Breaking Free From Fundamentalism

[gurneyhalleck1]

“Released” you?

I would also add - whatever you do, if you haven't already - DO NOT READ that whole tollhouse vision by Theodora. My priest warned me away from it at first, but after a year and a half or so released me to read whatever I want. It was too soon for that, for me. Really upset my understanding and took a good 2-3 months to recover from and in the meantime is the best source of fuel for the enemy to use against me.

It's not meant to be literally understood anyway, and has gotten criticism on a few points. Really, please trust me if you want to avoid confusion, don't read that account.

God be with you.

 

[☦Marius☦]

“Released” you?

I think she was using a figure of speech. However many priests recommend rather extensively to converts not to read many monastic works until they have progressed to a certain level spiritually. Especially the ladder of divine ascent. I think its a good practice.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My priest told me he doesn’t like or recommend Father Seraphim Rose books or writings in any form. He never put a hold or lock on me, just advised against it. I thanked him, but bring my own man and an ornery curious guy, I read them anyway. It helped me so much!!! Father Seraphim’s book on Genesis was very instrumental. I’m glad I ignored the priestly advice. I was given other priestly advice about schools for my kids and my own job. Both times I followed my own spiritual instincts and prayers rather than the priest. I’m not a huge fan of the spiritual director thing. I’ve seen the guru experience blow in many people’s faces!!

I think she was using a figure of speech. However many priests recommend rather extensively to converts not to read many monastic works until they have progressed to a certain level spiritually. Especially the ladder of divine ascent. I think its a good practice.

 

[~Anastasia~]

“Released” you?

I think she was using a figure of speech. However many priests recommend rather extensively to converts not to read many monastic works until they have progressed to a certain level spiritually. Especially the ladder of divine ascent. I think its a good practice.

Exactly.

When I was a catechumen, Father recommended several books, which I read. I asked him about others. Some he approved, some he said I should wait on.

In my second year, after I'd been baptized, been to Confession a number of times, and he knew where I was and how I thought, he said I could read whatever I wanted.


(As it happens I started with my SF soon after and he was much stricter in fact, which chafed a bit at first. But after a couple-few years with him, he now just asks me periodically what I'm reading to keep tabs on it, and makes occasional suggestions.)

 

[~Anastasia~]

My priest told me he doesn’t like or recommend Father Seraphim Rose books or writings in any form. He never put a hold or lock on me, just advised against it. I thanked him, but bring my own man and an ornery curious guy, I read them anyway. It helped me so much!!! Father Seraphim’s book on Genesis was very instrumental. I’m glad I ignored the priestly advice. I was given other priestly advice about schools for my kids and my own job. Both times I followed my own spiritual instincts and prayers rather than the priest. I’m not a huge fan of the spiritual director thing. I’ve seen the guru experience blow in many people’s faces!!

Given what you have shared, in your case I think it was a good thing.

My priest is one I trust very much, but that took a little time. He generally offers a great deal of freedom.

I do have a SF, at my priest's suggesting, but that's because of a convoluted story involving me having a conversion experience and reading all sorts of books (including Catholic mystics and Orthodox hesychasts) and putting those things into practice for around 6 hours a day without stepping foot in a Church of any kind, compounded with a background in Eastern meditation. Let's just say - stuff can happen and you can get messed up doing that. I didn't care to risk that again but wanted to pursue prayer so - there is pretty much 100% agreement that oversight is needed.

Now I will say, there were some who would have taken the role that I did not accept them. I'm not a monk. I'm not under a vow of obedience. I can choose who to accept as a SF and I'm not under the same obligation to obey as a monastic would be. But having chosen him, and trusting him, it does make sense to do what he says, and there's blessing in that.

Besides, at this point I'm not being "told" to do anything more than keep my rule of prayer, and stay in contact. It seems all the other things I simply know to do and I do them, having kept at it during this time.

 

[☦Marius☦]

My priest told me he doesn’t like or recommend Father Seraphim Rose books or writings in any form. He never put a hold or lock on me, just advised against it. I thanked him, but bring my own man and an ornery curious guy, I read them anyway. It helped me so much!!! Father Seraphim’s book on Genesis was very instrumental. I’m glad I ignored the priestly advice. I was given other priestly advice about schools for my kids and my own job. Both times I followed my own spiritual instincts and prayers rather than the priest. I’m not a huge fan of the spiritual director thing. I’ve seen the guru experience blow in many people’s faces!!

Him telling you never to read Fr Seraphim is ridiculous. Some priests get so passionate about being anti tollhouse that they write off individuals completely as heretics. Personally I have no opinion on tollhouses and think they can be both useful and hurtful depending on how one uses the theology. But to say Fr Seraphim's works are off limits is too far. The only time a spiritual father is meant to really be a dictator is if you are a monastic. Anything other than that and you should listen to your priest to the point where you feel his personal issues are getting in the way. My parish priests are very liberal for my tastes. I love them but I am going to approach things much differently then them so I have to take that into account.

Do everything with discernment and prayer.

 

[gzt]

The recommendatiosn against Rose (and the controversy about him) aren't so much about tollhouses, but rather that he spent so much time on controversies that only matter to 1970s ROCOR while the rest of "World Orthodoxy" was concerned about more important things. Though, sure, there were bishops of ROCOR and the OCA that accused him of Nestorianism and egregiously misrepresenting the texts he cited re: tollhouses (and probably other things - he's not exactly a scholar). A big part of the recommendation against him is that some people are prone to see everything he writes as authoritative rather that one stream of thought within modern Russian Orthodoxy. Another part is taht he gets into some really weird stuff, especially as he's retreading turn-of-the-century Catholic reactionary polemics. I mean, some people would be extremely scandalized to see that he essentially says Protocols of the Elders of Zion may not be precisely what it says it is but is a witness to some true strain of Jewish thought.

 

[gzt]

Anyway, suffice it to say that people need to break free from fundamentalism within Orthodoxy as well. The temptation is there.