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BREAKING - Cardinal Burke: Pro-abortion politicians are in ‘apostasy,’ automatically excommunicated

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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    Whilst not mentioning him by name, the statement is likely aimed at pro-abortion, pro-LGBT, U.S. President Joe Biden.


    VATICAN CITY, April 8, 2021 (LifeSiteNews) –– Raymond Cardinal Burke, the former Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, has released a statement declaring that those who “publicly and obstinately violate the moral law” are in a state of apostasy, automatically excommunicated, and thus must not be permitted to receive Holy Communion.

    Cardinal Burke, a doctor of canon law, entitled his work, a “Statement on the Reception of Holy Communion by Those Who Persist in Public Grave Sin.”

    Continued below.
    BREAKING - Cardinal Burke: Pro-abortion politicians are in ‘apostasy,’ automatically excommunicated
     
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  2. zippy2006

    zippy2006 Dragonsworn

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    This is quite interesting, and will generate a great deal of discussion. The bulk of Burke's argument is that according to Canon 915 those persevering in grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion. This is a mainstream position that is not very controversial, and it would certainly bar Biden et al. from communion.

    But Burke makes a more controversial claim in #11, "Those who publicly and obstinately violate the moral law are, at least, in a state of apostasy, that is, they have effectively abandoned the faith by the obstinate refusal, in practice, to live in accord with fundamental truths of faith and morals (cf. can. 751)." The controversial claim Burke is making is that forms of public grave sin that politicians like Biden engage in make them apostates. I'm pretty sure the clamor regarding this statement from Burke will revolve around this issue of apostasy.

    Burke cites Canon 751 for his claim, which reads in part, "apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith." I don't see how someone like Biden could be said to have totally repudiated the Christian faith, and thus I do not see how he could be said to incur a latae sententiae penalty of excommunication via apostasy. In my opinion Burke is right in saying that folks like Biden should be refused communion, but wrong in saying that they have been excommunicated.
     
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  3. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Canon lawyer Ed Peters says automatic excommunication is pretty worthless. I agree. If they are going to be excommunicating anybody they should actually go through the effort of making it official. Problem in the abortion supporting politicians is no bishop with relevant jurisdiction has the sense or the spine to do it. So the politicians get to pretend everything is fine.
     
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  4. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It’s high time. Naming Biden in the first instance might be inflammatory.

    Vatican can easily send concerns to Bidens bishop and priest. Indeed can reassign them if they won’t.
     
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  5. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One of those bishops is newly minted Cardinal Wilton Gregory of Washington DC, who has said he won't be stopping Joe Biden from communion. So I doubt pope Francis will be reassigning Wilton Gregory after entrusting him with being a cardinal.

    I wish pope Francis would. But I doubt he will. Cardinal Gregory seems too well tied to McCarrick and Wuerl. Shouldn't have been made cardinal nor archbishop of Washington DC.
     
  6. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It was more nuanced than that: he said when asked "I don't want to go to the table with a gun on the table first." .

    As if to say he will try persuasion first?

    I’ve remembered who he was! A guy who spent millions on his residence! How dare he?
     
  7. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't particularly care how much he spent on a building. I do care about his friends, Those are not savory fellows.

    Will he 'try persuasion first'? If Biden doesn't see the light will Gregory back up persuasion with something else? Has nobody tried to persuade Biden yet?
     
  8. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is he past being capable of reason?
    I seriously suspect him of Alzheimer’s.
    To me - he is a puppet whose strings are pulled from the shadows.
    Can he resist them if they push him where he does not want to go?
     
  9. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

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    Cardinal Burke is based, if only more American Catholics listened to him.
     
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  10. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry...is there a typo in there? "based"? Don't understand?
     
  11. Azureknight 773

    Azureknight 773 IXA the Knight Kamen Rider CF Ambassadors

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    I might not be an American but as far as I am concerned as a Catholic, pro-abortion stance is absolutely wrong. Sure there is the period of mercy for repentance but there is a time limit for that. If I were to be a patriarch of a parish there as a Cardinal, then I would do my very best mounting enough courage and will to excommunicate all Catholic politicians in the span of 3 years who do such a thing. They would be excommunicated LIVE on TV and make it eternal so that they will forever be barred from ever entering the Church or what have you to set an example that nobody is above the Church but Christ and the Holy Ones.
     
  12. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with the excommunications.
    I dont think live TV is a great medium to do so.
    Simple statements should make it sound regrettable..

    "regrettably the church cannot condone either abortion or those who do condone it particularly those in a position of political power to change policy. As a result we have reluctantly taken the only choice available to us, which is to suspend communication for any who do this , in the hope they will reconsider the seriousness of the step they have taken" Not even name a name. The person will be well aware, and media will no doubt guess who they are.


     
  13. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Biden?

    He seemed for many years now to ‘want to go’ in the direction of abortion. So I don’t think we can say that was a result of the senility that is manifest now.

    He is a puppet now, but he chose his position on abortion with a functional will and intellect.

    Can he be personally redeemed? Maybe, with lots of prayer. But such a change of heart would just insure that he would be found unfit for duty and we’d get president Harris. The full force of the government of the USA will still come down in favor of abortion. Elections have consequences.
     
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  14. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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  15. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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  16. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Cardinal Burke has laid it out well what the responsibility if bishops is. He laid out the truth. It is on the individual bishops to follow that truth, or ignore that truth, or openly dissent from that truth. It is on the bishop of Rome to deal with those bishops who ignore that truth or dissent from that truth. The bishop of Rome could start by recognizing that cardinal Burke is right. Cardinal Burke has no authority on his own, other than that of one bishop, even if he speaks the truth. It's up to the resident bishops and up to the pope. We'll see what direction this goes. Souls are in the balance.
     
  17. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It’s also interesting to me that part of The message of the angel at fatima was about:
    “ the outrages, sacrileges, and indifferences by which He Himself is offended”
    So clearly God is offended.
    I love to sit at cabeco, where that apparition took place : it is a very special place to me. It doesn’t get the people that the cova da iria does.
     
  18. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

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    It's a slang term, basically it means "when you agree with something; or when you want to recognize someone for being themselves, i.e. courageous and unique or not caring what others think. Especially common in online political slang."
     
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  19. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021 at 7:14 AM
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  20. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    The bottom line is Cardinal Gregory is a known liberal and Pope Francis appointed him so everything else is a moot point. There will be no denying President Biden the host.

    The Vatican’s main concern was naming a black Cardinal at the expense of anything else.
     
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