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Featured Brexit and bible prophecy

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. helmut

    helmut Member

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    Nonsene. The masses of Muslims in the UK are there due to the British empire resp. Commonwealth, e.g. people from Pakistan. From the EU, most people "flooding" the UK are Christians (e.g. Polish Catholics).

    The events in 2015 were a desaster, no politician wants to repeat it. The danger is greater that Europe betray her values (human rights etc.) by refusing refugees who flee from Islam (Arab christians, converts to Chistianity, or simply secular "Muslims").

    The Brexit is also a populist movement that threastens the British democracy. Farage, Orban, the German AfD, all are friends, and all are backed up by Russia (it was partly Russian money that allowed Farage to perform such a big campaign).

    As you know, I don't follow your speculations about that horn, but why don't you try Putin? He has managed to replace Cameron (as a result of the Brexit votum), he tries to undermine Europe in many ways ... and he is "the 8th of the G7".
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is no 3 1/2 year term in the bible. The closet thing to it is the time, times, half times. But that does not equate to exactly 3 1/12 years.

    You have gone off in to the realm of philosophizing.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is a big National Populist movement because of muslims flooding into the EU. The reason Turkey is not allowed in - is because of the flood of free travel under EU rules would just be a takeover of Europe.
     
  4. helmut

    helmut Member

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    What does "time" in that expression mean, if not "year?

    More "philosophizing" than you?
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    not an exact year.
     
  6. helmut

    helmut Member

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    Muslims are not flooding, but since some demagogues of the populist sort speak of Muslims flooding Europe, there are populist movements. Especially in regions where there are less Muslims than elsewhere. It is East Germany, which has a low percentages of foreigners living there, where the populist AfD is most strong.

    ...because Turkey is not democratic. Several coup-d'états barred Turkey from entering the EEC/EU, since she wanted to join in the early 1960s, then came Erdoghan and for some time the odds Turkey would enter the Union went higher, since he made democratic reforms. But then he turned around, teared the peace with the Kurdish PKK into pieces, and went more and more autocratic.
    There has always the theme of Turkey as an Muslim country, which caused some countries (Germany and others) to hesitate, but this is since long before there came many Muslims to Europe.

    This sounds like propaganda from Erdoghan, but the Turks have not enough people to take over Europe.

    The video you linked to is from one who in the very use of language betrays he is rather right-winged, one-sided. A party that risks the Netherlands might lose all the benefits of United Europe is called "protecting Holland" - well, like the Confederate States "protected" the Southern part of the USA.

    We don't need liars that exaggerate the problems with Muslims or other foreigners, we need people that remind the Europeans of the commandment "you shall not murder" - not only in relation to abortion, but also with respect to the thousands of refugees who die every year at the border of Europe (mostly in the Mediterranean). Not few of them Christians who flee from Muslim persecution.
     
  7. helmut

    helmut Member

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    Be more precise: what than?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is not a precise number of days. It is approximately a year.

    Your doctor tells you come back and see me in a year. You go to the appointment desk, and say, the doctor told me to come back in a year. So the person at the appointment desk makes an appointment for you - it is rarely an exact year later.
     
  9. helmut

    helmut Member

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    Why do you think the 3½ times should be interpreted as that?
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Because the time, times, half times can be a little more than exactly 3 1/2 years or a little less than 3 1/2 years.

    In the end times verses - the time, times, half times, the 42 months, the 1260 days are not exact equivalents of each other, although close to be being.

    In Revelation 11:2 - 42 months
    In Revelation 11:3 - 1260 days, the very next verse.

    In Revelation 12:6 - 1260 days
    In Revelation 12:14 - time, times, half time.

    In Revelation 13:5 - 42 months

    In Daniel 12:7 - time, times, half time
    In Daniel 12:11 - 1290 days
    In Daniel 12:12 - 1335 days
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Do you think, for example, the 1260 days of the two witnesses corresponds to the 42 months that the beast rules the earth in Revelation 13:5?

    Or would it make more sense that the 42 months that the nations control the outer court of the temple corresponds to the 42 months that the beast rules the earth in Revelation 13:5.

    The 42 months go together.

    Since the 1260 days is expressed in the very next verse of Revelation 11:3 - it is different, and is not an exact equivalent.

    Since the 42 months that the beast rules the earth - the 42 months are basically the second half.

    The 1260 days come before it.

    1260 days, then 3 1/2 days, then 1256.5 days (the 42 months) = 7 years total.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    All of the timeframes are on this chart. AoD (Abomination of Desolation) setup on day 1185 of the 7 years.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    helmut,

    In your bathroom,
    put all your cleaning materials together
    put all your shaving stuff together
    put all your tooth brushing stuff together

    In your bedroom
    put all your socks together
    put all your underwear together
    put all your shirts together
    put all your pants together

    In your kitchen
    put all your plates together
    put all your glasses together
    put all your forks together
    put all your spoons together
    put all your dish detergent together

    In your garage
    put all your wood screws together
    put all your screwdrivers together
    put all your nails together
    put all your sockets together

    In end times bible prophecy
    put the 42 months together
    put the time, times, half time together
    put the 1260 days together

    The first half
    1260 days Revelation 11:3, 12:6

    In the second half
    3 1/2 days, Revelation 11:11-12
    42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
    time, times, half time Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14
     
  13. helmut

    helmut Member

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    You said that 3½ years can be somewhat more or less than exactly 3½ years (this was the message of your doctor example). So this is no new thing.

    As I said, given the way the Bible treats time lengths, they are "exactly" the same.

    Probably the same time span.

    Probably the same time span.

    This are 43 months. Since Daniel does not reckon a year automatically as 12 months = 360 days, this could well be the "times, times, half time".

    This are 44.5 months. Since "times, times, half time" can be at most 44 months, this is definitely longer.

    Why not?

    It would be interesting to look on the symbolic meaning of these numbers, maybe there is a key why the time span is measured in different units even in consecutive verses.
     
  14. helmut

    helmut Member

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    I don't want to answer to your slander, but remember you of the question I already put here: Is Revelation for you only a means to build a time-line of future events, or does it have practical consequences for your present life?

    As you may know, cash is partly replaced by digital means (e.g. credit card, pay by app, etc.). There are even plans to abolish cash altogether. If this should happen, it would be easy to deny a person to buy or sell anything: just remove his bank accords etc. with some mouse-clicks. And there are even people here and there that have their RFID credit chip not in a card, but under their skin.
    So, in the light of Rev 13:16-17, I decided to use cash as far as possible, and not to support the trend toward cashless economy. And I'm satisfied that cash in my country is still more important than, say, in the US.

    Do come to that decision, I don't need to know who the beast is, I see a feature that is relevant even in our time.

    This is what prophecy is for: to guide us on our way. It is not for teaching us future things that will not influence our daily life, because they are future. When the beast will emerge, the ones who follow Jesus will discern it. We don't need to know it exactly by now, and we don't need a timeline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I agree to use cash as much as possible. I try to do the same.

    If you are concerned over the evil of the bankers, central bankers, and the direction they are pushing the world, in regards to have total control over people - then I agree.

    The banks are using your money and giving you nothing for it. Do you have negative interest rates in Germany? Negative interests rates should be illegal on depositors' money. They are punishing you for saving. Derivatives giant Deutsch bank is a disaster waiting to happen for the global banking system.

    The person who eventually becomes the beast may have a background in EU banking. Ezekiel 28:4-5.

    I see where you are from Germany. I spent 2 1/2 years in Zirndorf, outside of Nuremberg - while in the army, a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 12.

    time, times, half time - unknown in terms of days.*
    1290 days
    1335 days

    *Not exactly 42 months, not exactly 1260 days, not exactly 3 1/2 years. It approximates those.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I have before discussed this issue of the mis-matching time periods of Daniel and Revelation.
    Most people just cannot see how things will be changed by the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by a strike on the earth of a Coronal Mass Ejection. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, +
    Isaiah 13:13 plainly tells us; on that Day, the earth will be moved from her place.
    This must have an effect on our orbital speed and the time it takes for 1 year to pass. It is recorded in ancient documents and even the Bible proves that there were 12/ 30 day months in every 360 day year. [Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:4, = 150 days- Genesis 7:24]
    So we will go back to the original; a year of 360 days, which is as Daniel and Jesus tell us; 3 1/2 years will be exactly 42 months and 1260 days.
     
  18. helmut

    helmut Member

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    Is 13:13 refers to an earth quake that happened in the time if Isaiah, and in the other verses there is no mention of the earth moving or changing its orbit.

    Well, since a month was reckoned as 30 days even in times where we know for sure that the average length of a month was about 29.53056 days, these text do only prove that this rounding was used from the very beginning, there is no reason why we should think the length of a month was exactly 30 days in that time. And we are not compelled to interpret the verses you quoted the way you do. That's pure speculation with a very thin base.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Your unsupported opinion.
    I do not say the earth will change its orbital track, just speed it up by 5.24 days. It will hardly be noticed after the Day it happens.
    Plain reading of all the prophesies about this forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath, makes it clear it hasn't happened yet.
    The Lord will use His creation, the sun to literally fulfil all the vivid descriptions of what will happen on that Day. Isaiah 30:26a It will make the moon shine bright red, it will push aside our atmosphere facing the sun, it will darken the sky, it will shake the earth, it will burn up His enemies, and it will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus returns.
     
  20. helmut

    helmut Member

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    And your opinion is supported?

    Even a change of 0.24 days a year means that the orbit changed. A change is a change, even it is small.

    And 5.2422 from 365.2422 days is a change of about 1.4%, or about 1540 km/h (about 960 mph). Even if it is gradual (not by impact), it will cause massive floods (tsunami-like) on many coasts, and maybe even a series of volcanic eruptions. Hardly be noted? Only if the orbit changes by miracle, which does eliminate the consequences.

    There are several days of the Lord's wrath that have already happened. At least three of them: the destruction 0f Samaria, the first and second destruction of Jerusalem. Before you claim a prophecy is about future, check whether it has been fulfilled in the past ...

    Everything you number could be explained by volcanic eruption - or by the shot- and mid-term consequences of a nuclear war. No need of invoking a change in the orbit of the earth.
     
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