(from day 1185) 1335 days to Jesus's returning from Heaven down to earth.

Everything is keyed on the day the abomination of desolation is setup.

 

[Douggg]

All three time periods commence when the Anti-Christ leader of the World Govt comes to Jerusalem, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5-7 and sits in the Temple, declaring himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Where on the timeline in your scenario is the abomination of desolation setup to be worshiped?

Sitting in the temple is an action - not a thing setup.

The taking away of the daily sacrifice happens,

Then the transgression of desolation - sitting in the temple

Then the abomination of desolation thing - placed in the temple

 

[Douggg]

The taking away of the daily sacrifice happens,

Then the transgression of desolation - sitting in the temple

Then the abomination of desolation thing - placed in the temple

@keras,

The taking away of the daily sacrifice happens,

Then the transgression of desolation - sitting in the temple

God then has the person killed, Ezekiel 28:1-10
God then brings the person back to life. Isaiah 14:18-20

Then the abomination of desolation thing - placed in the temple

The image (a statue) made of the slain and brought back to life person.

Something like this...

I am thinking the statue image will be either made of gold or overlaid with gold, so that when Satan incarnates it, making it appear to come to life, it will give off a glowing, deity-like appearance.

 

[Douggg]

Finally `Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days,` (Dan. 12: 12) That is the 15th of Adar (2) which is the feast of Purim, the celebration of Israel being delivered from their enemies.

Hi Marilyn, 1335 days working back takes you to what event? What happens 1335 days before 15th of Adar (2)?

 

[Marilyn C]

`And he (false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.` (Rev. 13: 14 & 15)

These holograms are quite common now. Have you heard of them Douggg?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn, 1335 days working back takes you to what event? What happens 1335 days before 15th of Adar (2)?

Hi Douggg,

1,335 days is from the A/D about the middle of the trib.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

The way that verse is written, it could be taken two ways. One way is that the interval the daily sacrifice taken away and the abomination desolation setup is 1290 days.

The other way is two actions (1) the daily sacrifice taken away (2) the abomination desolation setup is 1290 days - to something.

I don't think the abomination of desolation will be delayed 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is take away - too much time.

____________________________________________
Another factor, the daily sacrifice is taken away in Daniel, in conjunction with the transgression of desolation - an act, not a thing (like the abomination of desolation). The 2Thessalonians2;4 act, of going in and sitting in the temple.

So I am seeing the stopping of the daily sacrifice as preceding two separate other actions.

1. stopping the daily sacrifice.

2. then (not long afterward) the Antichrist going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God, the transgression of desolation.

3. then a little later, the abomination of desolation statute image setup (1335 days before Jesus returns), which everyone will be required to worship. On day 1185 of the 7 years (2520 days).
___________________________________________________

Then from the day the abomination of desolation is setup (day 1185), 1290 days later something takes place. Which I take to be the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven.

Thus, from the day the abomination of desolation is setup...

(from day 1185) 1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven.
(from day 1185) 1335 days to Jesus's returning from Heaven down to earth.

Everything is keyed on the day the abomination of desolation is setup.

Hi Douggg,

If you measure the A/C`s rule from the A/D it is for 42 months (Rev. 13: 5) then that is 1,260 days. You are saying 1,335 days which is 75 days later.

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

If you measure the A/C`s rule from the A/D it is for 42 months (Rev. 13: 5) then that is 1,260 days. You are saying 1,335 days which is 75 days later.

No, I am backing the 1335 days into the last 75 days of the first half, so that the 1335 days end on the day Jesus descends down to earth from heaven.

(last 75 days of the first half) + (1260 days the second half) would bring 1335 days to the day Jesus returns.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Douggg,

1,335 days is from the A/D about the middle of the trib.

Marilyn, about the middle of the 7 years is day 1185 imo. That way all of the timeframes fit within the 7 years.

 

[Marilyn C]

No, I am backing the 1335 days into the last 75 days of the first half, so that the 1335 days end on the day Jesus descends down to earth from heaven.

Hi Douggg,

Yes I see you have done that. However `in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice & offering. ` (Dan. 9: 27) And so 1,185 is not the middle of 2,520 days, whereas 1,260 is. And 1,260 days or 42 months is the length of the A/C`s rule. (Rev. 13: 5)

 

[Douggg]

View attachment 269558

`And he (false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.` (Rev. 13: 14 & 15)

These holograms are quite common now. Have you heard of them Douggg?

I am not thinking holograms because for modern persons it can be seen as scientific trickery - and not something to be worshiped.

The image of the beast is actually in two stages.

First the false prophet has the people of the world make the image. So it is not even something the false prophet presents.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


This is important, imo, because making the image (a statue) themselves, the people of the world would know that it is made of inert lifeless materials.

So that when the image, comes to life, by a miracle by the false prophet to give life to the image, in the presence of the beast (a lying miracle, because it will be incarnated by Satan, who will be also worshiped in Revelation 13:4) it is going to be more believable as God-like power - like God breathing life into a formed mass of clay to create the first man.

 

[Marilyn C]

I am not thinking holograms because for modern persons it can be seen as scientific trickery - and not something to be worshiped.

The image of the beast is actually in two stages.

First the false prophet has the people of the world make the image. So it is not even something the false prophet presents.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


This is important, imo, because making the image (a statue) themselves, the people of the world would know that it is made of inert lifeless materials.

So that when the image, comes to life, by a miracle by the false prophet to give life to the image, in the presence of the beast (a lying miracle, because it will be incarnated by Satan, who will be also worshiped in Revelation 13:4) it is going to be more believable as God-like power - like God breathing life into a formed mass of clay to create the first man.

Hi Douggg,

Interesting thought and plausible. Though the people are told it is an image.